Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

If it was not done in the truth.... It means nothing real.

So...I ask a question, 4 different people respond with varying degrees of animosity, and I'm the one who can't stand others?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I just knew it was God long before I learned what the place was. You can tell God from anything else no matter where you are at.

On the opposite side it's like driving into a city, town, place and it feels evil, depressed, not free. God allows us to be able to experience situations like this through the Holy Ghost. Discernment is a most beautiful Gift from Almighty God.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

hmmmm ...
.

 

[Rufus]

Speak for yourself wimpy. And blame yourself (not Adam your perennial scapegoat) for your lack of a spine, tepid resolve and failing willpower.

Ooh...did I get your undies in a wad because, like scripture always does, I spoke negatively (albeit honestly) about your superhero? You can't handle that much honesty, can you, wimp!?

And what makes you think I have "failing willpower"? None of God's precious, efficacious gifts ever fail!

Ps 110:3
3 Thy people offer themselves willingly in the day of thy power, in holy array: out of the womb of the morning Thou hast the dew of thy youth.
ASV

I know I offered myself willingly on the day of the Lord's power! What about you? I bet you offer yourself quite willingly to your spiritual superhero Adam who brought ruin, devastation, misery, suffering, pain, sorrow and death into this world. Such a fine human being you bow down to! You just better hope and pray that you don't die in your hero.

 

[studier]

Having a peaceful last few days of studying a few things I wanted to study, before the activity here this morning I was pondering this deterministic theology from a couple simple angles - the Gospel and Anthropology. IMO determinism destroys both. It attacks God's design of man making him into a corpse with no volitional ability. It attacks the Gospel making it into something so complex and mystical that it cannot be understood, while Paul explains via Deuteronomy that the message he proclaims is near men, in their mouth and in their heart. This is idiomatic language demystifying the Gospel, saying the Gospel can be confessed because it can be understood and believed. IOW if you can speak it, it's because you can understand it. And this confession is also action, so the Gospel is understandable, believable, confessable, and thus actionable. When Paul elsewhere speaks of God's Wisdom of His Gospel message destroying the wisdom of the wise, he's telling us that God's Gospel about His Son is simple and human wisdom absurdly and arrogantly thinks itself complex and rejects as nonsense such a simplistic message. Determinism undermines God's design of volitional anthropology and mystifies God's simple, understandable, believable, confessable, actionable message to man about His Son having all authority in Heaven and on earth. Saying it cannot be understood makes it a false gospel. Destroying volitional anthropology removes responsibility from man, thus making authoritative commands empty - stripped of moral weight, relational invitation, and covenantal meaning.

With that said, having taken up an old and long-term study, I don't think "faith" is well understood, which is putting it mildly.

 

[Rufus]

Is it good to hate hate

Now there's a question

It is exceedingly good to hate what God hates!

 

[Magenta]

Isn't God the cause of our design and creation and ability to will and to reason and to receive and to reject and to confess and to deny and to promote and to suppress and to obey and to disobey and to submit and to rebel and...

You are starting to sound like what I have seen called a super determinist. Better watch out now... next thing
you know you will be acknowledging the value of God's will above human will and affirming His sovereignty!

 

[studier]

Feelings are not thoughts. Knowledge of Truth must be at its foundation.
Many become enemies of the cross because they make their emotions their god.

Here it is... Not just a few. But, many!

For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping,
that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction,
whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind
on earthly things. Philippians 3:18-19​

The ancients often used body parts to describe terms that we now use invented words for.
The word "belly" was used to describe emotions.

You will see these emotion driven Christians everywhere.

I've often pondered why many Christians don't see that Paul is including if not pointing at Christians in those verses. Christians as enemies of Christ's crucifixion. That section of Scripture IMO is one of the most profound in the NC explaining what the telos - the goal - of salvation in Christ is for man.

Thanks for posting.

 

[Rufus]

Having a peaceful last few days of studying a few things I wanted to study, before the activity here this morning I was pondering this deterministic theology from a couple simple angles - the Gospel and Anthropology. IMO determinism destroys both. It attacks God's design of man making him into a corpse with no volitional ability. It attacks the Gospel making it into something so complex and mystical that it cannot be understood, while Paul explains via Deuteronomy that the message he proclaims is near men, in their mouth and in their heart. This is idiomatic language demystifying the Gospel, saying the Gospel can be confessed because it can be understood and believed. IOW if you can speak it, it's because you can understand it. And this confession is also action, so the Gospel is understandable, believable, confessable, and thus actionable. When Paul elsewhere speaks of God's Wisdom of His Gospel message destroying the wisdom of the wise, he's telling us that God's Gospel about His Son is simple and human wisdom absurdly and arrogantly thinks itself complex and rejects as nonsense such a simplistic message. Determinism undermines God's design of volitional anthropology and mystifies God's simple, understandable, believable, confessable, actionable message to man about His Son having all authority in Heaven and on earth. Saying it cannot be understood makes it a false gospel. Destroying volitional anthropology removes responsibility from man, thus making authoritative commands empty - stripped of moral weight, relational invitation, and covenantal meaning.

With that said, having taken up an old and long-term study, I don't think "faith" is well understood, which is putting it mildly.

