Blasphemy against holyspirit

[PaulThomson]

No, you are comparing apples and oranges. Viewing the HS as evil is not comparable to disrespecting a fellow human.
As for semantics, I have shared how blaspheming the HS per Matt.12:24-32 is equivalent to apostasy, which is unforgiveable because the soul is demonic and will never repent per Heb.6:4-6 (cf. John8:42-52).

Special pleading is never a great logical fallacy to base your argument on.

You are still not presenting the wording of your verses, but only the references. The words of your referenced verses do not say what you are deceitfully smuggling into them.

 

[GWH]

Special pleading is never a great logical fallacy to base your argument on.

You are still not presenting the wording of your verses, but only the references. The words of your referenced verses do not say what you are deceitfully smuggling into them.

Well, we disagree and will see who is correct when we get to heaven because we agree on GRFS.

Have you decided not to keep going with the study of Ephesians?

 

[JimiSurvivor]

So, you did not intend to associate "neither" with "or not"?
Instead, you assume the second student genuinely repents.

Do you admit this has nothing to do with the case cited by Jesus in Matt.12:24-32?
And do you still deny English semantics? ( "will not be forgiven" does not mean "unforgiveable".)

Man you are on a mission to prove that Gods power is weak and He can't keep us, that we can be snatched out of His hand, that He gives us to the Son just for some to turn around and walk away Him from later.

I'm sorry man, but this seems the most important thing in your life to prove, the weakness of God. I don't get it, not that you can hold this view, but you seem to make it the center of your purpose, to proclaim we can lose salvation. You know who I say can make this argument the best? Those who have never exsperianced the true saving power of the only God through His Son Jesus. When you have never been spiritually resurrected, or "born-again", when you've never been transformed fundementally from the inside out by His Spirit completely rewiring our minds and rearranging our priorities completely by His power. By being born of the Spirit and reconciled to God in REAL LIFE, like for really real.

You are making our CONTINUING in the faith a matter of power

Those who have been born again in truth have a MUCH higher regaurd for the power of God and what He's actually in control of then you display in your arguments. I don't think you do it on purpose, I think you do it because your eyes can't see the truth yet and you can only think of these things in the flesh, because you don't know the Spirit yet so all these things are foolishness to you. Again I truly pray you can take a step back and at least see that everything you argue for degrades the power of God and puts salvation on the backs of men ultimatly. You argue for a weaker God OFTEN. Sorry the God of truth is a God of POWER and the POWER to change the hearts of men, and I testify that when ANY person is blessed with this gift of salvation from God, they declare His power with all their passion, not argue day in and out for His weakness. Just sayin.

If the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, and the Holy Spirit is revealing to me that something is true, but I am publicly declaring the opposite of what the Holy Spirit is convicting me is true, and I am publicly denying the truth the Holy Spirit is revealing to me, how am I not speaking against the Holy Spirit and blaspheming Him by making Him a liar? Fortunately for us all, the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is forgivable, but we can't be forgiven for it while we are knowingly persisting in doing it.

Jesus said
31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.…(Matthew 12:31-32)

Jesus taught that those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven "either in this age or in the one to come.…"
Yet you say that it IS forgivable Who are we to believe YOU or JESUS? Rather than read and accept what He said and try to understand you change the text altering it to conform to some denominational preconception.

 

[Taylorj2]

Yeah, who committed the blasphemy in scripture? Not redeemed people. So how does it apply to the redeemed?

Once saved always saved is not true. Believers can backslide and even fall away from the truth. Therefore, people who once believed can commit the unpardonable sin.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Once saved always saved is not true. Believers can backslide and even fall away from the truth. Therefore, people who once believed can commit the unpardonable sin.

I can provide examples of those who God rejected. None of them had faith in Jesus to save them from Hell.
Please provide clear examples of those you speak of.

 

[Taylorj2]

I can provide examples of those who God rejected. None of them had faith in Jesus to save them from Hell.
Please provide clear examples of those you speak of.

Do you want me to give a theological standpoint? I am an Armenian, although, I am not a traditionalist meaning that I do not believe it is easy to lose salvation, one can choose to walk away. I am not a calvinist, however, because I do not believe that people were pre-selected and did not have a choice of whether they would be saved or not. I believe that instead, each person has free will and God simply knows who will be saved without any manipulation or control.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Do you want me to give a theological standpoint? I am an Armenian, although, I am not a traditionalist meaning that I do not believe it is easy to lose salvation, one can choose to walk away. I am not a calvinist, however, because I do not believe that people were pre-selected and did not have a choice of whether they would be saved or not. I believe that instead, each person has free will and God simply knows who will be saved without any manipulation or control.

I'm not asking for that, simply examples of those who were clearly saved, had the gift of everlasting life and who were clearly condemned to Hell.

I'm not Calvinist, nor am I Armenian, if that matters. I disagree with some foundational dogmas of both schools of thought.

 

[Taylorj2]

I'm not asking for that, simply examples of those who were clearly saved, had the gift of everlasting life and who were clearly condemned to Hell.

I'm not Calvinist, nor am I Armenian, if that matters. I disagree with some foundational dogmas of both schools of thought.

In that regard, I have had friends that I knew personally and leaders that I have known personally that walked with the Lord. They were sold out and sought after God often, but over time they decided to fall away and walk in the way of the world. At one point, they were saved, but they chose to walk away from the faith.

