Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Dang that word "CANNOT"! That word needs to be severely watered down -- which FWers are all too eager to do.

Romans 3 verses 11-12; Romans 8 verses 5-8; 2 Timothy 2 verses 25-26 There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

 

[Genez]

Yeah I’ll listen but tell me why that is what it means ?

He is the God of the living?

You stated:

“For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”​

​

‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬​

Now if they are the living?
Who then, are the dead?

He said to another man, “Follow me.”​

​

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, ​

but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

​

Luke 9:59-60​

​

Unbelievers!​

 

[Pilgrimshope]

By nature man is dead in sin, alienated from the life of God

Yeah you guys keep saying that but that’s not what the Bible says though do you guys who keep insisting in it have scriptures that say it ?

I’ve shown a simple one where Jesus is saying that all are alive to god lol no one seems to want to acknowledge ot but

“For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Again is there a scripture that says “ mankind is spiritually dead by nature to god “

i don’t think there is one but I’m open to someone sharing those ones with me to support the thing you guys keep saying . Where are the scriptures stating mankind is spiritually dead to god ?

 

[Rufus]

1 Timothy 5:21

Now you let the cat out of the bag along with all the elect angels.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

He is the God of the living?

You stated:

“For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If they are the living?

Then, who are the dead?


He said to another man, “Follow me.”

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead,
but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”

Luke 9:59-60

Jesus states this in the gospel …. It’s not something I came up with Just something I noticed when doing a study years ago . I was showing you what jesus said about the topic of man being born dead to him by thier nature to see how you would respond to it after stating the opposite for a fact

“For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

People aren’t dead to god thierbheaded for death without him but can be saved that’s why he’s calling us to repent and believe before we do die and perish .

 

[Rufus]

Elect has to do with the atonement of the Cross.
Election was for those who were born fallen by no choice of their own.

The angels that stayed with God were not created fallen.
They were as they were when they came directly from the hands of God.

You need to be able to grasp this reality if one is ever going to understand the state of God's angels .

Pure nonsense! Eve wasn't born fallen, yet God obviously predestined her in eternity to be reconciled to Him.

And do your homework re elect angels. God is running HIS universe, thank you!

 

[Rufus]

Romans 3 verses 11-12; Romans 8 verses 5-8; 2 Timothy 2 verses 25-26 There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Oh, oh...you just put all the FWers on CANNOT overload. Keep watch for exploding heads...

 

[brightfame52]

Yeah you guys keep saying that but that’s not what the Bible says though do you guys who keep insisting in it have scriptures that say it ?

I’ve shown a simple one where Jesus is saying that all are alive to god lol no one seems to want to acknowledge ot but

“For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Again is there a scripture that says “ mankind is spiritually dead by nature to god “

i don’t think there is one but I’m open to someone sharing those ones with me to support the thing you guys keep saying . Where are the scriptures stating mankind is spiritually dead to god ?

Man by nature is dead in sin Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

 

[Pilgrimshope]

1 Timothy 5:21

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I was wondering is the ones who don’t believe and are damned who’s responsible “ the election “

I had asked about man but someone mentioned angels

“And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation,( what they did )

he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”( his move )
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:6‬

Were they “ elect” before they did this ? Or were they elected by gods will against thier own to do it ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Assuming your interpretation of "world" as being all men w/o exception, then why did Jesus explicitly omit the "world" from his prayer to his Father in Jn 17?.

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Blain]

You missed my point. Jesus used parables to teach. They were earthly stories about spiritual truth. He used the things people experienced in their daily lives to teach them about God. This is so because God created the physical world to reflect spiritual reality...to point men towards Him. In Acts 17:26-27 tells us God has even worked out the circumstances of our lives to lead us to Him.
God is filling the earth with the knowledge of His glory...Habakkuk 2:14. The more God is known, the more He is glorified. Before sin, this was fully evident to man. After sin, man needs to be restored in his spirit or soul to again experience this in its fulness.

Yes he did and that is why when it comes to the parables he spoke we have to understand it as stories that related to the Jews. These stories would not make sense otherwise to the common gentile back then but even today if we don't consider them in this way it will not really make sense

 

[cv5]

So...you don't believe that God supernaturally set Jesus free from his dark entombment?

