Exactly. His charge against us holds as much weight as my charge against him
If belief is defined as @rogerg defines it.......He is also a "worker" for.
He and the calvies don't have the belief market cornered with a special kind of belief.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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If belief is defined as @rogerg defines it.......He is also a "worker" for.
He and the calvies don't have the belief market cornered with a special kind of belief.
I didn't say that and no "FWR" on this thread has said that.
You believe. I believe.......We both must be workers for then.......You DO NOT have a special belief.
a=a
1=1
belief=belief
This is what you said: "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.....I will go with Paul. Not the calvie theory.". Did you not mean that your belief saved you?
Yup, sure is, so then you're saying that your belief didn't save you? Which is it, your belief, or Christ? there is only one who saves.
I believe all who are born again are members of the one body of the Lord Jesus Christ ... called "the church" in Scripture ... the Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the body.
We are the ones who claim we're "Catholic" or "Lutheran" or "Baptist" or "Calvinist" or __________ (fill in the blank).
God sees all born again ones as one body in the Lord Jesus Christ ... each member in the one body has been placed in the body where it has pleased God. All members are needful and necessary. We are in no position to claim that one member is more necessary than another ... or take it upon ourselves to remove vital members from the body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:14-27
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
We are the ones who cause division/dissension (schism) in the body ... God's desire is that all members of the one body have the same care one for another.
.
Not the problem.....
You express a hatred for mankind.
That man is good for nothing.
Each human soul is so precious to God that he willingly endured the Cross.
In effect... what you say about man makes Jesus a fool for dying for us.
And... "the heart is deceitful" passage you folks keep citing is not understood in its proper context.
It is a mess what you are thinking.
It makes God's love for man a hypocrisy.
What you snidely mislabel as "free will"?
God calls volition.
He has given man the freedom to use his volition.
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves
this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond
the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as
for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.”
Joshua 24:15
However, for them people are born unable to believe the Good News, until God activates them first, and they are unaware of this activation, and then God bequeaths them "belief."
Their notion of belief and the process is not supported by scripture.
The Lord Jesus Christ. Your belief didn't save. Nor did mine.
If you claim my belief or any "FWR" belief saved them......Then that goes for YOU also.......You believe. I believe.
Belief=Belief.
T
Tex_MidwesternerNW
Guest
Romans
Psalm 32:1-2 "Oh what joy for those whose disobedience is forgiven, whose sin is put out of sight! Yes what joy for those whose record the Lord has cleared of guilt,* whose lives are lived in complete honesty!" 32:2 Greek version reads of sin. Compare Rom 4:7
But Paul goes and states clearly "He was fully convinced that God is able to do whatever he promises. And because of Abraham's faith, God counted him as righteous. And when God counted him as righteous, it wasn't just for Abraham's benefit. It was recorded for our benefit too, assuring us that God will also count us as righteous if we believe in him, the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead (Rom. 4:21-24 NLT, Tyndale House)
Yes, it is faith that brings us to offer money. It is. But by the Grace of our Lord, we find the threshing floor swept and the wheat ready to be milled.
Romans 4:7-8, "Oh what joy for those whose disobedience is forgiven, whose sins are put out of sight. Yes what joy for those whose record the Lord clears of sin.*"
Psalm 32:1-2 "Oh what joy for those whose disobedience is forgiven, whose sin is put out of sight! Yes what joy for those whose record the Lord has cleared of guilt,* whose lives are lived in complete honesty!" 32:2 Greek version reads of sin. Compare Rom 4:7
But Paul goes and states clearly "He was fully convinced that God is able to do whatever he promises. And because of Abraham's faith, God counted him as righteous. And when God counted him as righteous, it wasn't just for Abraham's benefit. It was recorded for our benefit too, assuring us that God will also count us as righteous if we believe in him, the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead (Rom. 4:21-24 NLT, Tyndale House)
Yes, it is faith that brings us to offer money. It is. But by the Grace of our Lord, we find the threshing floor swept and the wheat ready to be milled.
I don't have a hatred of mankind. Actually, quite the contrary. But I also know what man is. So did the psalmist: what is man that Thou art mindful of him? If you had the mind of Christ you would also know what was in man.
So...just more poor discernment.
Also, serving God and choosing was always part of the old covenant. Volition was never the problem. Having a heart that desired to do so has always been man's problem since the onset of sin.
T
Tex_MidwesternerNW
Guest
I don't understand your post above. I didn't make that claim, you did
You posted :
"Like I said.......I will stick with Paul.
What must I do to be saved?
Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ...... "
T
Tex_MidwesternerNW
Guest
But what does the Lord say about his coming? Does he say, get some sleep and pick heads of wheat on Sabbath? Or does he say you should hand over the deed to your home and join a convent?
T
Tex_MidwesternerNW
Guest
So, why tear down your barn just to have more room for grain? Does this make any sense? Perhaps what rest God intends for his chosen people is greater than the works we commit to it.
