Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

John 17:9 has already been discussed ... in the verse, John was praying specifically for His apostles and disciples ... later in His prayer, He prays that the world may know Him through the preaching of faithful believers.

John 17:20-23 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.





please read with clarity ... it has been repeated over and over in the pages of this thread that God reaches out to mankind ...

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

There are only 2 responses to God's Word ...

believe and receive the blessing

suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence


Also, if it was true that "scripture tell us that none seek after Him!" ... then there would be no unbelievers sitting in church pews ... yet we know there are ... unbelievers are not sitting in church pews to learn about the latest fashion or to watch football games ...
.

John 17:20-23 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Are the super-determinists wish-casting a passage into oblivion again? One that they would rather choose to delete from all existence?

Why is it always the passages that proclaim hope of salvation for everyone that they find so offensive?

 

[BillyBob]

John 17:9 has already been discussed ... in the verse, John was praying specifically for His apostles and disciples ... later in His prayer, He prays that the world may know Him through the preaching of faithful believers.

John 17:20-23 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.





please read with clarity ... it has been repeated over and over in the pages of this thread that God reaches out to mankind ...

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

There are only 2 responses to God's Word ...

believe and receive the blessing

suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence


Also, if it was true that "scripture tell us that none seek after Him!" ... then there would be no unbelievers sitting in church pews ... yet we know there are ... unbelievers are not sitting in church pews to learn about the latest fashion or to watch football games ...
.

Do you actually believe Satan’s assertion that man would not die, and therefore, that man is not dead at all, but can, by his own free will, come to God any time he so desires? Think well your answer. Remember, Adam did not come to God after the Fall, but it was God Who came to the man. It was not Adam who searched for God, but God Who called out to the man (see Gen. 3:8,9).

An unbeliever sitting in church may have come in to get out of the cold. There are always tares among the wheat. Or, they were called to be there by God, to hear His word and be drawn to Christ.

 

[cv5]

Who died and left you boss!? You truly have a high opinion of yourself, don't you? Thanks for proving how arrogant and prideful YOU are. You must be a card-carryin' WOKE member who has zero tolerance for diverse opinions, translations, interpretations, etc. Sounds like you want to CANCEL me out. Is this what they teach you to do at your church, assuming you even go to one, since Studier doesn't!?

Sorry for the chuckle emojis buddy.

But your ever-more shrill and desperate sounding wet noodle replies are nothing if not chuckle-worthy.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Did you actually have a coherent, intelligent point to make?

If you read through those exchanges you will see she often does not. She reads herself into comments
where she is not included an then accuses the other person of saying she did something when they did not. It's a pattern with her. She entered this thread some time ago doing the very same thing.

Magenta ... I thought we cleared this up yesterday ...

I take you at your word that you "still never said [ I ] did it intentionally ... the reason I believe you were referring to my inadvertence was because you submitted your post 7 minutes after I submitted my post with the words erroneously omitted and there was no post submitted with that reference between my post and your post.

so it must be another inadvertence on my part ... a thousand apologies ...

hope/pray you have a blessed day.

apparently not ... again, a thousand apologies ...

I think I read somewhere forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you ... hmmm
.

 

[Magenta]

Do you actually believe Satan’s assertion that man would not die, and therefore, that man is not dead at all, but can, by his own free will, come to God any time he so desires? Think well your answer. Remember, Adam did not come to God after the Fall, but it was God Who came to the man. It was not Adam who searched for God, but God Who called out to the man (see Gen. 3:8,9).

An unbeliever sitting in church may have come in to get out of the cold. There are always tares among the wheat. Or, they were called to be there by God, to hear His word and be drawn to Christ.

Adam had only one thing not to do but he disobeyed. One thing (among many others) that strikes me as odd is when people say Adam was perfect. Huh? Yeah, really??? He sinned. God knew he was gong to sin, and provision was already made. The first Adam was not perfect. We are perfected in the last Adam only. People also say Adam's will was free. Again, really? That is actually not anywhere in the text. Adam was of the natural world. People ought to read about sin and its connection to the natural world. Then there are those who claim human nature did not change after Adam sinned. Again, really? Scripture says we were by nature children of wrath. I really really really really doubt that Adam started out by nature as a child of wrath.

James 1 verses 14-15; 1 John 2 verse 16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .

 

[Kroogz]

Do you actually believe Satan’s assertion that man would not die, and therefore, that man is not dead at all, but can, by his own free will, come to God any time he so desires? Think well your answer. Remember, Adam did not come to God after the Fall, but it was God Who came to the man. It was not Adam who searched for God, but God Who called out to the man (see Gen. 3:8,9).

An unbeliever sitting in church may have come in to get out of the cold. There are always tares among the wheat. Or, they were called to be there by God, to hear His word and be drawn to Christ.

The point is that He draws ALL people to Himself. He doesn't exclude anyone.

We have 2 options:

1.Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ

2. Reject the Lord Jesus Christ.

We can go over every verse in the Bible about man not seeking, man not coming, man is blind, man is deaf Ect........God came after man. God sought mankind. God did something about our sin, blindness,deafness.......GRACE/MERCY.

Adams trespass affected all. MUCH MORE did the Grace gift effect ALL.

 

[cv5]

Adam had only one thing not to do but he disobeyed. One thing (among many others) that strikes me as odd is when people say Adam was perfect. Huh? Yeah, really??? He sinned. God knew he was gong to sin, and provision was already made. The first Adam was not perfect. We are perfected in the last Adam only. People also say Adam's will was free. Again, really? That is actually not anywhere in the text. Adam was of the natural world. People ought to read about sin and its connection to the natural world.

James 1 verses 14-15; 1 John 2 verse 16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .

No. Adam essentially committed suicide in a gambit to save the Woman. God was gracious and merciful and got the job done that Adam could not. Adam also knew that God would do it and redeem both her and him.

Two gardens. Two Adams. Two sinning brides. Two intense episodes of grief in making the fateful choice.

Yea....it's all there.

Good luck.

 

[Rufus]

This made me laugh out loud.

So God gives grace to the proud and humbles them with their election.

Well, what part of the passages I cited couldn't you understand? Or maybe you have a few verses that teach otherwise: That God gives grace to each and every person on the planet w/o exception?

Here's a "novel" thought for you: What if God gives his precious grace to those to whom he has given a new, circumcised heart and has also instilled into them the Fear of Himself? After all, even some FWers here do believe that salvation is a process, as I do. The immediate goal of that process (which begins at Regeneration) is the new birth from above in this age and the ultimate goal being the saints' glorification in the next one. This would resolve what you seem to think is a contradiction.

That wasn't so hard, was it?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Do you actually believe Satan’s assertion that man would not die, and therefore, that man is not dead at all, but can, by his own free will, come to God any time he so desires?

Please provide the post submitted by me wherein I stated what you claim.

Think well your answer. Remember, Adam did not come to God after the Fall, but it was God Who came to the man. It was not Adam who searched for God, but God Who called out to the man (see Gen. 3:8,9).

which is exactly what I said, BillyBob ...

please read with clarity ... it has been repeated over and over in the pages of this thread that God reaches out to mankind ...

An unbeliever sitting in church may have come in to get out of the cold.

diversion ...

There are always tares among the wheat. Or, they were called to be there by God, to hear His word and be drawn to Christ.

right ... God always makes the first move ... and God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe ... so what are we preaching? are we preaching God's Word or are we preaching man's word:

1 Corinthians 3:9-15 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
.

 

[lrs68]

Why do you insist on placing an If condition into God's word which is not there!
Blessed is the man You choose,
And cause to approach You,
Psa 65:4

If you understood Hebrew as I do naturally you would see both the word meaning and Numerical Value that shows it's not an action response set into one specific motion but it's a word that means could go either way.

In the Hebrew Psalm 65:4 reads: "Happy is the man whom Thou choosest, and bringest near, That he may dwell in Thy courts.

You should really understand the Old Testament wasn't written originally in English so English is the last language one should try to interpret from.

He MAY dwell doesn't mean he always will because man has free will to choose like you do by using the English translation as if it was the original language God used in the Bible.

 

[Rufus]

The point is that He draws ALL people to Himself. He doesn't exclude anyone.

We have 2 options:

1.Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ

2. Reject the Lord Jesus Christ.

We can go over every verse in the Bible about man not seeking, man not coming, man is blind, man is deaf Ect........God came after man. God sought mankind. God did something about our sin, blindness,deafness.......GRACE/MERCY.

Adams trespass affected all. MUCH MORE did the Grace gift effect ALL.

Wrong! God hates the prideful (Prov 6:16-17). He even mocks them!

 

[Cameron143]

John 17:20-23 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Are the super-determinists wish-casting a passage into oblivion again? One that they would rather choose to delete from all existence?

Why is it always the passages that proclaim hope of salvation for everyone that they find so offensive?

Praying for those who will believe is not praying for people to believe, but praying for those who actually come to believe. We know Jesus is not praying for the world because He tells us that He isn't. Instead, just as He prayed for God to protect those given to Him that they will be protected in the world, the same would be true for all believers.

 

[BillyBob]

The point is that He draws ALL people to Himself. He doesn't exclude anyone.

That is a totally ridicules thought! If He drew all people to Himself, all would come.

 

[Genez]

No reconciliation would be possible.

Mankind would have been "forsaken."

Just like the dinosaur was.

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” ​

(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”). Matthew 27:46​

The Cross was the atonement that allowed for man to continue living, in spite of man would not deserve to be alive otherwise.

 

[Rufus]

If you understood Hebrew as I do naturally you would see both the word meaning and Numerical Value that shows it's not an action response set into one specific motion but it's a word that means could go either way.

In the Hebrew Psalm 65:4 reads: "Happy is the man whom Thou choosest, and bringest near, That he may dwell in Thy courts.

You should really understand the Old Testament wasn't written originally in English so English is the last language one should try to interpret from.

He MAY dwell doesn't mean he always will because man has free will to choose like you do by using the English translation as if it was the original language God used in the Bible.

Then what reason does a man have for being "happy" if he has zero assurance that God has actually brought him near to Himself? After all, in the final analysis that man has to place his trust in himself that he can whip his "freewill" into shape. He has to trust his own wicked and utterly deceitful heart to get him into the pearly gates.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Adam had only one thing not to do but he disobeyed. One thing (among many others) that strikes me as odd is when people say Adam was perfect. Huh?

What God says about what He created ... very good ... (Gen 1:31) ... good = pleasant.

And God placed Adam in Eden ... Eden = pleasure.


Psalm 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
.

 

[Genez]

I know what would happen to me if God hadn't sent his only Begotten Son into the world to pay my sin debt! Does that count?

All of us... not just you.

 

[Rufus]

Mankind would have been "forsaken."

Just like the dinosaur was.

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” ​

(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”). Matthew 27:46​

The Cross was the atonement that allowed for man to continue living, in spite of man would not deserve to be alive otherwise.

As it has been the case, is the case and will be the case until the end of age for most of mankind. Any other pearls of wisdom you have for us today?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Adam essentially committed suicide in a gambit to save the Woman. God was gracious and merciful and got the job done that Adam could not. Adam also knew that God would do it and redeem both her and him.

Adam obeyed God's Word ...

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
.

 

[Kroogz]

Wrong! God hates the prideful (Prov 6:16-17). He even mocks them!

So you were a humble man. That is why you received His Grace.