Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

Election of man and angels were not involved with the same factors concerning their election.
The elect angels never needed to be crucified with Christ.
They were always spiritually alive and did not need to become the equivalent of being born again.

Might be? God tossed out all the angels after they began arguing endlessly with Satan, as who to follow...

And, from within the ruble of that destroyed prehistoric creation?
Some came running to God in tears, never to give Satan a hearing again.

The other angels?
In bitterness and anger, raised their fists towards God, refusing to return to their previous relationship they had with God.

In that sense? They were elect. Chosen by God to be the ones to serve Him.

Now?

There is no mention of forgiveness in the Bible for fallen angels. And a destroyed prehistoric creation is conjecture. No biblical evidence.

 

[Genez]

Pure nonsense! Eve wasn't born fallen, yet God obviously predestined her in eternity to be reconciled to Him.

And do your homework re elect angels. God is running HIS universe, thank you!

You like bossing around ignorant people who can be intimidated by your closed minded, brutish, approach?

With me?
You better look elsewhere!

 

[Genez]

There is no mention of forgiveness in the Bible for fallen angels. And a destroyed prehistoric creation is conjecture. No biblical evidence.

‘God puts no trust or confidence, even in His [heavenly] servants,
And He charges His angels with error." Job 4:18

They surely do get forgiven when need be!

Angels are always learning from God!
God uses men on earth as a teaching tool for angels.

1 Peter 1:12

It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke ​

of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you ​

by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.​

.

 

[Blain]

It's the lessons they teach and not the particular audience that is in view.

Well actually without understanding the audience it may be more difficult to understand the lesson being taught, for intance when he says his yoke is easy he is referencing a yoke they put on their animals or when he is referencing a wedding scenario the jewish weddings are not like ours so their traditions are different and that is another reason understanding the audience he is speaking to is to help us understand the lesson

 

[Blain]

‘God puts no trust or confidence, even in His [heavenly] servants,
And He charges His angels with error." Job 4:18

They surely do get forgiven when need be!

Angels are always learning from God!
God uses men on earth as a teaching tool for angels.

1 Peter 1:12

It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke ​

of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you ​

by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.​

.

This doesn't say however that they are forgiven for sin, in fact the only time it seems to be mentioned is when satan rebelled against God and he certainly is not forgiven for that

 

[Pilgrimshope]

He is the God of the living?

You stated:

“For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”​

​

‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬​

Now if they are the living?
Who then, are the dead?

He said to another man, “Follow me.”​

​

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, ​

but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

​

Luke 9:59-60​

​

Unbelievers!​

Yeah the man’s dad had just passed away physically and he wanted to bury him before following jesus. Jesus wasn’t saying anyone’s born spiritually dead to god there tbough

awe aren’t dead spiritually we’re going to die if we don’t repent and believe and be saved tbough

inthink some people think god kills our spirit and replaces it with a different one but he sends the spirit of jesus to believers to be with them and redeem them from sin . We aren’t replaced we receive his spirit to be with us always

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remember what Jesus said about the holy ghost ?

“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

... But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:16-17, 23-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i think some don’t realize he’s come to save our living spirit before we die in sin he’s our companion oir shepherd but we haven’t been replaced with another living spirit he’s come to heal ours and save us from the flesh and it’s condemnation

we aren’t spiritually dead we lost gods communion in us and with us and need tbat to have eternal life but we aren’t dead yet

Notice the Bible speaks of two deaths ?one is physical like the man’s dad who died I haven’t said anything about peoples body not dying I’ve said we aren’t spiritually dead to god .

But we’re appointed to die physically because of sin and then after that be judged for our deeds .

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die,

but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭

even non believers have a spirit when thier body dies in earth tboer spirit returns to god for judgement then the second death is the spiritual death

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Let's get this where it belongs to be understood as it was intended.

Context:

​

Luke 20:34-38​

​

Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. ​

But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come ​

and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given ​

in marriage, and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. ​

They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. ​

But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the ​

dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of ​

Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ ​

He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”​

​

When it says He is not God of the dead?
That was speaking in reference to the deceased Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who were just previously mentioned.

That meant?
Though physically dead at the time?
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were remaining fully alive to God!
They were in Paradise awaiting the resurrection of Christ!
He is the God of the Living!

Yeah all are alive to god even the physically dead

If their flesh is dead which we acknowledge …..what part of them is alive to god ?

 

[brightfame52]

“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;”

yeah that’s a good one there it doesn’t say anyone’s born spiritually dead though but it’s a good one to show what I’m saying about our actions not being born spiritually dead to god

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Again we aren’t born spiritually dead we sin freely and hen are condemned by the law of sin and death look here ( not as if I expect you would but lol )

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Why is he telling them if they don’t believe then they’ll die in thier sins ? If they’re already dead to him I mean ?

why warn everyone constently of repentance before they die if they’re already dead to him

You never got passed what Jesus said bout no one being dead to God

“Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:37-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

toy should look into the possibility your completely wrong about people being “ spiritually dead “ Jesus doesn’t replace our spirit he comes to be our companion with our spirit

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

man has always had a living spirit

“But there is a spirit in man: And the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭32:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, Searching all the inward parts of the belly.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭20:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what we were missing wasn’t a living spirit , but gods holy spirit with us. And n order to free us from sin and the flesh bodies of death .

