Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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I never said we are not influenced, I said we are not in bondage to the influence. We can choose an alternative if we so desire. The slave to sin cannot, the slave to Christ can. In order to make the choice between two things (in this case two opposing things) one's will must be free.

I really don't think this is a hard concept to understand.

Once again, you never answered my question. "Can you choose to sin or not?
Last time: being able choose is not freewill. It is volition. We do choose, but we choose according to what is exercising influence over us. For example, when God is working in an individual to will and do of His good pleasure, the individual chooses a course of action, but the impetus for the action is God. I live, yet not I; Christ lives in me. Likewise, Paul says he does what he doesn't want to do. Why? Because of the sin that dwells in him.

So...I can choose to walk in the Spirit or the flesh. Once I choose, I will be influenced by the one I have chosen. At the same time, God is always working in me to conform me to the image of Christ. I have 0 control of this.
 
Vocabulary.com says that "Will means to want or to choose. If you have free will, you are allowed to choose what you want."

So, if nobody chooses salvation because they do not want it, then it is because of their free will .... :unsure:
 
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Vocabulary.com says that "Will means to want or to choose. If you have free will, you are allowed to choose what you want."

So, if nobody chooses salvation because they do not want it, then it is because of their free will .... :unsure:
As a Christian i believe John 1 is the best interpretation of mans will, which states and declares mans will lives in the flesh, and as a Christian I've been brought up to believe that the will of the flesh should be denied at all times,

However choice on the other hand is a blessing it's called freedom of thought, and if you live according to his word you get all the right choices given 🙂
 
As a Christian i believe John 1 is the best interpretation of mans will, which states and declares mans will lives in the flesh, and as a Christian I've been brought up to believe that the will of the flesh should be denied at all times,

However choice on the other hand is a blessing it's called freedom of thought, and if you live according to his word you get all the right choices given 🙂

Not that it makes sense but, it seems to me that the answer to finding 'the key' to life is giving up our will. However, I don't know what choice that leaves us. :confused:
 
Ive already shown you where the sarcastic free willer called good evil.
nope ... you have not shown the post number where whatever you and Magenta claim was stated was actually stated.

You providing the post number where something was stated would lead to verifiable fact.

You're now claiming you showed me where someone said something ... that is not a fact.





Jordon said:
It looks like your claim is one that won't listen
I have listened ...

Unfortunately free willers think they are clever to present mothers loving and caring for their children as "evil."​

please provide the post submitted wherein it was claimed that mothers loving and caring for their children is evil.​


I'm still waiting for Magenta to provide the post wherein it was claimed that mothers loving and caring for their children is evil.​

you'll have to go back a few posts before where the sarcastic free willer said when an unbeliver does good there doing evil​

where's the post, Jordon? claims are being made and I'd like to read the post ... thanks!​




Jordon said:
Well the question is now, can God actually go against your will to make you listen
from the above discussion ... it's not me who's not listening ... so "the question is now, can God actually go against your [and Magenta] will to make you listen"

.
 
Blain said:
I was talking about God whe not forcving someone to listen against their will​


ah that's the issue she has with scripture, it's not called forcing it's called making a person believe,
When Scripture is revealed, a person either believes or suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.

If a person believes, he or she receives the blessing promised by God.

If a person suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, he or she receives the consequence.




Jordon said:
It's the same for God making the wolf dwell with the lamb,..

Or God making Johna listen who refused to listen and ran away

It's where God goes against the will of nature
When Jonah ran away, whose will was Jonah following?

As far as the wolf dwelling with the lamb ... have you ever considered that was their "natural" state when God first created the heavens and the earth?

.
 
Not that it makes sense but, it seems to me that the answer to finding 'the key' to life is giving up our will. However, I don't know what choice that leaves us. :confused:
no need to be sad if you know your good you know, it's something God does for all his children, his grace is very enabling to help and make you feel good, and always giving you a choice in making you choose correctly

I would be more sad for all the sad people in the world, who haven't listened.
.


there are many who don't bat an eye lid there all to busy with the choice to win the race before anyone else, making them all kinds of people, I would not want to highlight all the walks of life I come across, but let's just say they made a choice that wasn't God's, when God was pricking there conscience,

But there are people who also do genuine suffer for the right choice . Human emotions are very delicate, but Gods grace is very kind in keeping you in a place where you can always come out shining the next day, with another one of his choices to set you on a new path and see things in a different light making you new again, it's called lightening your load, it where all of sudden all your cares are taken care of, and your back in his grace, not that you where never away from there anyway, it just felt like you needed some help, but all you did was forget to commune 🙂
 
Not true! God had given Cornelius a godly disposition of heart, which scripture calls Fear of the Lord, long before Cornelius even heard the gospel from the lips of Peter. Read Acts 10-11 someday.
is it your claim that natural man is given a new heart "long before" he or she hears the gospel?




Rufus said:
Also, you might want to ditch your eisegetical methodology since Eph 1:13 doesn't speak to WHEN the new heart was actually given.
My comments concerning Ephesians 1:13 were in response to BillyBob's claim that "regeneration ... could take place years before actual trust and belief in the word of Christ".


