Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Man is born in transgression and sin (Psalm 51 verse 5, 58 verse 3), dead in transgressions (Ephesians 2 verse 5), his heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure (Jeremiah 17 verse 9), held captive by a love for sin (John 3 verse 19; John 8 verse 34), so that he will not seek God (Romans 3 verses 10-11), because he loves the darkness (John 3 verse 19), and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2 verse 14), nor can he change himself (Jeremiah 13 verse 23). He suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1 verse 18) and continues to willfully live in sin because he is totally depraved; this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14 verse 12); they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1 verse 18), and their mind is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. (Romans 8 verse 7).

 

[Rufus]

It begins with wanting to know Jesus is real if Jesus is what the Gospels tell us He is.
Evil does not want to believe He is real.

We do not believe before we are saved.
Before we are saved, we will want to believe.

Evil will not want to believe.

When God saves us, He grants us the power to actually believe what we wanted to believe is real.
That is why many cry when they recognize this happening to them.

But all are saved positionally before any of us functionally believe. Did Eve confess (acknowledge) God before or after He reconciled her to Himself?

 

[Jordon]

Spiritual life is the spirit, that wanders the earth seeking those who will hearken to its voice. Being spiritually dead means being separated from God. That doesn't mean he doesn't still speak to spiritually dead people. If what you say is true, then people are saved before they believe the gospel, which is just ridiculous. All who learn of the father through the holy spirit (before they are saved) come to Christ (who saves them)

Honestly this discussion has gone round in circles so many times,
What ridiculous is for some that so many people just can't realise when it comes to the natural man Only God is good.

 

[cv5]

Do you mean the spirit of him who asserts that God raped Mary if He did not ask her permission?

And to be sure, God did not ask Mary. But people will argue about this because they refuse to accept what Scripture plainly states.

Some would rather blaspheme God than admit they were wrong. That spirit.

Don't accuse me of upholding this doctrine. It is you that agrees with it.

What I believe is that Gabriel and Mary were NEGOTIATING terms. Then when terms were settled, Mary then provided CONSENT. Informed consent.

I have ALWAYS stated this to be the case. Mary DEFINITELY gave permission to be used as a vessel and servant to the Lord and His purpose.

Calvinists lack all credibility when the heat is on. And everyone knows it

 

[Rufus]

Either the Scripture defines objective reality or it does not.

Thems the choices ...

What is "objective reality"? Would that be Natural Revelation (reality as we all know it to be) or something different?

 

[Magenta]

Honestly this discussion has gone round in circles so many times,
What ridiculous is for some that so many people just can't realise when it comes to the natural man Only God is good.

The heretics do not believe what God's Word says of man. They mock it.

They say he hears and can see and understand the gospel and will choose to believe it even though Scripture
makes plain it is foolishness to his fleshly mind. They have the bad tree bringing forth good fruit even though
Jesus said it was impossible. They don't care. They believe their flesh brings forth fruit unto life even though
the Bible says the opposite, explicitly says the opposite, and that man is opposed to the spiritual things of God.

“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. Mark ch. 10 verse 18 and Luke ch. 18 verse 19 “There is only One who is good.” Matthew ch. 19 verse 17b. There is no one who does good. fr Psalm ch. 14. There is no one righteous, not even one. Romans ch. 3 verse 10. They are corrupt; their ways are vile. There is no one who does good. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. fr Psalm ch. 53 verses 1-3. Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Ecclesiastes ch. 7 verse 20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

 

[Jordon]

Man is born in transgression and sin (Psalm 51 verse 5, 58 verse 3), dead in transgressions (Ephesians 2 verse 5), his heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure (Jeremiah 17 verse 9), held captive by a love for sin (John 3 verse 19; John 8 verse 34), so that he will not seek God (Romans 3 verses 10-11), because he loves the darkness (John 3 verse 19), and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2 verse 14), nor can he change himself (Jeremiah 13 verse 23). He suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1 verse 18) and continues to willfully live in sin because he is totally depraved; this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14 verse 12); they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1 verse 18), and their mind is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. (Romans 8 verse 7).

