Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

Aaahhmmmm no. I mean TOTALLY YES

Mal 3:16
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: (CAUSE) and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name (EFFECT).

BTW, it is LIKEWISE those Israelites who HELD ON to the covenant IN FAITH who are of those that God preserved back in the days of Elijah.

1Ki 19:18
Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

***************************************************************************

And you were foolish enough to think that God would force Baal worshippers to love Him, contrary to their will and desire?

1Ki 18:40
And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.

2Ki 10:19
Now therefore call unto me all the prophets of Baal, all his servants, and all his priests; let none be wanting: for I have a great sacrifice to do to Baal; whosoever shall be wanting, he shall not live. But Jehu did it in subtilty, to the intent that he might destroy the worshippers of Baal.

FTFY! Since in your universe salvation is all about the response of sinners, you get the opportunity to brag on how smart and wise and intelligent and spiritually savvy believers are for choosing to buy fire insurance.

 

[Rufus]

which is what studier and I are discussing if you would read with clarity instead of searching incessantly for objections to what is being discussed.





other than the fact that Enoch was not the only believer in Adam's line ... no dispute





God showed "efficacious grace" to Cain and Cain rejected.

When God reaches out to mankind, there are only 2 options, Rufus,

1) believe
2) suppress the truth in unrighteousness

just because someone believes when God reaches out, that does not take away from God, in any way, shape, or form ... although, for whatever reason, you and others have come to the erroneous conclusion that if someone believes when God reaches out that somehow means man is somehow "boasting" or "glorying in himself" ... when that is not the case at all ... that is all made up "unbiblical hoaxing and humbuggery, blatherskite and baloney*" (to coin a phrase).

just because someone suppresses the truth in unrighteousness when God reaches out, that does not take away from God, in any way, shape or form ... God is still God ... He knows it ... satan knows it ... the only ones who do not know it are the ones who continuously insist that when someone suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, that is due to God not reaching out to them ... again made up "unbiblical hoaxing and humbuggery, blatherskite and baloney*" (to coin a phrase).

* "unbiblical hoaxing and humbuggery, blatherskite and baloney" courtesy of CV5.
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Did I say Enoch was? I was commenting on ONE specific passage of lineage in Gen 5. Learn how to read already.

 

[BillyBob]

They (those who preach the TULIP system) preach another Jesus,

a Jesus who doesn't love everyone
a Jesus who not die for everyone and
a Jesus who does not want all to be saved.

I would say places it outside of Christian orthodoxy.

I would say that it teaches the truth!
Christ’s prayers and atonement are not only particular—‘for them which Thou hast given Me’—but also exclusive, ‘not for the world’" (see Jn. 17:9).

It is clear that you still believe Satan's lie
Gen 3:4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
You instead believe that a dead man can seek and find God, even though scripture tell us that none seek after Him!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Did I say Enoch was? I was commenting on ONE specific passage of lineage in Gen 5. Learn how to read already.

I do know how to read ... which is why I clarified what I clarified ... we are in agreement and you can't even agree when we agree ... what is wrong with you ???!!!

go eat some chocolate and chill out ... get a decent thought in your brain and come back when you're ready to discuss God's Word with the honor and respect deserving of Scripture.
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[reneweddaybyday]

I would say that it teaches the truth!
Christ’s prayers and atonement are not only particular—‘for them which Thou hast given Me’—but also exclusive, ‘not for the world’" (see Jn. 17:9).

John 17:9 has already been discussed ... in the verse, John was praying specifically for His apostles and disciples ... later in His prayer, He prays that the world may know Him through the preaching of faithful believers.

John 17:20-23 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

It is clear that you still believe Satan's lie
Gen 3:4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
You instead believe that a dead man can seek and find God, even though scripture tell us that none seek after Him!

please read with clarity ... it has been repeated over and over in the pages of this thread that God reaches out to mankind ...

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

There are only 2 responses to God's Word ...

believe and receive the blessing

suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence


Also, if it was true that "scripture tell us that none seek after Him!" ... then there would be no unbelievers sitting in church pews ... yet we know there are ... unbelievers are not sitting in church pews to learn about the latest fashion or to watch football games ...
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[Rufus]

Yes, I would say Enoch seems to have chosen well in responding to God - having faith in God, walking with God, and pleasing God, all of which words and actions have by God's grace been made available to [MANY] us to choose as well.

