No. I'm finishing the argument to its logical conclusion. If the logic wasn't working, crickets wouldn't have been the result.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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You do have the ability to apply discernment from scripture. You do it i do it. You have a differnt doctrine then me and vise versa. If no one ever applied thier own thinking to what scripture did or didnt mean there would be no differnt denominations. I mean heck the 10k post here and the 10k before it and the 10k before it are proof that is not the case. We all get slightly differnt meanings when we read and think about what is written. But you think and reason about scripture and then come up with ideas and opinions that are not directly stated in the passage just as I do. Its not a bad thing unless it's bat crap looney and you are trying to teach it haha.
Good afternoon, What's yo
I also believe there isn't any question that can't be answered.
Since we last talked I asked a question, well just a follow up from that.
What's your views on all mankind being born with a heart of stone.
What's your views on all mankind being born under a covenant of judgement including Adam and eve.
What's your views on one of all mankind acts of saving grace from God, is being born with a heart of stone is not quite as severe as being born with a hardened heart.
Lastly what's your views God has decreed a covenant of Judgement before the foundations of the earth for all mankind
I believe God has included everything he needs to include, which includes nothing being hidden from us.
I also believe there isn't any question that can't be answered.
Since we last talked I asked a question, well just a follow up from that.
What's your views on all mankind being born with a heart of stone.
What's your views on all mankind being born under a covenant of judgement including Adam and eve.
What's your views on one of all mankind acts of saving grace from God, is being born with a heart of stone is not quite as severe as being born with a hardened heart.
Lastly what's your views God has decreed a covenant of Judgement before the foundations of the earth for all mankind
Sometimes not awnsering a question is the smartest approach to the argument lol
Getting back to actual reality (and departing from @Cameron143 's
endless hypothetical fantasies), we recognize that @studier is correct in stating that indeed, God's power to save is inherent in the gospel, needing no other preconditions. But, what @Cameron143 fails to address (in order that he might become rooted in actual reality) is the following (not to mention vast swaths of other Biblical precepts as well):
That God bequeaths men with objective free will, whereby and wherewith God may be justified in the end.
In other words, the volition of man cannot be removed from the justification equation.
[Act 6:10 KJV]
And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.
[Act 6:11 KJV]
Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and [against] God.
[Act 7:51 KJV]
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.
[Rom 13:2 KJV]
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
[2Ti 3:8 KJV]
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
***************************************************************************************************
[Psa 51:4 KJV]
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.
[Isa 43:9 KJV]
Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, [It is] truth.
[Luk 7:29 KJV]
And all the people that heard [him], and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
[Luk 18:14 KJV]
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
[Rom 3:4 KJV]
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
[Rom 3:24 KJV]
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[1Co 4:4 KJV]
For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
[Gal 2:17 KJV]
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Around here, most times not answering @Cameron143 "questions" (if you want to call them that, as this appellation is in his case mostly faulty) is by far the best use of your time. Same goes for several other posters.
Why bother sowing seed on hard ground? Every kernel will be devoured by the birds as you well know.
One of those people that day in Acts 7 listening to Stephen preach the Gospel and watch him be stoned to death ended up writing 2\3 of the New Testament. We know him as Paul but that day he was called Saul. So ultimately at least ONE PERSON if not several others were later on convicted and saved.
Its not a bad thing unless it's bat crap looney and you are trying to teach it haha.
No one has said man doesn't have volition; only that it isn't free. One is either a slave to sin or righteousness, and one's nature inevitably impacts one's choices. How then is the will free?Getting back to actual reality (and departing from @Cameron143 's
But, what @Cameron143 fails to address (in order that he might become rooted in actual reality) is the following (not to mention vast swaths of other Biblical precepts as well):
That God bequeaths men with objective free will, whereby and wherewith God may be justified in the end.
In other words, the volition of man cannot be removed from the justification equation.
[Act 6:10 KJV]
And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.
[Act 6:11 KJV]
Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and [against] God.
[Act 7:51 KJV]
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.
[Rom 13:2 KJV]
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
[2Ti 3:8 KJV]
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
***************************************************************************************************
[Psa 51:4 KJV]
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.
[Isa 43:9 KJV]
Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, [It is] truth.
[Luk 7:29 KJV]
And all the people that heard [him], and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
[Luk 18:14 KJV]
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
[Rom 3:4 KJV]
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
[Rom 3:24 KJV]
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[1Co 4:4 KJV]
For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
[Gal 2:17 KJV]
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
If your arguments could stand alone you wouldn't feel the need to impugn my character. I wonder what is impacting your choice to do so.
There are a ton of warnings about this both OT and NT.
[Psa 95:8 KJV]
Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, [and] as [in] the day of temptation in the wilderness:
[Num 14:22 KJV]
Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;
John 11 25:26
"I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die". Here, belief is presented as the condition for receiving new and eternal life from Jesus.
Apart from any foundation in scripture, Reformed/Calvinists separate life into two components.
They do this to make their doctrine fit with verses that contradict their theory.
The big fail on this theory is that one gets "something" regeneration in order to get Christ Jesus.
So effectively in this Reformed system, you get life apart from Christ, then you are given faith and then you get Christ.
Obviously wrong!!
Regenerative life (born again) is eternal so therefore it is cannot be some separate dose of something in order to receive salvation.
"I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die". Here, belief is presented as the condition for receiving new and eternal life from Jesus.
Apart from any foundation in scripture, Reformed/Calvinists separate life into two components.
They do this to make their doctrine fit with verses that contradict their theory.
The big fail on this theory is that one gets "something" regeneration in order to get Christ Jesus.
So effectively in this Reformed system, you get life apart from Christ, then you are given faith and then you get Christ.
Obviously wrong!!
Regenerative life (born again) is eternal so therefore it is cannot be some separate dose of something in order to receive salvation.
They (the FWer) calls being taken captive to do the will of the devil, "free will." They have the man who is
blinded by the god of this age, seeing before he can receive or comprehend the things to which he is
inherently opposed as a God-hater, and deciding to come into the light when Scripture says he will not.
More of your dishonesty. Does it ever end? Christ makes us alive while we are dead. You FWers deny this
has been said to you many times. You are so dishonest you tell people to go preach in cemeteries and
then you lie about the fact that you conflate physical and spiritual death. Where is your integrity?
You have the incurably wicked heart deciding to believe something he cannot even
understand, and to which he is opposed. Your theology is senseless and illogical.
Ephesians 2:4-7 ~ Because of His great love for us, God, Who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. :
The inherent power of the gospel breaks the power of Satan in all cases.
Then comes the matter of volition: rejecting or accepting.
[Mar 7:9 KJV]
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
[Luk 7:30 KJV]
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
[Luk 7:31 KJV]
And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
[Luk 7:32 KJV]
They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
**************************************************************************************************
What master WILL you serve?
[Jos 24:15 KJV]
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
You often attempt to establish a premise with other than facts. "unto" is an archaic word not used much anymore, and it has more range of meaning than the meaning you're attempting to establish as your premise. I'm translating the Greek word "eis" used in the Text.
Your last statement is not Rom1:16. The power inherent in God's Gospel confronts every hearer. The result can be belief for salvation or unbelief and no salvation.
Talking more doesn’t prove your logic - it just means you kept talking. Shifting to another verse isn’t a conclusion; it’s a pivot away from an argument that wasn’t holding
Supposed "crickets" are the result of you "answering questions" that you, and you alone have the answers to.
In other words, these are not "honest questions", they are "set ups". A frame job.
This is your standard operating procedure. And it is.....unrighteous IMO.