Yep a simple explanation for all of all this that proves without any doubt what so ever to me is the natural man's nature need a saviour . Because the way Gods works we are his children and he are father.

For complete clarification I wonder if theres any parent in here who can say hand on heart they always had to help there child when there nature became selfish.

What I'm saying is that nobody is born free of selfishness, it was mankind selfish nature that lead to the fall in the garden.

So basically IF God would have created man saved in the first place they would have known what they where losing, they would have miss used the oracle to.

 

[cv5]

Do you call yourself a gnostic when the Holy Spirit testifies with your spirit? Is it a demon and not God in your view???

That would be blasphemy, but here you are agreeing with a God blasphemer, so it would not surprise me, really.

Some of these heretics here will tell you that if God reveals Himself in any way that varies from how He revealed Himself to another then He is unfair, and yet the Bible front to back is full of examples of God revealing Himself differently from one person to the next.

People go around saying, Christianity is a relationship not a religion, then they start throwing words like gnostic around.

Really, it makes no sense. Either the holy Spirit communicates with us or He does not.

Scripture says He does, and that is not the definition of gnosticism.

Nor is regeneration gnosticism.

Heart circumcision is not magic, either.

Espousing some kind of unique personal "experience" and then conjuring up bogus dogma to suit it and then calling it Bible doctrine is PRECISELY what gnostics do!

You are not the first to do it. But as for the last? We are so near the rapture that this gnostic conjuring won't be lasting much longer.

 

[Magenta]

Yep a simple explanation for all of all this that proves without any doubt what so ever to me is the natural man's nature need a saviour . Because the way Gods works we are his children and he are father.

For complete clarification I wonder if theres any parent in here who can say hand on heart they always had to help there child when there nature became selfish.

What I'm saying is that nobody is born free of selfishness, it was mankind selfish nature that lead to the fall in the garden.

So basically IF God would have created man saved in the first place they would have known what they where losing, they would have miss used the oracle to.

James 1 verses 14-15; 1 John 2 verse 16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .

 

[Magenta]

Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Magenta]

There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. Romans 3 verses 11-12; Romans 8 verses 5-8; 2 Timothy 2 verses 25-26

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The power and wisdom of God in the gospel is further clarified in 1 Corinthians 1:24 = to those
whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

God works out His wisdom and His power in those who believe.

If and when the gospel is preached, God allows mankind to suppress the truth in unrighteousness if that is what they choose to do. The suppressing of truth does not affect God's power or wisdom in any way, shape, or form. God remains sovereign whether someone believes or does not believe. However, the suppressing of truth detrimentally affects those who suppress. They suffer consequences and if they continue to suppress the whole of their lives, the lake of fire is the final destination.

If someone does not believe the gospel of Christ ... that person does not weaken the power of God contained in the gospel.

If someone does not believe the gospel of Christ ... that person does not diminish the wisdom of God contained in the gospel.

The foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of man and the weakness of God is stronger than man.


1 Corinthians 1:23-25 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

But all are saved positionally before any of us functionally believe. Did Eve confess (acknowledge) God before or after He reconciled her to Himself?

A person can't be saved positionally until he is justified positionally through faith

 

[Jordon]

The heretics do not believe what God's Word says of man. They mock it.

They say he hears and can see and understand the gospel and will choose to believe it even though Scripture
makes plain it is foolishness to his fleshly mind. They have the bad tree bringing forth good fruit even though
Jesus said it was impossible. They don't care. They believe their flesh brings forth fruit unto life even though
the Bible says the opposite, explicitly says the opposite, and that man is opposed to the spiritual things of God.

“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. Mark ch. 10 verse 18 and Luke ch. 18 verse 19 “There is only One who is good.” Matthew ch. 19 verse 17b. There is no one who does good. fr Psalm ch. 14. There is no one righteous, not even one. Romans ch. 3 verse 10. They are corrupt; their ways are vile. There is no one who does good. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. fr Psalm ch. 53 verses 1-3. Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Ecclesiastes ch. 7 verse 20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

I believe Its the innocent freedom will thing with some people's, others not, I think there saying if you have a right to choose, then you have the Right to choose whether to be saved or repent, on the basis that no one is worthy and all you have to is choose out of your own free choice, which somehow means free will.
Yép, I don't know why choice cant be seen as enabling grace from will power given by God.
That how it is for a saved person

Who wouldn't want that for an unsaved person.