FTFY!

I wouldn't want you to believe the pernicious error that God is a God of EOE. After all, God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble (Prov 3:34; Jas 4:6; Ps 10:4, etc.). Besides all these, you should try to remember the "seven things the Lord hates": The top one being PRIDE (a haughty look, cf. Prov 6:16). And the last time I checked the pulse of the world, I couldn't find a humble bone in the vast majority of its inhabitants.

God truly does not treat all mankind equally! And this makes God's election of myself a most humbling experience for this wretch!

 

[Rufus]

I do know how to read ... which is why I clarified what I clarified ... we are in agreement and you can't even agree when we agree ... what is wrong with you ???!!!

go eat some chocolate and chill out ... get a decent thought in your brain and come back when you're ready to discuss God's Word with the honor and respect deserving of Scripture.
.

If you knew how to read, you wouldn't have made such a stupid comment about my take on Enoch and the other descendants of Adam in Gen 5.

 

[BillyBob]

In other words, David is saying if what God does causes a man to approach God that man is BLESSED.

Why do you insist on placing an If condition into God's word which is not there!
Blessed is the man You choose,
And cause to approach You,
Psa 65:4

 

[Magenta]

Why do you insist on placing an If condition into God's word which is not there!
Blessed is the man You choose,
And cause to approach You,
Psa 65:4

There is a long history of people reading/adding into what is said what is simply not there.

There is also a propensity to remove things from what is written when they don't like what is said.

They will talk abut words having precise meanings and then completely gut that meaning to suit their false doctrine.

Or just rewrite verses, like 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

FTFY!

quit "fixing" posts submitted by others ... studier is quite capable of including the word you want and studier did not include it because that is not what studier meant ... btw, you do the same thing with Scripture.

I wouldn't want you to believe the pernicious error that God is a God of EOE. After all, God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble (Prov 3:34; Jas 4:6; Ps 10:4, etc.).

... which would apply to those who manipulate Scripture in the endless pursuit of trying to align what the Author wrote to their dogma.

Besides all these, you should try to remember the "seven things the Lord hates": The top one being PRIDE (a haughty look, cf. Prov 6:16). And the last time I checked the pulse of the world, I couldn't find a humble bone in the vast majority of its inhabitants.

would that include you? ... you who doesn't want to learn the lesson of the good samaritan which is to be a good neighbor ... so instead you focus on the half-dead guy so you can continue in your vicious rants against fellow believers ... you can't even agree when we agree without some sort of slur ... smh ...

God truly does not treat all mankind equally! And this makes God's election of myself a most humbling experience for this wretch!

"humbling" ... "wretch" ... certainly words you do not abide by when it comes to what we see plastered on the pages of this thread ...
.

 

[Rufus]

John 17:9 has already been discussed ... in the verse, John was praying specifically for His apostles and disciples ... later in His prayer, He prays that the world may know Him through the preaching of faithful believers.

John 17:20-23 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.





please read with clarity ... it has been repeated over and over in the pages of this thread that God reaches out to mankind ...

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

There are only 2 responses to God's Word ...

believe and receive the blessing

suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence


Also, if it was true that "scripture tell us that none seek after Him!" ... then there would be no unbelievers sitting in church pews ... yet we know there are ... unbelievers are not sitting in church pews to learn about the latest fashion or to watch football games ...
.

The verse you highlighted in Jn 17 is taken out of context. Jesus did not say that the world would come to believe in Him by realizing that He is the Sent One of God. The world would "know" ABOUT Christ due to the growth of Christ's Church through both flocks of his sheep, most especially the Gentile sheep. Christ did, however, explicitly omit the world from his prayer -- the world that He supposedly has loved for all eternity!