BillyBob said: [bold mine]
I am of the opinion that regeneration must come first. In fact, I believe that it could take place years before actual trust and belief in the work of Christ. But, it certainly must come first.
Regeneration is simply God giving you a new heart in order to believe. This must be done because we are unable to even so much as desire the things of God.
In my case, I am convinced that the Spirit was working in me several years before actually placing my trust in Christ.​

Regeneration equals born again. The word "regeneration" is translated from the Greek word paliggenesía ... which means born again.

3824 paliggenesía – the coming of new birth because "born again"; regeneration.
3824 /paliggenesía ("renewal, rebirth") is used twice in the NT referring to: a) the re-birth of physical creation at Christ's return (Advent), which inaugurates His millennial kingdom (Mt 19:28; cf. Ro 8:18-25); and b) the re-birth all believers experience at conversion (Tit 3:5).
HELPS Word-studies



according to Ephesians 1:13 ...

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

you trust when you hear the word of truth ... not before
you believe when you hear the gospel of your salvation ... not before
you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise when you believed the gospel of salvation ... not before


As far as BillyBob being "convinced that the Spirit was working in [him] several years before actually placing [his] trust in Christ" ... the Holy Spirit has always/is now/will continue in the future to reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. Was the Holy Spirit "reproving" BillyBob? ... as opposed to "regenerating" BillyBob?

.
 
Blain said:
I was talking about God whe not forcving someone to listen against their will​



When Scripture is revealed, a person either believes or suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.

If a person believes, he or she receives the blessing promised by God.

If a person suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, he or she receives the consequence.





When Jonah ran away, whose will was Jonah following?

As far as the wolf dwelling with the lamb ... have you ever considered that was their "natural" state when God first created the heavens and the earth?

.
I've already shown you and told you
 
nope ... you have not shown the post number where whatever you and Magenta claim was stated was actually stated.

You providing the post number where something was stated would lead to verifiable fact.

You're now claiming you showed me where someone said something ... that is not a fact.





I have listened ...

Unfortunately free willers think they are clever to present mothers loving and caring for their children as "evil."​

please provide the post submitted wherein it was claimed that mothers loving and caring for their children is evil.​


I'm still waiting for Magenta to provide the post wherein it was claimed that mothers loving and caring for their children is evil.​

you'll have to go back a few posts before where the sarcastic free willer said when an unbeliver does good there doing evil​

where's the post, Jordon? claims are being made and I'd like to read the post ... thanks!​





from the above discussion ... it's not me who's not listening ... so "the question is now, can God actually go against your [and Magenta] will to make you listen"

.
I've already shown you and told you
 
Magenta said:
Unfortunately free willers think they are clever to present mothers loving and caring for their children as "evil."​

reneweddaybyday said:
please provide the post submitted wherein it was claimed that mothers loving and caring for their children is evil.​



Magenta said:
If you expect me to believe something just because you have said it you are delusional.​



.
 
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I asked the following question
What does it mean that God draws us to salvation?

And arrived at the Gotquestions website
https://www.gotquestions.org/drawn-salvation.html


Answer: The clearest verse on God’s drawing to salvation is John 6:44 where Jesus declares that “no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.” The Greek word translated “draw” is helkuo, which means “to drag” (literally or figuratively). Clearly, this drawing is a one-sided affair. God does the drawing to salvation; we who are drawn have a passive role in the process. There is no doubt that we respond to His drawing us, but the drawing itself is all on His part.

Helkuo is used in John 21:6 to refer to a heavy net full of fish being dragged to the shore. In John 18:10 we see Peter drawing his sword, and in Acts 16:19 helkuo is used to describe Paul and Silas being dragged into the marketplace before the rulers. Clearly, the net had no part in its being drawn to the shore, Peter’s sword had no part in being drawn, and Paul and Silas did not drag themselves to the marketplace. The same can be said of God’s drawing of some to salvation. Some come willingly, and some are dragged unwillingly, but all eventually come, although we have no part in the drawing.

Why does God need to draw us to salvation? Simply put, if He didn’t, we would never come. Jesus explains that no man can come unless the Father draws him (John 6:65). The natural man has no ability to come to God, nor does he even have the desire to come. Because his heart is hard and his mind is darkened, the unregenerate person doesn’t desire God and is actually an enemy of God (Romans 5:10). When Jesus says that no man can come without God’s drawing him, He is making a statement about the total depravity of the sinner and the universality of that condition. So darkened is the unsaved person’s heart that he doesn’t even realize it: “The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9). Therefore, it is only by the merciful and gracious drawing of God that we are saved. In the conversion of the sinner, God enlightens the mind (Ephesians 1:18), inclines the will toward Himself, and influences the soul, without which influence the soul remains darkened and rebellious against God. All of this is involved in the drawing process.

There is a sense in which God draws all men. This is known as the “general call” and is distinguished from the “effectual call” of God’s elect. Passages such as Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20 attest to the fact that God’s eternal power and divine nature are “clearly seen” and “understood” from what has been made, “so that people are without excuse.” But men still do deny God, and those who acknowledge His existence still do not come to a saving knowledge of Him outside of His drawing them. Only those who have been drawn through special revelation—by the power of the Holy Spirit and the grace of God—will come to Christ.

