Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

Even with YOUR FLAWED description of Regeneration you have God making the person awakened (you use alive) from the process of Hearing the Gospel preached.

I am saying that the manifesting God does to all humanity individuality when they understand God is God is the awakening. Now at this moment of being awakened is when a person is able to understand they're accepting/rejecting God. Being Awakened allows a Free Will choice being made.

Don't you know that "sleep" or "asleep" are metaphors for death? So, why wouldn't the metaphor "awakened" denote life? Didn't Jesus awaken Lazazrus from his sleep in the tomb (Jn 11:11)?

And God does not give his saving grace to all humanity w/o exception, as explained previously. First, grace is only given to the humble, an attribute which does not characterize the bulk of humanity that is outside of Christ. And secondly, the Fear of the Lord, an absolutely essential component to salvation, is a gracious gift that was promised only to God's covenant people. And although this bad news isn't enough, all this gets even worse! Circumcision of the Heart, which enables people to love God (so that they can obey Him!), was also promised only to God's chosen people. All three of these biblical facts prove conclusively that God does not bestow saving grace upon all mankind in the distributive sense, which is the big lie of FWers!

 

[lrs68]

Don't you know that "sleep" or "asleep" are metaphors for death? So, why wouldn't the metaphor "awakened" denote life? Didn't Jesus awaken Lazazrus from his sleep in the tomb (Jn 11:11)?

And God does not give his saving grace to all humanity w/o exception, as explained previously. First, grace is only given to the humble, an attribute which does not characterize the bulk of humanity that is outside of Christ. And secondly, the Fear of the Lord, an absolutely essential component to salvation, is a gracious gift that was promised only to God's covenant people. And although this bad news isn't enough, all this gets even worse! Circumcision of the Heart, which enables people to love God (so that they can obey Him!), was also promised only to God's chosen people. All three of these biblical facts prove conclusively that God does not bestow saving grace upon all mankind in the distributive sense, which is the big lie of FWers!

I completely understand what you are trying to make the Potter and the Clay metaphor out to be here. But in that metaphor it was a demonstration of the Power of God over someone viewed as powerful or the Nation Itself that person was associated with.

God defeating Pharaoh reveals the Power of God because God also defeats Egypt.

But Joe-Blow, a nobody, someone who isn't making a difference on the world stage let alone in his own neighborhood and environment isn't giving Power to God should God defeat Joe-Blow because [(no one is ever going to know for God to be glorified through His Power)].

So clearly these examples of Pharaoh and Egypt are very few. God only gets recognized whenever everyone knows what He did not when just a single person knows.

Therefore you are either misusing these examples or flatly you don't know the difference.

 

[BillyBob]

God is the One Who established His plan of redemption in eternity past ... we are just living through that plan and we either believe what God wrote in Scripture (or Scripture a faithful believer preaches) or we don't ... whatever decision we make determines where we will spend eternity future.

Excuse me, but the above statement is what I objected to.
If God established His plan of redemption in eternity past, then [it will not fail] and [cannot be changed by anything man does]. If His plan includes us, He will certainly make it to happen.
Absolutely no assurance in what you have stated. Do you not agree?

 

[decipher]

Don't you know that "sleep" or "asleep" are metaphors for death? So, why wouldn't the metaphor "awakened" denote life? Didn't Jesus awaken Lazazrus from his sleep in the tomb (Jn 11:11)?

And God does not give his saving grace to all humanity w/o exception, as explained previously. First, grace is only given to the humble, an attribute which does not characterize the bulk of humanity that is outside of Christ. And secondly, the Fear of the Lord, an absolutely essential component to salvation, is a gracious gift that was promised only to God's covenant people. And although this bad news isn't enough, all this gets even worse! Circumcision of the Heart, which enables people to love God (so that they can obey Him!), was also promised only to God's chosen people. All three of these biblical facts prove conclusively that God does not bestow saving grace upon all mankind in the distributive sense, which is the big lie of FWers!

Being humble is not a prerequisit for grace. It is a result of grace. It comes with grace. Grace is given to sinners and changes them.

 

[Rufus]

God never "decreed" the fall, as that would make Him inherently evil. But He did judge the incident afterwards.

A simple cause and effect concept that anyone other than a super-determinist could not fail to comprehend.

Your finite, carnal reasoning should not be used as the final, authoritative basis for understanding scripture.

