Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Jordon]

You're being merciful to me? How so?

Mercy and compassion are not the same thing. Being merciful is showing mercy. Saying "Thank you" is not being merciful.

Since you assert there is more mercy, you already know the answer you want, so I see no need to offer an answer you will likely reject.

just asking where you can see his mercy in his grace.

 

[Rufus]

God's eternal decree is salvation. Strange how the Calvinists missed that part.

Wanna talk "strange", do you? What's really weird is that you totally miss that God's eternal decree applies to Abraham's spiritual descendants, which means in this New Covenant age the Abrahamic Covenant is being fulfilled.

 

[Rufus]

Job is more than likely the start of satans rebellion before he was cast down

So, Job existed before A&E did? He existed when Satan was created?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Romans 1 - 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity for the dishonoring of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is forever worthy of praise!f Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 Likewise, the men abandoned natural relations with women and burned with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, He gave them up to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant, and boastful. They invent new forms of evil; they disobey their parents. 31 They are senseless, faithless, heartless, merciless.

32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things are worthy of death, they not only continue to do these things, but also approve of those who practice them.

This section of Scripture clearly teaches that mankind is not born with a reprobate mind.

vs 19 – what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them

vs 21 – they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him

according to some who have posted in this thread ... what is revealed in vss 19 and 21 is an impossibility for the natural man.

And part of the problem is that the above post orphans Romans 1:18-32 from what is written in Romans 1:16-17 concerning the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.

Romans 1:16-19 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Those who believe the gospel of Christ when it is revealed to them receive the blessing.

Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness when the gospel of Christ is revealed to them receive the consequence.


Romans 1:21 – 32 reveals the downward spiral to the endpoint of the reprobate mind. No one is born in that state. The reprobate mind is the result of man stepping further and further away from God. As a person continues to suppress the truth in unrighteousness, there are downward steps to the reprobate mind:

vs 21 – foolish heart becomes darkened which results in behaviors shown in vss 22-23

vs 24 – given up to uncleanness which results in behaviors shown in vss 24-25

vs 26 – given up to vile affections which results in behaviors shown in vss 26-27

vs 28 – reprobate mind which results in behaviors shown in vss 28-32

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[reneweddaybyday]

Mercy and grace work together.
Mercy came first then grace.

First I want to make clear ... you said

Does God give people grace to to let people speak the truth, and did God also give people grace to let them lie.

​

That was the statement which began our discussion. I want to make clear that God does not "give people grace to let them lie". God does not cause us to lie ... when we lie we are going against God, we do not lie because He wants us to lie or because He gives grace to lie.

God gives mercy when we lie and confess our sin to Him.

As far as mercy and grace working together? yes, definitely true. have you ever read Hebrews 4:16?

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

mercy and grace ... much needed help in our time of need.

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[reneweddaybyday]

Indeed. Well said. To help others here understand it, here are some....

Real-World Illustrations:

1. Courtroom Example:

Mercy

A guilty man stands before a judge. He truly committed the crime.


The judge says:
“I will not give you the full punishment that the law demands.”


That is mercy.
It withholds what he does deserve.

Grace

The judge then says:
“Not only will I forgive you, but I will pay your fines, wipe your record clean, and give you a fresh start.”


That is grace.
It gives what he does not deserve.

Why this matches Scripture:

• Mercy removes wrath.
• Grace gives the gift.
  Both keep the man from perishing.

2. Homeless Man Example:

A man is homeless, cold, and starving.

Mercy

Someone tells him:
“I will not throw you off my property or call security on you.”


That is mercy.
It withholds the negative response he deserves from trespassing.

Grace

That same person then says:
“Come inside. I will give you food, a warm bed, and a clean set of clothes.”


That is grace.
It provides good things he did not earn.

How it matches God’s salvation:

• Mercy keeps back the judgment.
• Grace offers adoption into God’s family.

Praise be unto the Lord Jesus Christ (who is God) for His abundant grace and mercy.


Hebrews 4:16

"“Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.”

yep ... we obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need ... good to keep Heb 4:16 in our hearts ...

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[Dino246]

just asking where you can see his mercy in his grace.

They are related and intertwined, but I define them distinctly.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

His word says I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy on

It means his mercy enables you it means his mercy comes upon you to have a desire to walk away from sin

His mercy is his enabling m

when God spoke the words about having mercy upon whom He will have mercy, it was when Moses had asked to see God's glory ... Moses wanted to know more of God and Moses asked if he could see His glory.

