See!
You give stupid answers.
Not correction.
Then claim I refuse correction?
You are herd bound.
The Truth will make you free of the herd.
Get sound doctrine. Please the Lord. Not your friends.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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See!
You give stupid answers.
Not correction.
Then claim I refuse correction?
You are herd bound.
The Truth will make you free of the herd.
Get sound doctrine. Please the Lord. Not your friends.
What would the basis for such favoritism by God, since all men are sinners? NO FWer has yet offered an answer to question that I have asked more times than Carter has little liver pills.
If you can find your spine, why don't you take a shot and answer?And Reformed folks do NOT believe God shows any favoritism, as the bible defines it. (See my 32,321.) So quit with your lies already.
I'm the thread "bully", according to some, don't you know? What was on your mind that was so important that you tried several times to speak with me?
Dr. Walter Martin. That man was a warrior for the sake of the truth no doubt.
FALSE! Sanctification, which includes the work of Regeneration, results in the obedience to gospel truth (1Pet 1:2; 2Thes 2:13). The Spirit's personal, subjective sanctifying work PRECEDES the obedience of faith!
I am too. I have considered trying to compile all of the lessons I have learned from interacting with folks on CC,
which caused me to amend something I cannot mention. Here are some samples:
Thus, sinful humanity retains the image of God or moral free will, so every normal adult soul is able by faith to choose to seek salvation–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19). That is why Paul went “every Sabbath to the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks” (Acts 18:4)! “He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus.” (Acts 28:23b)...
Regarding the human heart, we can see that it is “deceitful… and beyond cure” (Jer. 17:9) when it becomes calloused (cf. Matt. 23:37), but the uncalloused heart is enabled to seek salvation and find God (per Matt. 7:7 & Heb. 11:6). God’s enabling of seeking is not irresistible, it does not pry open a hardened heart, and it does not continue forever (Rom. 10:10-13, Heb. 3:12-19).
There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace or motivates good works while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime (Rom. 1:17). IOW, the ability to do good works as well as have saving faith are both due to God’s grace.
...e. an apostate (Heb. 6:4-6, 10:23-39), who once believed but became blasphemous or foolish and ship-wrecked their faith (1Tim. 1:19-20), becoming completely corrupt and callous (Matt. 13:14-15, Heb. 6:4-6).
The quest for greater Christian unity prompts me to identify the Scripture from which my interpretations of GW spring, and my Top Ten foundational Scriptures in logical order are these:
1. Formerly/at first I was without hope of salvation from meaninglessness and death. (Eph. 3:12b)
2. So I sought salvation and found God. (Matt. 7:7, Heb. 11:6b)
3. The loving God who wants all souls to learn the truth about how to be saved. (1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16)
4. Which is to believe that Jesus is Christ, whose death atoned for humanity’s sins. (1Tim. 2:5-6)
5. As taught in all inspired Scripture interpreted in light of this Gospel of salvation. (2Tim. 3:15)
6. Such interpretation of GW also teaches how to be godly after being saved. (2Tim. 3:16-17)
7. Which doctrine Jesus summarized as loving God, oneself and everyone else. (Matt. 22:37-40)
8. And which moral maturity Paul termed as the fruit of the Holy Spirit. (Gal. 5:13-23)
9. That requires persevering in saving faith and learning God’s Word. (Matt. 4:4, 10:22)
10. So that we will grant the prayer of Jesus for us to be one in our witness. (John 17:20-23)
Paul warned Christians to beware of Judaizers, who revert to teaching justification by observing the law (Gal. 4:8-5:12). In Phil. 3:1-9 Paul said, “Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord!… Watch out for those… mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision [cf. Rom. 2:29]… that comes from God and is by faith.”
Regarding the Sabbath Law, one needs to discern the correct doctrine for Christians by considering the following: 1. The first reference to the Sabbath in the OT is found in Gen. 2:2-3, “God rested from His work and rested on the seventh day and made it holy.” 2. Moses promulgated the Sabbath law as the 4th of the Ten Commandments in Exo. 20:8-11, cf. Lev. 19:3&30, Deut. 5:12-15. 3. Other OT references to the Sabbath include 2Chron. 2:4, Isa. 56:2-6, Jer. 17:21-27 and Ezek. 20:12.
In the NT we find the following regarding the Sabbath: 1. Jesus declared that he is Lord of the Sabbath and it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (in Matt. 12:1-12), healing a crippled woman on the Sabbath (in Luke 13:10-16). 2. If Jesus thought keeping the Sabbath was an important law, he would have affirmed it on these two occasions, but he did not specifically nullify it either, which jibes/harmonizes perfectly with Paul. 3. Paul taught that a person may rest on the Sabbath or not (in Col. 2:16, Gal. 4:9-11 & Rom. 14:5). 4. Hebrews encourages Christians to enter God’s Sabbath rest by persevering faith (in Heb. 3:7-4:11)....
