Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Jordon]

There is no "we can do" implied by God regarding belief - that is an incorrect statement on your part - you focus on effect but ignore cause. Apparently, you don't understand the intent of the verses you've referenced, understand the nature of true belief, or understand who truly believes and why/how they do. That is, true belief comes only as God's gift and not by man's choice. The below and other like verses have been posted to you and those of your ilk numerous times in the past yet for some inexplicable reason they are always ignored as though they didn't exist, but they aren't optional. Next time you feel the need to post on the implications of true belief, first take them into consideration and only after you do so, then post accordingly.

[Phl 1:29 KJV]
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

[2Pe 1:1 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

[1Co 2:5 KJV]
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

[Jhn 10:26 KJV]
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

[1Pe 1:21 KJV]
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV]
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

and John 2:19

There is no "we can do" implied by God regarding belief - that is an incorrect statement on your part - you focus on effect but ignore cause. Apparently, you don't understand the intent of the verses you've referenced, understand the nature of true belief, or understand who truly believes and why/how they do. That is, true belief comes only as God's gift and not by man's choice. The below and other like verses have been posted to you and those of your ilk numerous times in the past yet for some inexplicable reason they are always ignored as though they didn't exist, but they aren't optional. Next time you feel the need to post on the implications of true belief, first take them into consideration and only after you do so, then post accordingly.

[Phl 1:29 KJV]
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

[2Pe 1:1 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

[1Co 2:5 KJV]
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

[Jhn 10:26 KJV]
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

[1Pe 1:21 KJV]
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV]
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

and 1 John 2:19. They thought they believed and other thought they believed but they did things to like no doubt like rule over sin from time to time, but they did not continue in there faith as they never truly believed.


"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might be shown that they are not all of us.

 

[lrs68]

There is no "we can do" implied by God regarding belief - that is an incorrect statement on your part - you focus on effect but ignore cause. Apparently, you don't understand the intent of the verses you've referenced, understand the nature of true belief, or understand who truly believes and why/how they do. That is, true belief comes only as God's gift and not by man's choice. The below and other like verses have been posted to you and those of your ilk numerous times in the past yet for some inexplicable reason they are always ignored as though they didn't exist, but they aren't optional. Next time you feel the need to post on the implications of true belief, first take them into consideration and only after you do so, then post accordingly.

[Phl 1:29 KJV]
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

[2Pe 1:1 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

[1Co 2:5 KJV]
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

[Jhn 10:26 KJV]
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

[1Pe 1:21 KJV]
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV]
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

It is indeed the Works of God that I believe in God but if I don't want to believe what God is making me believe then I will reject God.

There's millions of people testifying they once went to church, heard the Gospel preached, and now don't believe because they took the works of God and reasoned them to be false.

We have 2 of today's leading scholars of the Bible who were Reformed preachers and now AGNOSTIC because they were able to reject the works of God.

You just hate facts and the truth.
You live in denial.

 

[rogerg]

and John 2:19
and 1 John 2:19. They thought they believed and other thought they believed but they did things to like no doubt like rule over sin from time to time, but they did not continue in there faith as they never truly believed.


"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might be shown that they are not all of us.

Absolutely correct. Great addition, thanks.

 

[cv5]

There is no "we can do" implied by God regarding belief - that is an incorrect statement on your part - you focus on effect but ignore cause. Apparently, you don't understand the intent of the verses you've referenced, understand the nature of true belief, or understand who truly believes and why/how they do. That is, true belief comes only as God's gift and not by man's choice. The below and other like verses have been posted to you and those of your ilk numerous times in the past yet for some inexplicable reason they are always ignored as though they didn't exist, but they aren't optional. Next time you feel the need to post on the implications of true belief, first take them into consideration and only after you do so, then post accordingly.

[Phl 1:29 KJV]
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

[2Pe 1:1 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

[1Co 2:5 KJV]
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

[Jhn 10:26 KJV]
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

[1Pe 1:21 KJV]
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV]
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Yes, there they are, the typical abstract collage of passages. All of which speak nothing to support the determinists wrong-headed and woefully ignorant religious prevarications.

All things considered, this determinism nonsense can be categorized as Kafka-esque philosophic nihilistic absurdity, marinated in Christian terminology to make the poison less bitter

 

[rogerg]

It is indeed the Works of God that I believe in God but if I don't want to believe what God is making me believe then I will reject God.

There's millions of people testifying they once went to church, heard the Gospel preached, and now don't believe because they took the works of God and reasoned them to be false.

We have 2 of today's leading scholars of the Bible who were Reformed preachers and now AGNOSTIC because they were able to reject the works of God.

You just hate facts and the truth.
You live in denial.

Nope. It is not " that ye might believe" but "that ye believe". When God gives belief to someone, they believe, period - choice not available nor possible - choice not in that verse.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[rogerg]

Yes, there they are, the typical abstract collage of passages. All of which speak nothing to support the determinists wrong-headed and woefully ignorant religious prevarications.

All things considered, this determinism nonsense can be categorized as Kafka-esque philosophic nihilistic absurdity, marinated in Christian terminology to make the poison less bitter

Ridiculous. Again, you clearly demonstrate your lack of biblical comprehension.

 

[Magenta]

So you believe the sentiment displayed in this post is evidence of doing good to all. Smh and your frequent eye rolls evidences adherence to the verses you quoted. In the very post you admonish the behavior of others, you do the same thing you charge others with. Perhaps you should first practice what you preach. Jesus began first to do, then teach. Also, I haven't commented on anyone's eternal estate. Above my pay grade.