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5550525

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5550675

 

[Genez]

1 Timothy 5:21

Election of man and angels were not involved with the same factors concerning their election.
The elect angels never needed to be crucified with Christ.
They were always spiritually alive and did not need to become the equivalent of being born again.

Might be? God tossed out all the angels after they began arguing endlessly with Satan, as who to follow...

And, from within the ruble of that destroyed prehistoric creation?
Some came running to God in tears, never to give Satan a hearing again.

The other angels?
In bitterness and anger, raised their fists towards God, refusing to return to their previous relationship they had with God.

In that sense? They were elect. Chosen by God to be the ones to serve Him.

Now?

 

[Cameron143]

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I was wondering is the ones who don’t believe and are damned who’s responsible “ the election “

I had asked about man but someone mentioned angels

“And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation,( what they did )

he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”( his move )
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:6‬

Were they “ elect” before they did this ? Or were they elected by gods will against thier own to do it ?

My understanding is the elect angels are those who didn't sin and left their own habitation.

 

[cv5]

Jesus states this in the gospel …. It’s not something I came up with Just something I noticed when doing a study years ago . I was showing you what jesus said about the topic of man being born dead to him by thier nature to see how you would respond to it after stating the opposite for a fact

“For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

People aren’t dead to god thierbheaded for death without him but can be saved that’s why he’s calling us to repent and believe before we do die and perish .

Right. When Jesus speaks of death He is speaking about eternal separation in the lake of fire. Yet future. Subsequent to the fateful choice each man makes about Him.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes he did and that is why when it comes to the parables he spoke we have to understand it as stories that related to the Jews. These stories would not make sense otherwise to the common gentile back then but even today if we don't consider them in this way it will not really make sense

It's the lessons they teach and not the particular audience that is in view.

 

[studier]

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I was wondering is the ones who don’t believe and are damned who’s responsible “ the election “

I had asked about man but someone mentioned angels

“And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation,( what they did )

he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”( his move )
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:6‬

Were they “ elect” before they did this ? Or were they elected by gods will against thier own to do it ?

Must be a trick question

 

[Genez]

Jesus states this in the gospel …. It’s not something I came up with Just something I noticed when doing a study years ago . I was showing you what jesus said about the topic of man being born dead to him by thier nature to see how you would respond to it after stating the opposite for a fact

“For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

People aren’t dead to god thierbheaded for death without him but can be saved that’s why he’s calling us to repent and believe before we do die and perish .

Let's get this where it belongs to be understood as it was intended.

Context:

​

Luke 20:34-38​

​

Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. ​

But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come ​

and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given ​

in marriage, and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. ​

They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. ​

But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the ​

dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of ​

Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ ​

He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”​

​

When it says He is not God of the dead?
That was speaking in reference to the deceased Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who were just previously mentioned.

That meant?
Though physically dead at the time?
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were remaining fully alive to God!
They were in Paradise awaiting the resurrection of Christ!
He is the God of the Living!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Man by nature is dead in sin Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;”

yeah that’s a good one there it doesn’t say anyone’s born spiritually dead though but it’s a good one to show what I’m saying about our actions not being born spiritually dead to god

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Again we aren’t born spiritually dead we sin freely and hen are condemned by the law of sin and death look here ( not as if I expect you would but lol )

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Why is he telling them if they don’t believe then they’ll die in thier sins ? If they’re already dead to him I mean ?

why warn everyone constently of repentance before they die if they’re already dead to him

You never got passed what Jesus said bout no one being dead to God

“Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:37-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

toy should look into the possibility your completely wrong about people being “ spiritually dead “ Jesus doesn’t replace our spirit he comes to be our companion with our spirit

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

man has always had a living spirit

“But there is a spirit in man: And the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭32:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, Searching all the inward parts of the belly.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭20:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what we were missing wasn’t a living spirit , but gods holy spirit with us. And n order to free us from sin and the flesh bodies of death .

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Must be a trick question

Just gets avoided like most things that would get anywhere with certain folks