Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

that would be changing your will with his will

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

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[Just_A__Follower]

It is true because it has proven itself to be true, so I disagree.

That’s exactly what a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Confucianist, Sikh, Jew, or I’m sure an ancient Egyptian would say. Like I said we have faith that it is true just as they all have faith that their beliefs are true. All of humanity walks by faith no matter their beliefs. If you can prove Jesus is God then I would maybe try to put that information out there because you’d be the only one that has been able to do so in almost 2000 years. Christianity could be way over the maybe 20% of world population it’s at now.

 

[Jordon]

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

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Yep the will is in the message

 

[HeIsHere]

That’s exactly what a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Confucianist, Sikh, Jew, or I’m sure an ancient Egyptian would say. Like I said we have faith that it is true just as they all have faith that their beliefs are true. All of humanity walks by faith no matter their beliefs. If you can prove Jesus is God then I would maybe try to put that information out there because you’d be the only one that has been able to do so in almost 2000 years. Christianity could be way over the maybe 20% of world population it’s at now.

They may say it but until they can demonstrate its truth they are merely words.

My point is their "faith" as in "set of beliefs" is not able to stand up to scrutiny.

 

[Jordon]

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

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I just wonder if this message doesn't burn in a persons heart will they still yield themselves ?

According to his word and the witnesses accounts of his true disciples they said his word burned in there hearts, I do wonder if his will caused that to happen ?

 

[Just_A__Follower]

They may say it but until they can demonstrate its truth they are merely words.

My point is their "faith" as in "set of beliefs" is not able to stand up to scrutiny.

I agree just as our faith does not stand up to scrutiny in their eyes. Just as we cannot demonstrate Christianity is truth.

 

[Jordon]

I agree just as our faith does not stand up to scrutiny in their eyes. Just as we cannot demonstrate Christianity is truth.

Depends who your talking to, but really just because you can't demonstrate the gospel is true doesn't mean somebody else can't, people with experience will be able to no problem.

People who have identified and solved many problems in life because of the gospel will be

People who have been able to identify spiritual wickedness in there life because of the gospel will be able to.

People who have there life's changed will be,

People who have had Demons cast out will be.

People who have been healed will be.

Where as people who use circular reasoning won't be able to

 

[Jordon]

That’s exactly what a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Confucianist, Sikh, Jew, or I’m sure an ancient Egyptian would say. Like I said we have faith that it is true just as they all have faith that their beliefs are true. All of humanity walks by faith no matter their beliefs. If you can prove Jesus is God then I would maybe try to put that information out there because you’d be the only one that has been able to do so in almost 2000 years. Christianity could be way over the maybe 20% of world population it’s at now.

The written word of God proves Jesus was God in the flesh ? Don't you believe that ?

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Depends who your talking to, but really just because you can't demonstrate the gospel is true doesn't mean somebody else can't, people with experience will be able to no problem.

People who have identified and solved many problems in life because of the gospel will be

People who have been able to identify spiritual wickedness in there life because of the gospel will be able to.

People who have there life's changed will be,

People who have had Demons cast out will be.

People who have been healed will be.

Where as people who use circular reasoning won't be able to

all of those listed can only prove to themselves. There’s no way to physically prove the spiritual since others can’t see the spiritual. Sure someone could look at me going from an alcoholic of 20 years to sober for 4 years. I believe it was His Spirit but I can’t prove it was His Spirit to anyone else. I would first have to prove His Spirit exists, which is unprovable. All they see is I quit drinking. They are unable to see the spiritual side of it. We can prove the effect(physical) of the Gospel has but we can’t prove the cause(spiritual). An alcoholic could go to AA or convert to Islam and stop drinking. There are multiple possible causes for every effect.

Let’s say Jim and Tom are hell raisin drinking buddies. Jim picks up a Bible one day and reads it. His life does a 180 and the next year he’s giving his testimony in a celebrate recovery group. You and I would see the Holy Spirit at work in Jim. Tom on the other hand is still mad he lost his drinking buddy. And because he still doesn’t believe in God, he says that Jim has done been brainwashed(which probably would be a good term for baptism). Anyways Tom believes Jim quit drinking based off him making himself believe something that isn’t true. Jim has a faith in a new truth and Tom still has faith in his old truth.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

The written word of God proves Jesus was God in the flesh ? Don't you believe that ?