First of all, if God did not decree the fall, then this means God is not the supreme ruler of this universe; for the Fall of Man would have happened outside of God's purview. And if this is the case, then what else has occurred in this world that was beyond God's control? Or what will, yet, happen in this world that will be outside of God's jurisdiction? And if God didn't decree the Fall, then who did: Satan?

Moreover, we have solid biblical evidence that God did indeed decree (permit) the Fall since He cast out Lucifer from heaven to the earth! Why did God make earth the devil's pit stop before his eternally destined entrance into the Lake of Fire?

God is not evil for decreeing the Fall since He did not force either the Tempter to tempt or A&E to disobey. God could have easily restrained the devil's evil influence if this had been his perfect will. God could have protected A&E from the evil one just like He protected Sarah from Abimilech's evil intentions; but He chose instead to allow evil to enter this world for the sake of a greater good -- just like He permitted all the evil that was done to Joseph by his brothers for a greater good.

Your mind, heart and soul seem to be filled with earthly, worldly, demonic thinking, which need to be replaced with God's thoughts and His ways which are infinitely superior to yours.

 

[Rufus]

Being humble is not a prerequisit for grace. It is a result of grace. It comes with grace. Grace is given to sinners and changes them.

If I were to say that God doesn't give his grace to chipmunks, would you then twist that to mean that God's grace will result in producing chipmunks? Since God doesn't even hear the prayers of sinners, what would make you think that He would give his saving grace to prideful sinners?

 

[Rufus]

It's showing ultimately all humanity has multiple options to choose from but it's their choice. If God let's you choose death you did it because you are free to do it. The same is with choosing life.

One can only do what one is FREE TO DO! And the immutable, sinful, evil nature of man will not allow man to choose good -- only evil! Man cannot change what he is in his essence. No one can. That's the whole point behind the rhetorical question asked by the prophet in Jer 13:23. And it's also the point to Prov 11:6! A trapped man doesn't have the power to escape his trap! Recall Daniel when he was tossed into the lions' den? Was he not trapped therein with no way out? Was he able to extricate himself from his unenviable circumstances? Or did God's power ultimately rescue him from his trap?

 

[HeIsHere]

We become sons of God through Faith in Christ Jesus. This Faith is articular and thus there is some sense of specificity here. It's obviously Faith or Belief in Jesus Christ, but it can also very easily be making clear that it's "your Faith/Belief in Jesus Christ." IOW, this can be very specifically the action of the believer.

Amen.
A deep dive destroys monergism, context is the enemy of this doctrine.

 

[lrs68]

One can only do what one is FREE TO DO! And the immutable, sinful, evil nature of man will not allow man to choose good -- only evil! Man cannot change what he is in his essence. No one can. That's the whole point behind the rhetorical question asked by the prophet in Jer 13:23. And it's also the point to Prov 11:6! A trapped man doesn't have the power to escape his trap! Recall Daniel when he was tossed into the lions' den? Was he not trapped therein with no way out? Was he able to extricate himself from his unenviable circumstances? Or did God's power ultimately rescue him from his trap?

Man was ultimately natural and evil and still chose God within the Israel camp. You evidently have refused to read the entire Torah and complete Tanakh to see how wicked the Chosen People of God have been since the Law was established.

 

[Jackson129]

Your finite, carnal reasoning should not be used as the final, authoritative basis for understanding scripture.

First of all, if God did not decree the fall, then this means God is not the supreme ruler of this universe; for the Fall of Man would have happened outside of God's purview. And if this is the case, then what else has occurred in this world that was beyond God's control? Or what will, yet, happen in this world that will be outside of God's jurisdiction? And if God didn't decree the Fall, then who did: Satan?

Moreover, we have solid biblical evidence that God did indeed decree (permit) the Fall since He cast out Lucifer from heaven to the earth! Why did God make earth the devil's pit stop before his eternally destined entrance into the Lake of Fire?

God is not evil for decreeing the Fall since He did not force either the Tempter to tempt or A&E to disobey. God could have easily restrained the devil's evil influence if this had been his perfect will. God could have protected A&E from the evil one just like He protected Sarah from Abimilech's evil intentions; but He chose instead to allow evil to enter this world for the sake of a greater good -- just like He permitted all the evil that was done to Joseph by his brothers for a greater good.