It's far better to teach that than the other methods. Is seem unsaved people have more favor than saved people here from God

When you think about it, saved people have to disaplin them selves, where as what's being suggest here is unsaved people can have this whenever approach, when they feel like choosing.

I think the pricking of the conscience needs to be spoken of more really.

The ox will keep kicking the farmers prick and cause more harm for it's self, if it doesn't kick against it, then it causes less harm for it's self.

I believe that's what happens with all unsaved people.

 

[Magenta]

Being spiritually dead doesn't mean that a person can't hear and hearken to the holy spirit.

More likely for them to be taken captive to do the will of the devil as Scripture says.

Deaf people don't hear. Or did you circumcise your own ears?

You know the heretics here claim God does not give commands people cannot carry out.

But they never have told me how they circumcised their own hearts.

Jesus came to open the eyes of the blind and unstop the ears of the deaf... after all.

Jesus answered, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.” Luke 5 v 31 The Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost. Luke 19 v 10 For the Son of Man came to save the lost. Matthew 18 v 11 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners. Matthew 9 v 13b, Mark 2 v 17b I will seek the lost, bring back the strays, bind up the broken, and strengthen the weak; but the sleek and strong I will destroy. Ezekiel 34 v 16

 

[cv5]

What is "objective reality"?

Bingo. There is your basic problem. You don't know it.
Probably has something to do with Romans 1:18.....

 

[Magenta]

And raise the dead to life! And change their incurably wicked heart, the one heretics essentially claim can change itself.

Luke 4 v 18-19 The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, 19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.

 

[Magenta]

I've been patient I've been kind in polite multiple times defending magenta Cameron and others
who are repeatedly getting called twisted names like Calvinist, and other names all the time

That alone is reason for them to set their sights on you and start firing their hatred in your direction.

Jordon, they fling pejoratives and lies because they hate the Scripture truths presented, and they have
none of their own verses to counter with, so they make other claims from their vain imaginations,
hoping to silence those they oppose, those who present the Scripture truths they reject and abhor.

And as you can see they even make claims about what is in Scripture, that simply are not true.

Not even capitalizing their lies makes them true. Repeating them does not make them true, either.

Repeatedly telling us everyone hears. Scripture says otherwise.

Repeatedly telling us everyone sees. Scripture says otherwise.

Repeatedly telling us the gospel is not hid. Scripture says otherwise.

Repeatedly telling us man's will is free. Scripture says otherwise.

Scripture says flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death.

Scripture says the natural man cannot receive the spiritual things of God.

Scripture says the natural man cannot understand the spiritual things of God.

Scripture says the natural man is opposed to the spiritual things of God.

Scripture says a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. That there are none good.

But they disagree. They replace Scripture with their vain opinions and heresy, contradicting and
denying and rewriting things even Jesus said. And to cover for their wholesale rejection of what
Scripture says of man, they try to make those who uphold Scriptural truths to be a bad guy. They
will blaspheme God and claim they are defending Him while rejecting what He plainly stated.

 

[Genez]

if it was the sin only involving angels why do we need an imaginary human race that openly contradicts 1 Corinthians 15:45 to exist and be judged for it?

Why do you insist upon acting like you are stupid to win your argument?

I already told you that the Hebrew word normally used for man was not used by Jeremiah.
Besides? Jeremiah tells us that ALL OF THEM WERE DESTROYED!

Are we not still here?

 

[Genez]

Satan walked among rhe fiery stones, not among trees and animals.

there was a mineral Eden, not a biological one.

Eden was only a small garden on earth.
Not the entire planet and all the other living things outside of the Garden.
Why do you insist that Satan's garden was exceptionally different?