Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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lrs68 said:


I only read they accepted the Gift that God offered to them. That they were not kidnapped, forced like victims to accept, but rejoiced to accept the Precious Gift of Salvation from God Who gave it to them.
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Spoken by a guy who very obviously has never considered himself a victim of sin -- sin that was forced upon him and the rest of the human race by CV5's sinful superhero Adam.

Thanks for you revealing your mindset... These brief moments of honesty among you FWers are all too rare.
 
Rufus said:
No, I did not believe "in the EVIDENCE".
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Do tell.....:unsure:
I guess that the the great cloud of witnesses and massive miracles were pretty much a waste of time effort and ink. Not to mention the martyrdoms.
 
cv5 said:
For you it supposedly did. It took a kidnapping and lobotomy, dragging you kicking and screaming to a shotgun wedding to marry Someone you otherwise would have found repulsive.

For me it took honest assessment of massive evidence and witnesses, then taking Christ at His word about my need to seize upon the offer provided in His completed work, and then saying "I do" to His marriage proposal, thereby entering into the covenant.

BTW, I do NOT see kidnappings, lobotomies and shotgun weddings well represented in the assembly of the heroes of faith of Hebrews 11. Or in the spectacle of the consummation of the Mosaic covenant. Or anywhere else in Scripture for that matter.
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When all else fails, let's go back to kidnapping, lobotomies and shotgun weddings! :eek:
 
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cv5 said:
For you it supposedly did. It took a kidnapping and lobotomy, dragging you kicking and screaming to a shotgun wedding to marry Someone you otherwise would have found repulsive.

For me it took honest assessment of massive evidence and witnesses, then taking Christ at His word about my need to seize upon the offer provided in His completed work, and then saying "I do" to His marriage proposal, thereby entering into the covenant.

BTW, I do NOT see kidnappings, lobotomies and shotgun weddings well represented in the assembly of the heroes of faith of Hebrews 11. Or in the spectacle of the consummation of the Mosaic covenant. Or anywhere else in Scripture for that matter.
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Why would you expect to see your exceedingly lame, juvenile, asinine and endless straw men in scripture? Do you really believe that God thinks like YOU do? You're that arrogant and proud?
 
cv5 said:
Do tell.....:unsure:
I guess that the the great cloud of witnesses and massive miracles were pretty much a waste of time effort and ink. Not to mention the martyrdoms.
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Not at all. They all eloquently speak to God's rescuing grace!
 
BillyBob said:
When all else fails, let's go back to kidnapping, lobotomies and shotgun weddings! :eek:
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It never fails to accurately describe Reformed soteriology. Because you never fail to confirm that it is essentially correct. Ceaselessly in practically every post.

Fortunately for me, coddling this bizarre religious system is not my problem. It's yours.
 
Cameron143 said:
Nope. I believed what my parents said. Should have read the verse I gave. Seeing a person dressed as Santa may have reinforced my belief, but it wasn't the cause.
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Doesn't matter how you dress it up you believe because you chose to believe.
 
Rufus said:
No, I did not believe "in the EVIDENCE". I believed because of God's power working within me. He made me willing in the day of HIS power -- not my power! Get up to speed on the unilateral New Covenant promises someday.
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Did you feel the power so you believed it was God?
You still chose and confirmed it within yourself.
 
Rufus said:
Not at all. They all eloquently speak to God's rescuing grace!
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That YOU say nobody can or ever did believe. INCLUDING YOURSELF by you own clear unambiguous confession.

Rufus said:
No, I did not believe "in the EVIDENCE"

Trying harder simply won't work. So don't bother.
 
NightTwister said:
No one here believes anyone was kidnapped or forced, but you must keep bearing false witness to make your argument plausible.
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I didn't say anyone made that claim. I made that post because criminals always use the excuse someone made me do it.
 
Rufus said:
Spoken by a guy who very obviously has never considered himself a victim of sin -- sin that was forced upon him and the rest of the human race by CV5's sinful superhero Adam.

Thanks for you revealing your mindset... These brief moments of honesty among you FWers are all too rare.
Click to expand...
I am Jewish and raised understanding and knowing about the Fall all of my life so it's not a victim mentality but just how it is and you need God to overcome it.
 
Rufus said:
Spoken by a guy who very obviously has never considered himself a victim of sin -- sin that was forced upon him and the rest of the human race by CV5's sinful superhero Adam.

Thanks for you revealing your mindset... These brief moments of honesty among you FWers are all too rare.
Click to expand...
So you say you are the "victim" of sin do you? And it's all Adam's fault?

OK, all of your "rage" posts are making more sense now....:unsure:
 
Genez said:
Define Irresistible Grace....

And, make sense of it when you do.
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A kidnapping by definition is not resistible. And it always is a criminal enterprise.

Grace by definition is always resistable.
And it is always a righteous enterprise.

Act 7:51 - “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.
 
lrs68 said:
Doesn't matter how you dress it up you believe because you chose to believe.
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Not sure you understand how belief is formed.

If a new idea is presented to me, I run it through the filter of the mind and assimilate it and contrast it with my current beliefs that I already hold. I also send it through the filter of my heart and the emotions there. Then I either believe it or not.

What I don't do is make a conscious choice. It either agrees with whatever is already present or it does not. I never say to myself, "Self, should we believe this or not." I simply believe it or I don't.

I may make a choice to voice the belief or not. I may make a choice to investigate further and get more information, but once all these things are done, I either believe it or I don't.
 
Magenta said:
Some of us have been saying the very same thing for months...

Freewill.png

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
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True and no offense intended - and hope that I did so too, but it was nice to see another scripture clearly and specifically refute their bedrock claim about being able to choose based upon their free will.
 
cv5 said:
That YOU say nobody can or ever did believe. INCLUDING YOURSELF by you own clear unambiguous confession.

Rufus said:
No, I did not believe "in the EVIDENCE"

Trying harder simply won't work. So don't bother.
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A confession isn't a choice to believe. It is merely a recitation of what you already believe. You can make the choice to confess. You can't make a confession the cause of your belief.
 
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cv5 said:
So you say you are the "victim" of sin do you? And it's all Adam's fault?

OK, all of your "rage" posts are making more sense now....:unsure:
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We are a victim in respect to the corruption in the flesh, Jn.3:6 but how our minds react to that corruption in the light of God's grace, is our own doing. (grace always precedes and initiates) We choose to sin of our own will. In most instances, it is due to our ignorance so this is why Peter tells us to grow in the knowledge (gnosis - ie. data input) of God's word. 2Peter 3:18
His light dispels the darkness (of mind) and His grace (power and will) controls the weakened flesh in the unbeliever that he may choose freely. In the believer, we have the Spirit indwelling the body permanently to do this job of controlling the flesh, yet the (believers) mind that sets itself on the flesh is in no better position than an unbeliever who rejects the grace given.

Ultimately the Cross proves sin is not the heart of the issue but the evil desire to reject God's word for one's own.
 
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