Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

 

[Blain]

I feel bad for you if you think that slavery to Christ is in any way like slavery to sin. The latter is a bondage, the former is freedom. I pray one day you find that out.

John 8:36
Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

No being a slave to Christ is nothing like being a slave to sin it is one that is amazing when submit yourself to him with utter surrender like everything in your being he opens up himself to you in glorious ways.

That is what it is like to be a slave to Christ Paul understood this and even called himself a slave to Christ

 

[sawdust]

sometimes a very long process! But you are assuming that God gives saving grace in the first place to everyone in the world,

No I don't, if He did everyone would be saved. Try again with your "I assume nothing".

And just how many graces are there? First you talk of the grace that is a process then you speak of gospel grace. How many different kinds of saving grace are there?

Grace is God's means of effecting His will. It is by means of grace the universe is upheld by the Word. It is by means of grace that God makes the sun to shine and the rain to fall on the good and bad alike. It is by means of grace that the truth is manifest even in the reprobate. It is by means of grace that we are saved and it is by means of grace that we continue to grow to the full measure of His Son.

Grace is God's power and will at work to bring into effect His eternal plan according to His nature of love. It is not different types of grace, it is different measures of grace. To the humble more grace is given.

James 4:6
But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.”

That is written for the proud believer. Believers are given different measures of grace that's why some are more gracious than others. (which is not to be confused with having a pleasant personality).

Your whole fireman analogy is ludicrous. Like I said before you are not comprehending what I mean and so you supplant it with your own world view to try and make sense. It simply doesn't work that way.

 

[sawdust]

Directed to those who trusted in themselves because of what they did; they trusted in themselves that they were righteous by what they did.

Where are they? Those of us here trusted in God to do what He said He would do for believers. ie save them.

You really need to stop making things up because all you are really doing is arguing against your own imagination.

 

[sawdust]

So, the Son is evil because He sets sinners free from their bondage to sin, and is even more evil for making His chosen ones slaves of Righteousness, Goodness and Holiness?

I would really hate to live in your head.

 

[sawdust]

No, we were in a regeneration state which leads to the new birth.

Now you are really making stuff up. Where's the scripture for a "regeneration state".

ROFL.

 

[sawdust]

Slave is only being used to show that one is being influenced by either sin or Christ. Because one is always under some influence, the will is not free.

Should I assume you think you never sin? That is the logical outcome of your thinking. If you are a slave to righteousness and your will is not free to do anything other than what is right, then logically you cannot sin.

I only know of One who cannot sin, the rest of us are free to choose one way or the other.

 

[sawdust]

Come on, Cam, being taken captive to do the will of the devil means the will is free.



Being blind means you can see.

Unable to submit or obey means you can submit and obey.

You know it has been explained how God frees the will prior to salvation so you need to stop bearing false witness. I suggest you practice what you preach in your final emoji.

 

[Cameron143]

Should I assume you think you never sin? That is the logical outcome of your thinking. If you are a slave to righteousness and your will is not free to do anything other than what is right, then logically you cannot sin.

I only know of One who cannot sin, the rest of us are free to choose one way or the other.

It's a false assumption. One who is saved is either walking in the Spirit or the flesh. Either way, their wills are being influenced.

 

[sawdust]

Slave is only being used to show that one is being influenced by either sin or Christ. Because one is always under some influence, the will is not free.

Honestly. There is so much error in what you say sometimes I don't know where to start.

A slave to sin is not being "influenced", they are in bondage and can do no other thing but sin.

Unlike being a slave to Christ whereby you can choose to sin or not. If it were not so, there would be no need for 1John1:9.

And we have been through this concept Christ frees every aspect of your being but your will? It is ridiculous. Either you are free indeed, or not free.

Just because one is influenced doesn't mean they are bound to something. I always try to listen to both sides of a story then I can make my own decision on the matter. My will may be influenced by both sides but it is not bound to either. I may end up rejecting both sides and formulating my own.

 

[sawdust]

No being a slave to Christ is nothing like being a slave to sin it is one that is amazing when submit yourself to him with utter surrender like everything in your being he opens up himself to you in glorious ways.

