Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Jesus' words in John 15 verse 19 and John 14 verse 17 ~ If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.

 

[Kroogz]

Jesus' words in John 15 verse 19 and John 14 verse 17 ~ If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.

So .........He sent us His Son and the Holy Spirit.

Why can't you get past the first part?

 

[Magenta]

1 Corinthians 3 v 19-21a, 1 Corinthians 1 v 19 ~ The wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness.” And again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” Therefore, stop boasting in men. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

 

[Magenta]

2 Corinthians 4 verses 5-7 ~ We do not proclaim ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Now we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this surpassingly great power is from God and not from us.

 

[Magenta]

2 Corinthians 5 verses 4-5 While we are in this tent, we groan under our burdens, because we do not wish to be unclothed but clothed, so that our mortality may be swallowed up by life. And it is God Who has prepared us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a pledge of what is to come.

 

[cv5]

The Lord Jesus Christ finished sin. He Died For all. A little child is safe in Gods hands.

Nobody is safe in reformed/calvie/tulip theory.

Right. There are determinists populating this thread that have stated very clearly that babies and children are condemned to the lake of fire without remedy. The belief is that they were intentionally created evil by God for this very reason. Chronister calls it the day care in hell doctrine.

Adults too of course. Everybody in fact. Literally everybody.......other than THEMSELVES.

I wonder if coddling such a horrific doctrine negatively affects the mind, soul and spirit?
I mean just listen to Sproul Jr. That was some kind if bizarre diatribe regarding that 10 year old girl.

 

[cv5]

You know.

Yes sir they most certainly do. By now for sure.
And you know what that means.....

 

[studier]

Romans1:16 elaborated translation as underlined.

“The gospel is the power of God toward salvation, benefiting everyone who is believing, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek.”

@Cameron143 Statement 1: “The gospel is only the power of God to those who come to believe.”

Response: No—the gospel IS the power of God. It possesses God’s power in itself, independent of human belief. Whenever someone hears the gospel, they are confronted with God’s power.

@Cameron143 Statement 2: “No power is exercised toward those who do not come to believe.”

Response: Again, the power of God is inherent in the gospel. Whenever someone hears the gospel, its inherent power is being exercised in its presentation. If unbelievers reject it, that inherent power does not benefit them, but its power remains unchanged.

 

[NightTwister]

@NightTwister

Is this little girl safe in your theology?

Because the BIBLE AND HIS WORD unequivocally has this little girl as safe.

If you knew doctrine, you would KNOW.

Only a calvie would "Laugh" at this truth.

You can't handle the truth.

 

[Jordon]

ok ... just checking ...

in Hebrew 11:4, God tells us Abel obtained witness that he was righteous ...

in 2:5 Peter God tells us Noah was a preacher of righteousness ...

so, yes, in agreement there were others before Abraham who God considered righteous.





mankind either believes or suppresses the truth in unrighteousness ... and Heb 4:12 tells us it is the Word of God which is the discerner between the thoughts and intents of the heart.
.

But why and how did the lord count moses act of believing as righteous.


Why is there so few instances of faith being mentioned in the old t

We discussed exodus now genesis

The pattern is, God relays a message on people hearts but yet only a few are mentioned as being thought of more highly.


What is in that message that lets God decide what he decides the way he does, when he says none is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God

Why so many people there all human.

Surely out of all those people you would think some more could have had there acts counted as righteous.

I do believe this is where enabling grace is sufficient. God is able to decide that not one is righteous, because his message, was not only a private message but also his will is enabling grace is within that message.

But why are we told that not one is righteous in Romans

When the act of believing of Moses and Noah was countrd.as righteous.

Don't you think it's the lords own righteousness that is being counted in there hearts and not there own

 

[Kroogz]

You can't handle the truth.

I know the truth.

This little girl is safe in Gods hands. 100%.

Every Christian worth his salt knows it.

Every calvie.......not so much.

 

[cv5]

Agree, I think the lame effort to defend Sproul Jr. on here really showed me how tragic it is.
Not denouncing this idea that a 10 year old girl earned (murder, torture, rape) her judgement.
Sick, truly sick.

Yes, the willful obfuscation brings it to another level.

The level of work and insight by you, @studier @reneweddaybyday @Mem and @Pilgrimshope @Kroogz to denounce this
NON - Good News is far way and above anything they have been able to produce.