Your mind, heart and soul seem to be filled with earthly, worldly, demonic thinking, which need to be replaced with God's thoughts and His ways which are infinitely superior to yours.

Just because God knew they were gonna do it dosent mean He made them do it.

 

[Genez]

Lol it's Jesus talking about verifying that His words are true connected to anyone willing to do the Will of God.

The fact you believe this is Jesus talking about His Will doing God's Will is all i need to understand why you're so easily duped by the false doctrine behind the Reformed platform.

You made my day literally.

Good luck

Talk about Blind Guides

Do not mock.

Mocking does not correct.
Mocking does not provide what is needed for correction.

Correction gives what is needed for grace to work in transformation and inner strength...

Let them mock if they wish.
Do not return evil for evil.

But overcome evil with Divine good.

Or, leave them be.

 

[HeIsHere]

Is that so? Why exactly? Because you say so?
I reject your assertions outright, rather, I will refer to what is being clearly portrayed in the passages.

Which is a man, Moses (who God knew face to face, loved by God, servant of God) who did his own will in direct defiance of His, knowing full well the consequences.

Agree he exerted his freedom to do otherwise, definitively an indication of the freedom of the will.

 

[rogerg]

If I were to say that God doesn't give his grace to chipmunks, would you then twist that to mean that God's grace will result in producing chipmunks? Since God doesn't even hear the prayers of sinners, what would make you think that He would give his saving grace to prideful sinners?

Rufus, do I misunderstand you, or are you saying you believe there are prerequisites to receiving God's grace besides that someone had been chosen for it?

 

[lrs68]

Do not mock.

Mocking does not correct.
Mocking does not provide what is needed for correction.

Correction gives what is needed for grace to work in transformation and inner strength...

Let them mock if they wish.
Do not return evil for evil.

But overcome evil with Divine good.

Or, leave them be.

He knows the truth.
I am shocked you completely miss the fact he knows and is doing what he accuses many others of doing.

 

[Rufus]

some have tried and each definition provided is an inaccurate depiction.





then the term should no longer be used ... but that won't happen ... and I'm not saying you have used the term ...





yeah ... I feel your pain ... gotta be fitted with the whole armor of God if/when you post here ... fellow believers are torn down instead of being built up, ... these things ought not so to be ...





right.





talk to you soon ...
.

Why don't you give us what you think is the proper definition of "freewill"?

 

[HeIsHere]

I set therefore before you death and life, therefore choose life.

Exactly, why does God give us commands if we do not have the ability to execute it.

 

[Genez]

am I, well ok it's a Shame that I am if I am I guess, ok well back this up with scripture please.

For starters ...
God saved your soul.
Not your body.

What is intrinsically depraved can not be redeemed.
The body is doomed to perish.
Our resurrection body may look like how we are now (but perfect),
but that body essence will have everlasting life and will not be the same structure.


If man were TOTALLY depraved?
Not simply functioning in total depravity?
Then God could not redeem the soul.

The soul born enslaved in the prison of depraved flesh.
Like a person who had too much to drink,
the soul can not do what is righteous and good,
because the fallen flesh is like being drunk, which influences the soul in a bad way.

Grace sobers up the person to have the soul made able to think clearly enough to understand the Gospel.

Then the solul chooses freely.

Now?

If that soul takes the way that the fallen angels did?
Then that soul is accountable and condemnable.

That is why we can not be saved without grace.
Grace does not save automatically!
Grace makes what was impossible to become possible!

That is why those sent to the Lake of Fire will be without excuse.
For they, like Satan and his angels, make their choice, not fof sin.
But for Evil!

There is a difference.
Jesus died for the sins of the world.
He did not die for Evil.
He would have had to reject himself to bear evil on the Cross.

This is only a foundational understanding.
Can't answer it all on one page.

grace and peace .....

 

[BillyBob]

Exactly, why does God give us commands if we do not have the ability to execute it.

Why are we told to do what is right with God, yet we continue to sin?

 

[Genez]

He knows the truth.
I am shocked you completely miss the fact he knows and is doing what he accuses many others of doing.

He does not know the truth.

He may have a knowledge of the truth only.

 

[HeIsHere]

All that I hear out of the super-determinists is two, maybe three verses being banged out over and over again.
But these are merely the vehicles for the projection of some kind of superiority-inferiority complex.
And are also excuses for the incessant issuance of diatribes and insults.

Out of context verses which absolutely require the full context.