John 17:9
9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
NIV

Can't get any clearer than this! And Jesus did not pray that the world would know him, as in come to saving knowledge. You read that presupposition into the text. Rather then text says that world may know something ABOUT him! Very many in the world know quite a bit about Christ but have no personal, intimate, covenantal relationship with him. They do not know Him personally. But according to you, Jesus must have changed the demands of the gospel. All the world has to know ABOUT Christ is that the Father sent Him into the world.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If you knew how to read, you wouldn't have made such a stupid comment about my take on Enoch and the other descendants of Adam in Gen 5.

if you knew about the renewed mind, it wouldn't have caused such a rankle in your brain


Romans 12:1-5 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
.

 

[Rufus]

quit "fixing" posts submitted by others ... studier is quite capable of including the word you want and studier did not include it because that is not what studier meant ... btw, you do the same thing with Scripture.





... which would apply to those who manipulate Scripture in the endless pursuit of trying to align what the Author wrote to their dogma.





would that include you? ... you who doesn't want to learn the lesson of the good samaritan which is to be a good neighbor ... so instead you focus on the half-dead guy so you can continue in your vicious rants against fellow believers ... you can't even agree when we agree without some sort of slur ... smh ...





"humbling" ... "wretch" ... certainly words you do not abide by when it comes to what we see plastered on the pages of this thread ...
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Who died and left you boss!? You truly have a high opinion of yourself, don't you? Thanks for proving how arrogant and prideful YOU are. You must be a card-carryin' WOKE member who has zero tolerance for diverse opinions, translations, interpretations, etc. Sounds like you want to CANCEL me out. Is this what they teach you to do at your church, assuming you even go to one, since Studier doesn't!?

 

[Magenta]

The verse you highlighted in Jn 17 is taken out of context. Jesus did not say that the world would come to believe in Him by realizing that He is the Sent One of God. The world would "know" ABOUT Christ due to the growth of Christ's Church through both flocks of his sheep, most especially the Gentile sheep. Christ did, however, explicitly omit the world from his prayer -- the world that He supposedly has loved for all eternity!

John 17:9
9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
NIV

Can't get any clearer than this! And Jesus did not pray that the world would know him, as in come to saving knowledge. You read that presupposition into the text. Rather then text says that world may know something ABOUT him! Very many in the world know quite a bit about Christ but have no personal, intimate, covenantal relationship with him. They do not know Him personally. But according to you, Jesus must have changed the demands of the gospel. All the world has to know ABOUT Christ is that the Father sent Him into the world.

The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth.

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

 

[Rufus]

if you knew about the renewed mind, it wouldn't have caused such a rankle in your brain


Romans 12:1-5 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
.

Did you actually have a coherent, intelligent point to make?

 

[Magenta]

John 3 verses 19-20 and from Psalm 10 verse 4 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. The wicked reviles the Lord

 

[Rufus]

Do you know what would have happened if God did not pay the penalty for mankind's sins?

What?

I know what would happen to me if God hadn't sent his only Begotten Son into the world to pay my sin debt! Does that count?

 

[Kroogz]

After all, God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble
And this makes God's election of myself a most humbling experience for this wretch!

This made me laugh out loud.

So God gives grace to the proud and humbles them with their election.

 

[Magenta]

Did you actually have a coherent, intelligent point to make?

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ercise-free-will.218061/page-474#post-5559929

If you read through those exchanges you will see she often does not. She reads herself into comments
where she is not included an then accuses the other person of saying she did something when they did
not. It's a pattern with her. She entered this thread some time ago doing the very same thing.

Which is really odd, because she went on about how Christians should/should not be acting while she threw false accusations around.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Who died and left you boss!?

rolleyes ... right back atchya as you go around "FTFY" ...

You truly have a high opinion of yourself, don't you?

nope

Thanks for proving how arrogant and prideful YOU are. You must be a card-carryin' WOKE member who has zero tolerance for diverse opinions, translations, interpretations, etc.

awwwhahahahahaha!!! too too funny coming from you!!!

Sounds like you want to CANCEL me out.

on the contrary, Rufus, I like discussing Scripture with you ... however, you come across as boorish and quick tempered at times ... which reflects on your witness. We are talking about the very Word of God here ... we're not in some barroom brawl ... get a grip.

Is this what they teach you to do at your church, assuming you even go to one, since Studier doesn't!?

more of your nonsensical verbal dysentery.
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