She entered this thread with a slew of false accusations and eye rolls.

While pontificating about how Christians should and should not behave.

 

[Magenta]

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have
continued with us. But they went out, that it might be shown that they are not all of us.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.

 

[lrs68]

Nope. It is not " that ye might believe" but "that ye believe". When God gives belief to someone, they believe, period - choice not available nor possible - choice not in that verse.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The Verse says [[((that ye believe))]] it doesn't say everyone will believe only that ye believe.

 

[cv5]

Ridiculous. Again, you clearly demonstrate your lack of biblical comprehension.

Lump leavening is not my style. For others, it is a lifelong obsession.

 

[rogerg]

The Verse says [[((that ye believe))]] it doesn't say everyone will believe only that ye believe.

Correct. It is not saying that everyone will believe; only those that God works His work upon will truly believe. Not everyone can or will believe - only those chosen by God and those He makes them to believe.

 

[lrs68]

Nope. It is not " that ye might believe" but "that ye believe". When God gives belief to someone, they believe, period - choice not available nor possible - choice not in that verse.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

How about we LOOK AT THE VERSE IN CONTEXT and not singled out like you always falsely do:

29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform?

31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”

32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.


Look what Jesus said in Verse 35
whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

Whoever comes!

100% Choice!

 

[Genez]

yeah ... a lot of people believe in the existence of God yet do not believe the gospel.

I'm thinking that the times you heard the gospel yet did not believe were times God sent faithful believers to plant / water ... then God gave increase when you believed the gospel ... same with me.
.

Believing there is the beginning stage of God's drawing.
It is sometimes referred to as "God consciousness."

It is what those in Romans 1:18-23 were entered into by God - and then invented ways to reject what they had received and known.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, ​

who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, ​

because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—​

his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, ​

so that people are without excuse.​

​

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking ​

became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools ​

and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds ​

and animals and reptiles.​

Evangelism is harvesting what God has already caused to be ready for the picking.


.......

 

[lrs68]

Correct. It is not saying that everyone will believe; only those that God works His work upon will truly believe. Not everyone can or will believe - only those chosen by God and those He makes them to believe.

How about we LOOK AT THE VERSE IN CONTEXT and not singled out like you always falsely do:

29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform?

31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”

32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.


Look what Jesus said in Verse 35
whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

Whoever comes!

100% Choice!

 

[Magenta]

Correct. It is not saying that everyone will believe; only those that God works His work upon will truly
believe. Not everyone can or will believe - only those chosen by God and those He makes them to believe.

Those He foreknew, called, and justified, making His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the
knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ... knowledge which the world can neither receive
nor comprehend, and FWers largely and quite massively fail to understand with their self-exalting doctrine
which denies a plethora of Scriptures, causing them to reject, contradict and rewrite what they don't like in the Bible.

 

[rogerg]

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.


Look what Jesus said in Verse 35
whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

Whoever comes!

100% Choice!

Again, it is effect that you focus upon in your reply rather than cause. No one can come to Christ but that the Father draw him

[Jhn 6:44 KJV] 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (to draw, drag off metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[cv5]

Correct. It is not saying that everyone will believe; only those that God works His work upon will truly believe. Not everyone can or will believe - only those chosen by God and those He makes them to believe.

A super-determinist religious fantasy.....

Act 17:26
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Luk 11:9
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Luk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 

[Magenta]

Again, it is effect that you focus upon in your reply rather than cause. No one can come to Christ but that the Father draw him

[Jhn 6:44 KJV] 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (to draw, drag off metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And those given to Jesus by God will come to Him.

It does not say, are given the option to decide not to.

Like one of our self-proclaimed scholars likes to say, they were convinced and then got to choose whether to believe.
They are so blind they do not see what a ridiculous logic fail that is, because if one is convinced you already believe.

 

[cv5]

Believing there is the beginning stage of God's drawing.
It is sometimes referred to as "God consciousness."

It is what those in Romans 1:18-23 were entered into by God - and then invented ways to reject what they had received and known.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, ​

who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, ​

because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—​

his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, ​

so that people are without excuse.​

​

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking ​

became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools ​

and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds ​

and animals and reptiles.​

Evangelism is harvesting what God has already caused to be ready for the picking.


.......

"so that people are without excuse."

The super-determinists are full of excuses. An endless parade of one after another.
Satan's likewise proffers a vast array of excuses for his willful transgressions.

Neither will be effective in the end.

 

[Genez]

Seems that you decided to reply to a single sentence rather than the entire post.
If that is typical, then there is no need for me to answer your questions in the future.......

When someone gets a speeding ticket?

He will get it for where he was clocked over the allowed speed limit.
He does not tell the officer to also note all the times he was within the limit or he will not pay it.

The officer addresses only what was done wrong.

What I did?
Was to address where you went over the speed limit and was wrong in what you claimed.
I was not about to comment on the other twenty miles of road you had travelled on.

We all need to grow up... In Christ.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, ​

rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that ​

the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every ​

good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17​

​

That says that along the way, we all will be rebuked and corrected at given times.
That's how we grow up in the Lord.

We are not to make excuses when so treated.

God has something to say about those who refuse corrections.

Proverbs 12:1 https://biblehub.com/proverbs/12-1.htm



grace and peace....