No I don’t believe it proves it just as I don’t believe the Quran proves Islam or the Vedas proves Hinduism. If the Bible proved it then everyone who read it would be a follower out of pure fear of God. This is why using the Bible to prove the Bible is pointless. Using the Bible to witness to a atheist is pointless(trust me I was one). That would be like me trying to convince you that Harry Potter truly existed. If you believe the book is fiction from the start then it won’t prove anything to you. You have to have faith in the source before believing it can reveal truth. I believe the Bible is true because I have faith that it is and mainly because of let’s say spiritual events in my life.

 

[Jordon]

No I don’t believe it proves it just as I don’t believe the Quran proves Islam or the Vedas proves Hinduism. If the Bible proved it then everyone who read it would be a follower out of pure fear of God. This is why using the Bible to prove the Bible is pointless. Using the Bible to witness to a atheist is pointless(trust me I was one). That would be like me trying to convince you that Harry Potter truly existed. If you believe the book is fiction from the start then it won’t prove anything to you. You have to have faith in the source before believing it can reveal truth. I believe the Bible is true because I have faith that it is and mainly because of let’s say spiritual events in my life.

Yep your doing what atheists do and your using circular reasoning to disprove what somebody can't prove to you, directly, but even when people who take this attitude, where to have many all saying they have seen things of a spiritual nature, they would still say stuff like this, and the main reason will be that they want to live how they want, but you can bet that they know God is real, because God would have made them convicted at some stage,

 

[Jordon]

all of those listed can only prove to themselves. There’s no way to physically prove the spiritual since others can’t see the spiritual. Sure someone could look at me going from an alcoholic of 20 years to sober for 4 years. I believe it was His Spirit but I can’t prove it was His Spirit to anyone else. I would first have to prove His Spirit exists, which is unprovable. All they see is I quit drinking. They are unable to see the spiritual side of it. We can prove the effect(physical) of the Gospel has but we can’t prove the cause(spiritual). An alcoholic could go to AA or convert to Islam and stop drinking. There are multiple possible causes for every effect.

Let’s say Jim and Tom are hell raisin drinking buddies. Jim picks up a Bible one day and reads it. His life does a 180 and the next year he’s giving his testimony in a celebrate recovery group. You and I would see the Holy Spirit at work in Jim. Tom on the other hand is still mad he lost his drinking buddy. And because he still doesn’t believe in God, he says that Jim has done been brainwashed(which probably would be a good term for baptism). Anyways Tom believes Jim quit drinking based off him making himself believe something that isn’t true. Jim has a faith in a new truth and Tom still has faith in his old truth.

all circular reasoning again this

 

[HeIsHere]

I agree just as our faith does not stand up to scrutiny in their eyes. Just as we cannot demonstrate Christianity is truth.

I think Christianity does if one is willing to take a very deep dive and escape one's bias.
Bias is typically the bigger problem.

There are stories of people doing the research and finding Christianity to have the most credibility and the best ability to withstand scrutiny, C. S. Lewis being one of many.

 

[HeIsHere]

The written word of God proves Jesus was God in the flesh ? Don't you believe that ?

That is only for the elect.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Yep your doing what atheists do and your using circular reasoning to disprove what somebody can't prove to you, directly, but even when people who take this attitude, where to have many all saying they have seen things of a spiritual nature, they would still say stuff like this, and the main reason will be that they want to live how they want, but you can bet that they know God is real, because God would have made them convicted at some stage,

who said I was trying to disprove anything? You just like to argue with people and for some reason seem to be very defensive.

I agree that most if not all people believe there is a god as I kinda did when I called myself an atheist. I was more agnostic most of time. You could even come close to proving there is a god or creator simply by the unexplainables of the creation which is why simply using science is a good tactic with agnostics and atheists. It’s something they already have faith in. Now when it comes to proving Jesus is The God, and not the gods or higher powers of all other religions we only have books and testimonies. Most other religions also have books and they all have testimonies. Would they hold up in the court of law today? No. We would need eye witnesses and those are no longer here. It comes down to a person’s faith and faith is a very very powerful thing. Faith that Buddhism is true currently has 19 monks walking 2,300 miles from Texas to D.C. for peace. I can guarantee you wouldn’t be able to prove that Jesus was more than a wise teacher to them.

 

[Genez]

You're right!
I guess I should have accused you of being an evolutionist when you used the monkey image?

And, I would have explained it to you perfectly, because I know why I chose it.
The one who has been exposed has no good answer for the choice made.
And, I have witnessed to how the occult types send off signals that are not supposed to be detected by naive Christians
when they have embedded themselves amongst them.

So? My George Burns, monkey?
Why I chose it?