That is what it is like to be a slave to Christ Paul understood this and even called himself a slave to Christ

Then why are you trying to argue that being free is wrong when you recognise slavery to Christ is perfect freedom?

Do you not understand freedom cannot exist without authority?

 

[Magenta]

You know it has been explained how God frees the will prior to salvation so you need to stop bearing false witness. I suggest you practice what you preach in your final emoji.

The will of the natural man is not free to do what Scripture says it cannot not matter how much you make up to justify whatever your position is. If you expect me to believe something just because you have said it you are delusional. I believe what Scripture says.

 

[sawdust]

It's a false assumption. One who is saved is either walking in the Spirit or the flesh. Either way, their wills are being influenced.

But you said the will is not free ergo, if it is bound to righteousness, you cannot sin. It is not an assumption, it is logical Captain Kirk. Influence has no bearing on whether your will is free to choose or not.

Are you free to sin or not? The issue isn't where one is walking at any given moment but can you choose to follow the flesh or the Spirit?

 

[sawdust]

The will of the natural man is not free to do what Scripture says it cannot not matter how much you make up to justify whatever your position is. If you expect me to believe something just because you have said it you are delusional. I believe what Scripture says.

But you leave out the many posts that explained how grace acts on the natural man and so are bearing false witness claiming we make statements we never made.

Equally so if you think I will believe something you say just because you have said it, you too are delusional.

You may well believe what scripture says, it's just a pity you ignore so much to remain in your dogmatic mindset.

Have a nice day

 

[Cameron143]

Honestly. There is so much error in what you say sometimes I don't know where to start.

A slave to sin is not being "influenced", they are in bondage and can do no other thing but sin.

Unlike being a slave to Christ whereby you can choose to sin or not. If it were not so, there would be no need for 1John1:9.

And we have been through this concept Christ frees every aspect of your being but your will? It is ridiculous. Either you are free indeed, or not free.

Just because one is influenced doesn't mean they are bound to something. I always try to listen to both sides of a story then I can make my own decision on the matter. My will may be influenced by both sides but it is not bound to either. I may end up rejecting both sides and formulating my own.

So a slave is not influenced by his master? Not sure how you understand slavery. At any rate, thanks for the discussion. Grace and peace.

 

[BillyBob]

Where are they? Those of us here trusted in God to do what He said He would do for believers. ie save them.

Matt 9:12-13
12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

The verse above says nothing about saving believers, only sinners whom He calls.

 

[Magenta]

Matt 9:12-13
12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

The verse above says nothing about saving believers, only sinners whom He calls.

The free willer who believes her/himself so righteous she/he does not need God's help? Probably needs it most.

Despite what all the nay sayers say.

With all their made-up malarkey...

 

[sawdust]

So a slave is not influenced by his master? Not sure how you understand slavery. At any rate, thanks for the discussion. Grace and peace.

I never said we are not influenced, I said we are not in bondage to the influence. We can choose an alternative if we so desire. The slave to sin cannot, the slave to Christ can. In order to make the choice between two things (in this case two opposing things) one's will must be free.

I really don't think this is a hard concept to understand.

Once again, you never answered my question. "Can you choose to sin or not?

 

[sawdust]

The free willer who believes her/himself so righteous she/he does not need God's help? Probably needs it most.

Despite what all the nay sayers say.

With all their made-up malarkey...

Once again there is no "free willer" in this thread that thinks that so once again I strongly suggest you stop your false witness.

 

[sawdust]

Matt 9:12-13
12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

The verse above says nothing about saving believers, only sinners whom He calls.

Well this verse does mate. It is God who has determined to save those who believe. We do not save ourselves because we say so but because God HIMSELF says so. And the verse you quote is about calling sinners to repentance. Do you honestly think every single Israelite was unsaved at the time of Christ's ministry? Yet they all needed to hear the call of repentance even the saved just as we need to hear that call after we are saved.

John 3:15
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Some of us need to change our thinking more than others.