Have you ever heard the rather paradoxical old adage: "So close, yet so far"? That's the paradox of the Gospel. (Another paradox is that Gospel is both good AND bad news!) Plus the Gospel is actually pretty easy to understand, since even small children can grasp it!

And by the way, many false teachers and believers over the centuries have spoken their perverted version of the Gospel.

Faith is not complicated. To have the faith of my father Abraham simply means to believe God as he did!

 

[cv5]

If it was not done in the truth.... It means nothing real.

Ask yourself: are there identifyable posters here who have NEVER spoken (or understood) Biblical Truth on this thread?

Like.... literally ever, never ever?
Because by my reckoning, the answer is....yes.

Thus the occasional "discomfiture" in my replies.

But you never know if/when the light will dawn. Where there is life there is hope.

 

[Genez]

Those who are truly humble fear the Lord and those who fear the Lord would not post lies, misinformation, misrepresentations or project their failings unto others. I'm actually doing a service with my "fixing" posts by calling attention to such errors.

But you are not going to get away with anything.

Reminds me of the famous atheist on stage before a crowd, daring God to strike him dead.
God did not strike him dead.

 

[Rufus]

You are starting to sound like what I have seen called a super determinist. Better watch out now... next thing
you know you will be acknowledging the value of God's will above human will and affirming His sovereignty!

Hey...maybe Studier is beginning to catch on to the fact that man's ways are truly NOT in himself!

 

[NightTwister]

I never said I haven't experienced God. The difference between you and me is, I don't have to be in any specific place to experience Him. He is always with me. I'm sorry you only get to experience Him in certain places.

 

[studier]

I put the "hissing slithery guy" (we all know who it is), the "raging clueless guy" (ditto), and "Bible tweet harpy" (same) on ignore.

Too much man, just too much. Quenching the Spirit of Truth, disrupting and misleading is their biz. And the truth is....they are good at it!

Some are just too far gone it would seem. Unteachable, no growth, no edification, committed and entrench in bogus religious dogma.

On the other hand, the sweet savor of Bible truth and pleasant aroma of the holy conduct of the legit saints here keeps me coming back.

Yes, the bickering is bitter and degrading. As for myself, I shall endeavor to restrain my baser instincts and innate desire to aahhhhmmmm "correct" error.

One comment, I hesitate to refer to the ability to evil practice as "good". Effective, practiced, maybe, but not good. The whole system is vile. It degrades God's creation and His ability to communicate with it - it degrades Him.

 

[Rufus]

But you are not going to get away with anything.

Reminds me of the famous atheist on stage before a crowd, daring God to strike him dead.
God did not strike him dead.

Exactly! And this is why I leave it to the Lord to judge righteously, which is something you're incapable of doing.

 

[Rufus]

One comment, I hesitate to refer to the ability to evil practice as "good". Effective, practiced, maybe, but not good. The whole system is vile. It degrades God's creation and His ability to communicate with it - it degrades Him.

Nonsense! How does it degrade God to rescue helpless sinners? Did God degrade Himself when he "came down" to rescue the ancient Hebrews from Pharaoh? Aren't those who risked everything to rescue the powerless in this life usually considered heroes and worthy of acclaim and praise? Yet, you blaspheme the Almighty by claiming God degrades himself for helping the helpless poor, needy and oppressed. What manner of convoluted, twisted, perverted, profane thinking permeates your heart!?

 

[lrs68]

I never said I haven't experienced God. The difference between you and me is, I don't have to be in any specific place to experience Him. He is always with me. I'm sorry you only get to experience Him in certain places.

Anyone saved experiences God like you have but some of us get MORE!
I am talking about the MORE not what everyone else automatically gets.

 

[Magenta]

And what makes you think I have "failing willpower"? None of God's precious, efficacious gifts ever fail!

Those whose theology rests on putting confidence in the flesh cannot imagine not putting confidence in their flesh.

Flesh serves the law of sin. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. Nothing good lives in my flesh. Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”? Who can bring what is pure from the impure? No one! The flesh brings forth fruit unto death. Romans 7 v 25, Galatians 5 v 17, Romans 7 v 18, Proverbs 20 v 9, Job 14 v 4, Romans 7 v 5 (Romans 8 v 13 and James 1 v 15)

 

[Rufus]

It does not say that.
Not in the Greek.

It says, we love, because He first loved us. 1 John 4:19.

You think every Christian loves God?
He is the Word. Do you?


Not every Christian ends up loving God.
They distort God into someone they personally prefer and wish to personally love.
They love "their god" in their own image.

​

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. ​

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great ​

number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3​

​

That is why you can't stand me.

Then by definition they are NOT Christian and by the same definition, God' also doesn't love those who hate Him per Jesus' teaching in Jn 10, 14, 15 and 16. Jesus laid down his life only for His FRIENDS -- not his hate-filled enemies (Jn 15)!

 

[cv5]

One comment, I hesitate to refer to the ability to evil practice as "good". Effective, practiced, maybe, but not good. The whole system is vile. It degrades God's creation and His ability to communicate with it - it degrades Him.

I agree and stand corrected, thanks.

This degraded world has just about reached it's expiration date. Won't be long now.....

 

[Magenta]

1 Corinthians 1 v27-29 God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly and despised things of the world, and the things that are not, to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast in His presence.