Paul may also have written Hebrews, which warns against not entering God’s Sabbath rest by not holding firmly until the end the confidence/faith in Christ (Heb. 3:14, 4:2). Heb. 7:11-10:1 begins as follows: “If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood, why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?... Other Scriptures where Sabbath law is viewed as Levitical rather than moral (because Jesus worked by doing healing) include: Matt. 5:17-20, 12:1-8 & 12-14, Luke 13:10-17, 14:1-6, John 5:1-18 & 9:1-34.
These Scriptures indicate that the main reason Jesus was crucified was for the crime of breaking Sabbath law and claiming to be from God. We see that Jesus never taught anyone to keep the 4th commandment and never hinted that it was an eternal moral law, but instead indicated that it is merely Levitical tradition, and so Paul wrote “Do not let anyone judge you… with regard to a Sabbath day” (Col. 2:16).
Jesus taught that his righteousness (Matt. 5:10&20) surpassed and superseded that of those who obeyed and taught the law (cf. Matt. 12:5-12, 19:3-9, Heb. 7:18-10:1). The law is represented by John the Baptist in Matt. 3:11a, “I baptize you with water [WB] for repentance” [forgiveness of sins indicated in the Torah, cf. Rom. 7:4-8:17], and Spirit baptism (SB) is indicated in Matt. 3:11b, “but after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”
However, some people (“Actsists”) focus on events in Acts such as WB and glossolalia rather than on teachings in the epistles about faith/SB being what is essential (“Faithists”). The book of Acts does not teach foundational Christian doctrine but merely records what occurred during the early days of the church era as the revelation of GRFS transitioned from OT beliefs to the NT doctrine that is taught in the epistles, which never command WB or tongues as signs of SB or as essential for salvation.
The transition can be seen as occurring in Acts 16:31-34, where Paul told the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus in order to be saved, NOT to believe and be WB in order to be saved. However, the jailer and others in his family who believed in God were WB. Then in Acts 17:30-34 Paul told the Athenians to repent, which some did, but whether they were WB is not mentioned. Then in Acts 19:1-6 Paul encountered some disciples of John who had been WB but had not been taught about SB, so they received SB when Paul placed his hands on them. Then in Acts 26:16-18, when Paul recounted his calling to King Agrippa, he quoted Jesus as saying, “I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.” WB was not mentioned, which continued to be the case in Paul’s epistles....
By the last of Paul’s epistles, WB came to be understood as a good but non-essential work or rite, like physical circumcision (PT), and the basis for believing folks are filled with the HS is reflecting God’s love for everyone (Matt. 22:37-40, 1John 4:7-21, John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6 & 22, etc.). We can see this indicated by Hebrews 8:13, which says the new covenant supersedes or makes obsolete the old covenant, including the ceremonial washings (baptisms).
Then, like now, the rite of WB is rightly performed as an apt or good way of portraying saving faith in the atonement of Christ, even though the work is not required, just as PT was not required for salvation either (per Paul in Romans 3:21-5:1). WB replaced PT in the NT church per Col. 2:11-12, which says, “In Christ you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a PT done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ (SB), having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” Surely Paul did not mean to suggest that WB done by the hands of men is salvific!
Regarding speaking in tongues (SIT), the original occurrence of SIT at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) and for awhile longer was earthly languages given as a sign that fulfilled Joel 2:28-32 (cf. Isa. 28:11-12 cited in 1Cor.14:21), which reversed Babel and evangelized 3,000 people, thereby ensuring the planting of the first Christian church. However, by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth apparently it had morphed into mere pagan-like babbling (cf. Matt. 6:9), which Paul neither quashed completely nor commanded, writing that the gift would cease (1Cor. 13:8-13) as love continued forever but also that he exercised it more than anyone (1Cor. 14:18), thereby causing confusion...
Certainly, if someone suddenly is enabled to speak an unlearned earthly language, that can be verified and considered miraculous, but interpretation of babbling is impossible to verify. Thus, disagreement can continue regarding the occurrence of SIT in private prayer, although there is no Scriptural warrant for viewing it as signifying Spirit filling rather than love (John 13:35, 1John 4:7-21).
LOL
Sometimes scripture throws a wrench in "the system" so one has to reinvent it, usually that causes another set of problems.
Sanctification is now before justification
... you keep digging a bigger and bigger hole of nonsense.I know when people are haters, and really you should take a break over Christmas being mean,
You'll end up being like this stubborn Muslim one day if you don't just saying
LOL
Sometimes scripture throws a wrench in "the system" so one has to reinvent it, usually that causes another set of problems.
Sanctification is now before justification
Thanks for proving what an empty suit your truly are. Instead of addressing both passages I cited, you opt for juvenile drivel instead.
Obvious to tulipists, which I confess.
Not sure why/how they can claim with a straight face to be favored.