There are tangible ways in which those who are being drawn to salvation experience that drawing. First, the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sinful state and our need for a Savior (John 16:8). Second, He awakens in us a previously unknown interest in spiritual things and creates a desire for them that was never there before. Suddenly our ears are open, our hearts are inclined toward Him, and His Word begins to hold a new and exciting fascination for us. Our spirits begin to discern spiritual truth that never made sense to us before: “The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Corinthians 2:14). Finally, we begin to have new desires. He places within us a new heart that inclines toward Him, a heart that desires to know Him, obey Him, and walk in the “newness of life” (Romans 6:4) that He has promised.

This website must belong to John Calvin!
 
I asked the following question
What does it mean that God draws us to salvation?
No one disputes the fact that God draws.

The issue is whether the drawing can be resisted.

  • Acts 7:51 Stephen stated that the Jews were always resisting the Holy Spirit.
  • Eph 4:30 says not to grieve (ie, resist) the Holy Spirit
  • 1 Thess 5:19 says not to quench (ie, resist) the Holy Spirit

Can folks resist God's drawing?

According to some ... no.

According to some ... yes.

.
 
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No one disputes the fact that God draws.

The issue is whether the drawing can be resisted.
  • Acts 7:51 Stephen stated that the Jews were always resisting the Holy Spirit.
  • Eph 4:30 says not to grieve (ie, resist) the Holy Spirit
  • 1 Thess 5:19 says not to quench (ie, resist) the Holy Spirit

Can folks resist God's drawing?

According to some ... no.

According to some ... yes.

.
And another issue.........God draws ALL people. Not just the calvies.
 
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No one disputes the fact that God draws.

The issue is whether the drawing can be resisted.
  • Acts 7:51 Stephen stated that the Jews were always resisting the Holy Spirit.
  • Eph 4:30 says not to grieve (ie, resist) the Holy Spirit
  • 1 Thess 5:19 says not to quench (ie, resist) the Holy Spirit

Can folks resist God's drawing?

According to some ... no.

According to some ... yes.

.
Well The ones who say no, had the same testing in the heart with his fire and light, as the ones who said yes, which means his enabling grace was sufficient to make the right choice,

In both case his will overcame the will of man to give them the choice 🙂

The choice was given for the ability to choose, well what lord requires to see is mercy. And his father's mercy in you 🙂

And we have already discussed God spent 4O years building people's heart up in the mercy, in many many understanding I showed you, so that they could show mercy and affection in sincerity and strength , and a long the way, there was many many times where they did and they didn't, so it's like this.

After all the choices God enables in your heart for a lengthy period of time , and the heart doesn't grow in the mercy and it doesn't show how God likes , well the son, doesn't see you, the father hands people over to disobedience,

And all along that journey, the choice was theres like the ones who did grow in mercy and affection before being handed to the son,

As Jesus came and preached i desire to see mercy, well on that powerful direction, we could open a whole new chapter, which we did, but then nope as you said, you where not in 100 percent agreement, so I guess you will be spending the rest of your days looking for that 1 percent 🙂
 
And another issue.........God draws ALL people. Not just the calvies.
That's just a ridiculous statement, because you don't even know who the true Calvies are, and you don't want to know either.

The true Calvies don't think like that and the true Calvies are just people affiliated with calvins teaching, he was an honoured beloved person and to this day because of his beloved work in the reformation and devoted work in helping people in many ways, in prayer and disobedience and obedience and suffering, he was well loved well liked,.so much so that to this day, his work is treasured by many, so much so they build colledges in his name.

And people share and learn and there all welcome at his college regardless of the ethnicity or. There faith.

Again you probably don't want to hear it, but one day God will probably say you,. Oh you where that critic,..
 
Sometimes will isn’t free. If your will is to eat candy all your life then it could cost a bunch of money, your teeth, and your toes from diabetes. But sometimes it is free like me writing something dumb on this thread.
 
Last time: being able choose is not freewill. It is volition. We do choose, but we choose according to what is exercising influence over us.
This has been covered so many times it is like talking to a brick wall at this point.

They refuse to accept that: Man chooses according to his nature.

According to Scripture, the natural man is a slave to sin.

A lover of darkness. Opposed to the spiritual things of God.

The FWers contradict and deny these things, then tell us everyone hears when everyone does not.
They misrepresent Scriptures, themselves, and the views of others. Some would rather blaspheme
God than admit they were in error. Their blasphemies are disgusting, but they repeat them and
others agree with them. It is quite disgraceful. They truly act like a leopard can change its spots,
even though Jesus said it could not any more than a bad tree could bring forth good fruit.


The philosophy of free will brings forth rotten fruit that contradicts what Scripture explicitly articulates.
 
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Sometimes will isn’t free. If your will is to eat candy all your life then it could cost a bunch of money, your teeth, and your toes from diabetes. But sometimes it is free like me writing something dumb on this thread.
I've just been waiting candy whilst setting a new world record at Fuji, wahooo. Long live the Calvies 🤩