This request was made after the children of Israel had left Egypt ... after Moses had gone up to receive the tablets ... after Moses had returned to see the camp worshipping the golden calf ... after God had told Moses he would consume the children of Israel and make a nation out of Moses ... after Moses had interceded on behalf of the people and God relented ... after Moses beseeched God to continue His presence with the people ... after God agreed to go with the people ... then Moses asked ...

Exodus 33:18-19

18 And he [Moses] said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

19 And he [God] said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

Moses asked to see God's glory.

God told Moses that all His goodness would pass before Moses and He would proclaim His name before Moses.

The goodness of God ... grace and mercy are part of God's goodness.

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[Jordon]

So, Job existed before A&E did? He existed when Satan was created?

before the foundations of the world everything existed

But no job did not exist before Adam and eve, but it could be decree that i could say that if my father is of the devil, I will put scripture back to front but I won't. And if I do say it I will be humbled. And if get humble I will not say it again

But satan was called Lucifer at first

And theres no mention of Lucifer in the Adam and eve story

And nothing wicked can enter heaven once cast down there one

Which means Santan can refer to being evil

In my view for what it's worth job was starting of Lucifer becoming satan.

Lucifer may well of been getting tested

 

[reneweddaybyday]

We who have been given eternal life are now partakers in God's process for making evil to become extinct in the future.

amen ...

Revelation 22:3-5 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

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[reneweddaybyday]

Jordon said:

just asking where you can see his mercy in his grace.​

They are related and intertwined, but I define them distinctly.

agree

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[Jordon]

They are related and intertwined, but I define them distinctly.

ok m

They are intertwined

And you joined a discussion where I have been asking this question for weeks.

I'm not asking a question I know the answer to as I've already given my humble opinion.

For God so loved the world he gave his one only son that whoever believed him would have eternal life

His mercy intertwined with his. Grace.

So now I ask what mercy was in them before this

 

[Blue155]

Yes they make God responsible for evil and then try to rationalize it.

Not one Calvinist on this thread condemned the words by Sproul Jr. when he stated that a 10 year old girl, who was raped and tortured, received her correct judgement.

See this post.

# 11 977

Sick.

 

[Blue155]

No one is born in that state. The reprobate mind is the result of man stepping further and further away from God. As a person continues to suppress the truth in unrighteousness, there are downward steps to the reprobate mind

Amen.

 

[sawdust]

God's eternal decree is salvation. Strange how the Calvinists missed that part.

Actually I would go back one step from that and say God's eternal decree is eternal life. Salvation became a necessary part because Adam sinned. Two thirds of the angels never needed salvation and I strongly suspect, if we were all created at the same time as the angels were, that many would not need salvation either because, unlike Adam, they would not have sinned.

Titus 1:2
in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

Eternal life was the promise before time, before creation and John 17:3 tells us eternal life is to know God. I believe what God desired was to share His life with creation because He knew how good His life is and did not want to keep it to Himself alone.

 

[Jordon]

Sick.

when tempted no one shall say God is tempting me.

But you think you have more grounds to call someone a sick Calvinist

You don't

A person can understand scripture differently

Again your being the worst calvinist here in my humble opinion

 

[Me_Clay]

let me tell me you something he who exalts himself will be humbled

And if your not then you are of the father your devil[/QUOTE

 

[reneweddaybyday]

ok m

They are intertwined

And you joined a discussion where I have been asking this question for weeks.

I'm not asking a question I know the answer to as I've already given my humble opinion.

For God so loved the world he gave his one only son that whoever believed him would have eternal life

His mercy intertwined with his. Grace.

So now I ask what mercy was in them before this

grace and mercy are part of Who God is ... you cannot separate God from His grace ... you cannot separate God from His mercy.

when a person sins, the sinner separates him or herself from God ... but God's mercy and grace is always available to the sinner until the time the sinner passes away. The sinner is to repent in order for God to show mercy. If the sinner does not repent, the sinner faces God's judgment.

Judgment is just as much a part of God as grace and mercy.

Love is also a part of Who God is. You cannot separate God from His love.

.

 

[Jordon]

grace and mercy are part of Who God is ... you cannot separate God from His grace ... you cannot separate God from His mercy.

when a person sins, the sinner separates him or herself from God ... but God's mercy and grace is always available to the sinner until the time the sinner passes away. The sinner is to repent in order for God to show mercy. If the sinner does not repent, the sinner faces God's judgment.

Judgment is just as much a part of God as grace and mercy.

Love is also a part of Who God is. You cannot separate God from His love.

.

Again his mercy is pored upon the sinner first

 

[Me_Clay]

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.