Matthew 12 (NLT, Tyndale House)
Verses 3-8: "Jesus said to them, "Haven't you read in the Scriptures what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He went into the house of God, and he and his companions broke the law by eating the sacred loaves of bread that only the priests are allowed to eat. And haven't you read in the law of Moses that the priests on duty in the Temple may work on the Sabbath? I tell you, there is one here who is even greater than the Temple! But you would not have condemned my innocent disciples if you knew the meaning of this Scripture: 'I want to show you mercy, not offer sacrifices.'* For the Son of Man* is Lord, even over the Sabbath!" (Hosea 6:6)
Mark 2 (NLT, Tyndale House)
Verses 23-28: ""One Sabbath day as Jesus was walking through some grainfields, his disciples began breaking off heads of grain to eat. But the Pharisees said to Jesus, "Look, why are they breaking the law by harvesting grain on the Sabbath?" "Jesus said to them, "Haven't you ever read in the Scriptures what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He went into the house of God (during the days when Abiathar was high priest) and broke the law by eating the sacred loaves of bread that only the priests are allowed to eat. He also gave some to his companions." Then Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made to meet the needs of people, and not people to meet the requirements of the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even over the Sabbath!"
Luke 6 (NLT, Tyndale House)
Verses 1-5: ""One Sabbath day as Jesus was walking through some grainfields, his disciples broke off heads of grain, rubbed off the husks, and ate the grain. But some Pharisees said, "Why are you breaking the law by harvesting grain on the Sabbath?" Jesus replied, "Haven't you read in the Scriptures what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He went into the house of God and broke the law by eating the sacred loaves of bread that only the priests can eat. He also gave some to his companions." And Jesus added, "The Son of Man* is Lord, even over the Sabbath.""
Luke 12:16-21 (NLT)
"Then he told them a story: "A rich man had a fertile farm that produced fine crops. He said to himself, 'What should I do? I don't have room for all my crops.' Then he said, "I know! I'll tear down my barns and build bigger ones. Then I'll have room enough to store all my wheat and other goods. And I'll sit back and say to myself, "My friend, you have enough stored away for years to come. Now take it easy! Eat, drink, and be merry!"' "But God said to him, 'You fool! You will die this very night. Then who will get everything you worked for?' "Yes, a person is a fool to store up earthly wealth but not have a rich relationship with God."
Matthew 12 (NLT, Tyndale House)
Verses 3-8: "Jesus said to them, "Haven't you read in the Scriptures what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He went into the house of God, and he and his companions broke the law by eating the sacred loaves of bread that only the priests are allowed to eat. And haven't you read in the law of Moses that the priests on duty in the Temple may work on the Sabbath? I tell you, there is one here who is even greater than the Temple! But you would not have condemned my innocent disciples if you knew the meaning of this Scripture: 'I want to show you mercy, not offer sacrifices.'* For the Son of Man* is Lord, even over the Sabbath!" (Hosea 6:6)
Mark 2 (NLT, Tyndale House)
Verses 23-28: ""One Sabbath day as Jesus was walking through some grainfields, his disciples began breaking off heads of grain to eat. But the Pharisees said to Jesus, "Look, why are they breaking the law by harvesting grain on the Sabbath?" "Jesus said to them, "Haven't you ever read in the Scriptures what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He went into the house of God (during the days when Abiathar was high priest) and broke the law by eating the sacred loaves of bread that only the priests are allowed to eat. He also gave some to his companions." Then Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made to meet the needs of people, and not people to meet the requirements of the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even over the Sabbath!"
Luke 6 (NLT, Tyndale House)
Verses 1-5: ""One Sabbath day as Jesus was walking through some grainfields, his disciples broke off heads of grain, rubbed off the husks, and ate the grain. But some Pharisees said, "Why are you breaking the law by harvesting grain on the Sabbath?" Jesus replied, "Haven't you read in the Scriptures what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He went into the house of God and broke the law by eating the sacred loaves of bread that only the priests can eat. He also gave some to his companions." And Jesus added, "The Son of Man* is Lord, even over the Sabbath.""
Luke 12:16-21 (NLT)
"Then he told them a story: "A rich man had a fertile farm that produced fine crops. He said to himself, 'What should I do? I don't have room for all my crops.' Then he said, "I know! I'll tear down my barns and build bigger ones. Then I'll have room enough to store all my wheat and other goods. And I'll sit back and say to myself, "My friend, you have enough stored away for years to come. Now take it easy! Eat, drink, and be merry!"' "But God said to him, 'You fool! You will die this very night. Then who will get everything you worked for?' "Yes, a person is a fool to store up earthly wealth but not have a rich relationship with God."
That's about it. No lambano, no dechomai, no personal heartfelt repentance, no personal faith, no personal belief, no volitional entering into the covenant, no I DO to the marriage proposal, no eating of the Passover Lamb, no crossing of the Jordan?
Well then we must conclude that such a person is not saved.
T
Tex_MidwesternerNW
Guest
[Mat 8:10, 26 KJV] 10 When Jesus heard [it], he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. ...
26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
[Mat 9:2, 22, 29 KJV] 2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. ...
22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour. ...
29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
[Mat 14:31 KJV] 31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth [his] hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
[Mat 15:28 KJV] 28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
[Mat 17:20 KJV] 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
[Mar 5:34 KJV] 34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.
[Mar 10:52 KJV] 52 And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
[Mar 11:22 KJV] 22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
[Luk 5:20 KJV] 20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
[Luk 7:9, 50 KJV] 9 When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. ...
50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
[Luk 8:48 KJV] 48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
[Luk 17:19 KJV] 19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
[Luk 18:8, 42 KJV] 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? ...
42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
[Act 3:16 KJV] 16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
[Act 6:8 KJV] 8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
[Act 14:9 KJV] 9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,
[Act 15:9 KJV] 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[Act 20:21 KJV] 21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.