I certainly see now how these two soteriologies are diametrically opposed to each other,
only one really proclaims the true GOOD News coming from a God who IS Love, Light and Truth and does not play favorites with the gift of salvation.

The level of work and insight by you, @studier @reneweddaybyday @Mem and @Pilgrimshope @Kroogz to denounce this
NON - Good News is far way and above anything they have been able to produce.

Your efforts are likewise astute, scholarly and penetrating, and have boosted the Spiritual IQ around here immensely.
And I totally agree. It really wasn't much of a fight......went something like this....

Jdg 14:6
And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and he tore the lion apart as one would have torn apart a young goat, though he had nothing in his hand. But he did not tell his father or his mother what he had done.

 

[HeIsHere]

You can't handle the truth.

Typical, that is the very thing that Calvinists are inculcated with, that they are able to deal with the hard truths of scripture.

In fact this is what holds people back from breaking away from the indoctrination, but some do and then they realize that it was a manipulation tactic by the sect.

All this stuff is well documented, since more and more people are leaving, in some cases more like escaping the sect.

 

[Magenta]

Response: No—the gospel IS the power of God. It possesses God’s power in itself, independent of human belief.
Whenever someone hears the gospel, they are confronted with God’s power.

Not everybody hears. His sheep hear. Not the goats. Not the children of wrath.

Back to wondering how many agree that hearing must include comprehension.

How many times does someone hear without comprehension?

I heard it that way for 50 years. People hearing without comprehension does nothing.

That is the way the natural man, the unregenerated person, hears.

That is, according to Scripture, which you deny. You prefer to rewrite those parts.

 

[Cameron143]

Romans1:16 elaborated translation as underlined.

“The gospel is the power of God toward salvation, benefiting everyone who is believing, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek.”

@Cameron143 Statement 1: “The gospel is only the power of God to those who come to believe.”

Response: No—the gospel IS the power of God. It possesses God’s power in itself, independent of human belief. Whenever someone hears the gospel, they are confronted with God’s power.

@Cameron143 Statement 2: “No power is exercised toward those who do not come to believe.”

Response: Again, the power of God is inherent in the gospel. Whenever someone hears the gospel, its inherent power is being exercised in its presentation. If unbelievers reject it, that inherent power does not benefit them, but its power remains unchanged.

If the power was inherent, it would necessarily be experienced by all. The truth is that when God's word goes forth, it always accomplishes what it is sent forth to accomplish. This being the case, when someone is saved as a result of sending forth the word, this was God's purpose. When it doesn't, God's purpose couldn't have been salvation.
So in the first case, the power of God was indeed exercised because the outcome is belief. In the second case, are you suggesting God exercised His power so the individual wouldn't believe?

Back to the drawing board.

 

[HeIsHere]

The level of work and insight by you, @studier @reneweddaybyday @Mem and @Pilgrimshope @Kroogz to denounce this
NON - Good News is far way and above anything they have been able to produce.

Your efforts are likewise astute, scholarly and penetrating, and have boosted the Spiritual IQ around here immensely.
And I totally agree. It really wasn't much of a fight......went something like this....

Jdg 14:6
And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and he tore the lion apart as one would have torn apart a young goat, though he had nothing in his hand. But he did not tell his father or his mother what he had done.

If we could free one person it will be worth it for sure, maybe not today or tomorrow, but hopefully soon so they can enjoy the TRUE gracious God.

Even Calvinism "lite" never gave me a moments peace, I really do not know how they come on here day after day and defend it.
It is the antithesis of the Good News.

 

[HeIsHere]

If the power was inherent, it would necessarily be experienced by all.

Wrong, people have the ability to accept or reject/suppress.

 

[Magenta]

hopefully soon so they can enjoy the TRUE gracious God.

Yes, the one you complained multiple times about how unfair He is?

The one Who reveals Himself to people so they may know Him, which is something you mock and scoff at?

 

[Kroogz]

Not everybody hears.

Back to wondering how many agree that hearing must include comprehension.

How many times does someone hear without comprehension?

I heard it that way for 50 years.

So........The people who hear it for 50 1/2 years are shut out?

You were perishing and heard foolishness for 50 years.......NOTHING excluded you like you exclude others.

 

[Magenta]

Wrong, people have the ability to accept or reject/suppress.

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.