(A God who would hate MFWers would love TULIPists?)
well the last time I spoke to you, you put me in the league as people making horrible comments and you made up many stories about me, then you just stopped replying to posts I made to you, to me that just says your irrational
So you can try to excuse yourself all you want, but I ain't interested anymore.
The early (pre-Reformed) leachers of the Church denied salvation can be accomlished by meritorious works. At the same time, they equally denied Augustinian's views which included the total inability of the human will to call upon God and choose Him. According to the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Himself men need truth and conviction before they can be persuaded that they are desperately wicked and must relinquish the control of their souls to Jesus. What keeps them from doing this is not, as Luther mistakenly taught an inoperative will. Rather stubborn pride and self-centeredness.
The Bible says the unregenerate are: 18.... darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts.
People are willingly ignorant. Because they refuse to accept the verdic that they are sinners they will not listen or yield their sinfullness. The problem is not, as Martin Luther mistakenly thought, a defect in human WILL ITSELF but rather our heart's WILLINGNESS to surrender to the rule of God. After all, That is what rebellion is - an UNWILLINGNESS to hear the word and submit.. As early apologist Justin Martyr explained if our actions were controlled by either organic instinct or by an external force. We could not personally be held responsible for how we think or what we do.
By contrast, you offer the Reformer's idea that the human heart is iNTRINSICALLY (or ESSENTIALLY) evil. Thus the issue of salvation becomes metaphysical and ontological rather than personal (rooted our minds, motives and actions). If this is true, then any change in the human heart must also be involuntary, the result of having been ACTED UPON BY AN INFLUENCE external to ourselves.
This totally agrees with Augustine's "discovery" that people (even in their earliest state of development are already evil). He deduced that they must be evil, in some sense, because the Church traditionally baptized infants but they ORIGINALLY baptized only repentant adults. However, by Augustine and Luther's time baptism of infants was mandatory. From this, Augustine inferred that infant baptism removed the guilt of Adam 's sin which had been "imputed" to all his decendents. However, sin is not a metaphysical ESSENCE. It is disobedience to God which is why neither infants nor children can be held accountable for what they do.
Then what do you think they believe? If you have time, break the acronym down for us please one letter at a time.
T
U
L
I
P
His own twofacedness which is why we don't believe in the god of your system.
He wants all men to be saved but doesn't fulfill his own desires even though He can. Such a one cannot be trusted. He wants one thing but does another.
Right. Glad you figured out who the Comforter is -- and also the Helper. It's the THIRD PERSON of the Godhead. Congratulations.
And I have stated NUMEROUS times what YOU FWers mean when you use the term "freewill". You believe that fallen mankind has some intrinsic power to make moral/spiritual choices that are contrary to its immutable evil nature to which man's mind, soul and heart are in bondage/imprisoned, thereby ascribing to sinners a power that even God himself doesn't have. Got it now? Why don't copy and paste this paragraph into file somewhere for future reference? Maybe we'll all get blessed and you won't have to ask a fourth time.
How many times have we told you you are wrong in your understanding? No will is free apart from grace. There is no "intrinsic" power at work, it is the power of grace.
But he does save ALL men in the qualitative sense!
Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sang a new song:
"You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth."
NIV
If God intended to save all men in the distributive sense, why didn't Jesus pray the entire world? Why did he limit his prayer to the two flocks of sheep in Jn 17? The above passage bears this truth out.
I can't help it if you can't exegete scripture. Plus you're obviously ignorant of the OT, as well.
Ps 47:8-9
8 God reigns over the nations;
God is seated on his holy throne.
9 The nobles of the nations assemble
as the people of the God of Abraham,
for the kings of the earth belong to God;
he is greatly exalted.
NIV
Ps 117:1-2
1 Praise the LORD, all you nations;
extol him, all you peoples.
2 For great is his love toward us,
and the faithfulness of the LORD endures forever.
NIV
God has always loved Abraham's descendants who are scattered all throughout the world.
FTFY!
And I understand you duplicitous FWers perfectly, thank you! Do you ever let your brain catch up to your fingers? You FWers don't believe that grace actaully saves! You believe that God's ineffectual grace merely makes salvation possible. In your world Jesus is reduced to a mere potential savior -- a concept that is totally foreign in scripture.
I have often stated on this thread that this whole discussion on the nature of fallen humanity's will is nothing less than a satanic smokescreen to detract us away from the real issue which is the HUMAN HEART in which all four of man's faculties reside. Fallen man is indeed unwilling because his evil nature will not allow him to make moral/spiritual choices that are contrary to it.
Yes, the human heart is indeed acted upon by an external influence -- the Great Physician. You might want to get up to speed on the unconditional, unilateral New Covenant promises.
Finally, no one comes into this world in a state of innocence. All of us were in Adam and, therefore, participated in his sin as our Federal Head. Adam's sin is imputed to ALL humanity in the distributive sense -- just like the Last Adam's righteousness is imputed to ALL His Father's elect.