Man by nature is dead in sin Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

 

[studier]

You like bossing around ignorant people who can be intimidated by your closed minded, brutish, approach?

With me?
You better look elsewhere!

Lead tester.

 

[Cameron143]

‘God puts no trust or confidence, even in His [heavenly] servants,
And He charges His angels with error." Job 4:18

They surely do get forgiven when need be!

Angels are always learning from God!
God uses men on earth as a teaching tool for angels.

1 Peter 1:12

It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke ​

of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you ​

by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.​

.

Charging angels with folly is not forgiveness. And that angels still learn is not surprising.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Man by nature is dead in sin Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

“by grace ye are saved”

Yep

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Genez]

This doesn't say however that they are forgiven for sin, in fact the only time it seems to be mentioned is when satan rebelled against God and he certainly is not forgiven for that

I was not speaking of sin for the elect angels.
They did not want Satan's domination, but lacked the wisdom and understanding needed to resist his tyranny.
Kind of like we see with evil dictators taking over a people unable to resist.

The prehistoric battle between the angels would be like some genius, book-smart, Jehovah witness, coming here and dominating.
Not all would want to follow his heresy.
But, not all could refute him because of their lack of knowledge.
Many would just keep guessing ways to stay free of him, but without a resolve that only comes from knowing Truth.

So when Satan had all the angels arguing amongst themselves?
God put an end to the endless arguing and bickering.
God destroyed the prehistoric world they congregated around, and out of the ruble, those who preferred the Lord over Satan
came to His side. Leaving those who wanted to be in Satan's gang to be on their own.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Charging angels with folly is not forgiveness. And that angels still learn is not surprising.

They don’t have the excuse of the corrupt flesh they are spirits

“And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, And his ministers a flame of fire.

But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:7, 13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

mankind are the hiers of salvation we can be redeemed because our flesh is what’s condemned not our spirit yet the angels are spirits thier corruption is spiritual not of flesh

 

[Blain]

I was not speaking of sin for the elect angels.
They did not want Satan's domination, but lacked the wisdom and understanding needed to resist his tyranny.
Kind of like we see with evil dictators taking over a people unable to resist.

The prehistoric battle between the angels would be like some genius, book-smart, Jehovah witness, coming here and dominating.
Not all would want to follow his heresy.
But, not all could refute him because of their lack of knowledge.
Many would just keep guessing ways to stay free of him, but without a resolve that only comes from knowing Truth.

So when Satan had all the angels arguing amongst themselves?
God put an end to the endless arguing and bickering.
God destroyed the prehistoric world they congregated around, and out of the ruble, those who preferred the Lord over Satan
came to His side. Leaving those who wanted to be in Satan's gang to be on their own.

Umm... not sure where you got all that from the bible never records such events where did you get your info from?

 

[Genez]

Yeah all are alive to god even the physically dead

If their flesh is dead which we acknowledge …..what part of them is alive to god ?

Their souls!!!!!!!

You present soul is what is going to be inside your resurrection body!
The body you now have?
Will be thrown in a garbage disposal.
For our present body consists of the elements of this earth (which is to obliterated).

If you die before the Rapture?
Your soul will be instantly transported to heaven before the presence of the Lord! ALIVE!

 

[brightfame52]

“by grace ye are saved”

Yep

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Right Grace saves because it made a person alive Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

You know what quickened mean ?

 

[Cameron143]

Well actually without understanding the audience it may be more difficult to understand the lesson being taught, for intance when he says his yoke is easy he is referencing a yoke they put on their animals or when he is referencing a wedding scenario the jewish weddings are not like ours so their traditions are different and that is another reason understanding the audience he is speaking to is to help us understand the lesson

Yes that can be helpful, but that's not my point. Everything about physical creation has a spiritual counterpart. Lambs reveal something about God. Sheep tell us of the nature of fallen man. Earthly food portends the existence of spiritual food. Physical life teaches about spiritual life. God created the physical world to teach us about Him.

 

[Genez]

Charging angels with folly is not forgiveness.

Not folly. Error. It says, error.

Like not hearing what someone just said.

 

[Magenta]

Oh, oh...you just put all the FWers on CANNOT overload. Keep watch for exploding heads...

Yes, they look at man can't or man cannot and say man can. With so many verses they do that very thing.

 

[Blain]

Yes that can be helpful, but that's not my point. Everything about physical creation has a spiritual counterpart. Lambs reveal something about God. Sheep tell us of the nature of fallen man. Earthly food portends the existence of spiritual food. Physical life teaches about spiritual life. God created the physical world to teach us about Him.

Oh I see sorry my understanding may not be the best atm still trying to get over being sick, but yes you are correct that everything has a spiritual counterpart