What we are right now compared to what we shall be in a resurrection body?
It is like a monkey with a supernaturally endowed intelligence (by the filling of the Spirit) with which enables us to think in terms of the jungle/world we are now live in. And, also in terms of the place we are destined to be at home in forever.

Not about evolution .....
If you had any common sense. Reading enough of my posts, clearly would reveal that it would be the last thing I would want to prove.
But you got to find something now, because one of your own tribe has been exposed....

False doctrine creates tribal thinking.

 

[Jordon]

who said I was trying to disprove anything? You just like to argue with people and for some reason seem to be very defensive.

insinuation getting common with you now. It's a debate, where if you don't know how to debate then you have no argument .

I agree that most if not all people believe there is a god.

That would be God

as I kinda did when I called myself an atheist. I was more agnostic most of time..

by the sounds of it your still behaving like one.

You could even come close to proving there is a god or creator simply by the unexplainables of the creation which is why simply using science is a good tactic with agnostics and atheists. It’s something they already have faith in. Now when it comes to proving Jesus is The God, and not the gods or higher powers of all other religions we only have books and testimonies. Most other religions also have books and they all have testimonies. Would they hold up in the court of law today? No. We would need eye witnesses and those are no longer here. It comes down to a person’s faith and faith is a very very powerful thing. Faith that Buddhism is true currently has 19 monks walking 2,300 miles from Texas to D.C. for peace. I can guarantee you wouldn’t be able to prove that Jesus was more than a wise teacher to them.

Just more circular reasoning from you.

The courts of law in Christian nations uphold Justice by God, its why we have societies that enjoy a lot more freedom that other nations.

 

[Genez]

It is a pack mentality for sure.

Agree..

The air of confidence in false doctrine is really something to behold.

The fact that they cannot or will not acknowledge that they impugn the character of God demonstrates the level to which they are deceived I think, because it is so obvious.

It is like coming upon a street gang of juveniles who are bonded with one another, and you are the foreigner in their midsts.

After all... what follows being a baby Christian is being a juvenile.
And, gang mentality can easily have a distrust and dislike for adult thinking.
(I bet Rufus would love to jump on that one)

All Magenta has to do?
Is to admit it was a mistake (if it was one) and to change her icon.
But she seems to not care. (As if it was not a mistake)

I took my monkey down as to avoid some here misunderstanding.
But, her? She doesn't care.
Even after I provided a link to show how witches find special amusement with unicorns.
Adding to that, a woman with a tattoo of a dragon on her arm.

Too much coincidence....

 

[BillyBob]

And, I would have explained it to you perfectly, because I know why I chose it.
The one who has been exposed has no good answer for the choice made.
And, I have witnessed to how the occult types send off signals that are not supposed to be detected by naive Christians
when they have embedded themselves amongst them.

So? My George Burns, monkey?
Why I chose it?

What we are right now compared to what we shall be in a resurrection body?
It is like a monkey with a supernaturally endowed intelligence (by the filling of the Spirit) with which enables us to think in terms of the jungle/world we are now live in. And, also in terms of the place we are destined to be at home in forever.

Not about evolution .....
If you had any common sense. Reading enough of my posts, clearly would reveal that it would be the last thing I would want to prove.
But you got to find something now, because one of your own tribe has been exposed....

False doctrine creates tribal thinking.

I liked your monkey! In fact, I like it better than your current image. No explanation needed.
However, Magenta owes you no explanation either.
Perhaps she likes the color! Or, perhaps she enjoys the thought of a unicorn!

My only suggestion for you is:

1. Close your eyes and make a fist with your right hand.
2. Beat you chest and repeat after me.
“God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as Magenta who is probably a witch.”

 

[Just_A__Follower]

I think Christianity does if one is willing to take a very deep dive and escape one's bias.
Bias is typically the bigger problem.

There are stories of people doing the research and finding Christianity to have the most credibility and the best ability to withstand scrutiny, C. S. Lewis being one of many.

Bias exactly the problem. Everyone has their own reality. To prove something to someone or win a debate, you must first get them to doubt their own reality. Trying to establish a new reality on top of the existing won’t work since two truths can’t exist together. First you must cause doubt in their current reality. Once the current reality is broken a new one can be established. Their faith in the new reality can now begin to grow are long as it’s not taken away by the old as in the parable of the sower. The current crop has to be removed and the ground tilled before the new crop can be planted.

And Mere Christianity is definitely a book that I would recommend for all that are doubting their current reality.