 

[wattie]

Once saved always saved is not true. Believers can backslide and even fall away from the truth. Therefore, people who once believed can commit the unpardonable sin.

Think about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit given to those who believe in Jesus. This is a seal on the believer's soul. So if they go wayward.. the Holy Spirit is still there, indwelling them.

 

[Taylorj2]

Think about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit given to those who believe in Jesus. This is a seal on the believer's soul. So if they go wayward.. the Holy Spirit is still there, indwelling them.

No, that is not true. The Bible warns believers who may walk away. Hebrews 6 makes that pretty clear.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Think about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit given to those who believe in Jesus. This is a seal on the believer's soul. So if they go wayward.. the Holy Spirit is still there, indwelling them.

Grieve not the Spirit of God whereby ye are sealed until the day redemption.
Ephesians 4 :30?
Correct me if I'm wrong. An online Bible was trying to verify whether or not I was human, so I left it and going by memory. 🤖

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

In that regard, I have had friends that I knew personally and leaders that I have known personally that walked with the Lord. They were sold out and sought after God often, but over time they decided to fall away and walk in the way of the world. At one point, they were saved, but they chose to walk away from the faith.

Ok, just wondering.
Here's a brief Bible message that might be a blessing to you.

Heaven, God's Gift to Us

 

[wattie]

Grieve not the Spirit of God whereby ye are sealed until the day redemption.
Ephesians 4 :30?
Correct me if I'm wrong. An online Bible was trying to verify whether or not I was human, so I left it and going by memory. 🤖

Too much electronic interference..

Like people going to AI for answers

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Too much electronic interference..

Like people going to AI for answers

It's getting annoying. I don't usually use Google. I use Brave, so the websites and YouTube want my IP address. Identify the signs, the buses, the bicycles.....just checking to see if you are human.......🙄

 

[wattie]

No, that is not true. The Bible warns believers who may walk away. Hebrews 6 makes that pretty clear.

Hebrews 6 is about believers going on to maturity.. that is the context. Fall away here doesn't mean lost salvation.

The Hebrews were going back to old ways under the OT system. They were being admonished to pursue the meat of the Word rather than being babes I Christ..needing milk...needing to be taught again elementary principles.

So.. they were 'trodding under foot' the Son of God by going back to animal sacrifices instead of thinking on Jesus' ultimate sacrifice as the Lamb.

Not about losing salvation.

 

[Taylorj2]

Hebrews 6 is about believers going on to maturity.. that is the context. Fall away here doesn't mean lost salvation.

The Hebrews were going back to old ways under the OT system. They were being admonished to pursue the meat of the Word rather than being babes I Christ..needing milk...needing to be taught again elementary principles.

So.. they were 'trodding under foot' the Son of God by going back to animal sacrifices instead of thinking on Jesus' ultimate sacrifice as the Lamb.

Not about losing salvation.

The author of Hebrews is instructing them to pursue maturity, but in verse 4-6 we must remember that he is addressing believers. For it is impossible for those who are once enlightened (this would be those that are saved the rest of the verse and v. 5 affirm this)... v6. and if they (the believers referred to in the previous verses) should fall away, to renew themselves unto repentance.

 

[wattie]

The author of Hebrews is instructing them to pursue maturity, but in verse 4-6 we must remember that he is addressing believers. For it is impossible for those who are once enlightened (this would be those that are saved the rest of the verse and v. 5 affirm this)... v6. and if they (the believers referred to in the previous verses) should fall away, to renew themselves unto repentance.

Yeah.. so the renewal to repentance..can't be done..because they already repented when they believed.

They were redeemed by Jesus as the ultimate lamb.. they can't sacrifice animals to atone for their sin.. they are already converted by Jesus' one sacrifice.

Compare with Hebrews 10

 

[Taylorj2]

Yeah.. so the renewal to repentance..can't be done..because they already repented when they believed.

They were redeemed by Jesus as the ultimate lamb.. they can't sacrifice animals to atone for their sin.. they are already converted by Jesus' one sacrifice.

Compare with Hebrews 10

That is not what the verse is saying. The verse is explicitly dependent upon the previous verses - and if that is the case, then read verse 8 which talks about them going to hell.
James 5:19 also affirms that one can wander from the truth.
John 15:1-10 speaks on abiding in Christ, and Jesus is very clear (remember who He is speaking to the ones who would carry on His legacy and message) IF YOU ABIDE, which can be reasoned to say that one can not abide properly and stray from abiding. Also, it stands to reason that nobody can abide in Christ unless they know Him. So, therefore, the ones who this is directed towards are those who believe.
This is why I believe in the perseverance of the saints, not a once saved always saved message. You must persevere through life and it's many obstacles until the end in faith.

 

[PaulThomson]

Jesus said
31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.…(Matthew 12:31-32)

Jesus taught that those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven "either in this age or in the one to come.…"
Yet you say that it IS forgivable Who are we to believe YOU or JESUS? Rather than read and accept what He said and try to understand you change the text altering it to conform to some denominational preconception.

Mat 12:28
If but (εἰ δὲ) I (ἐγὼ) in/by the Spirit of God (ἐν πνεύματι θεοῦ) am casting out (ἐκβάλλω) the devils (τὰ δαιμόνια) then (ἄρα) came ( ἔφθασεν) upon you (ἐφ᾽ ὑμᾶς) the kingdom (ἡ βασιλεία) of the God (τοῦ θεοῦ).
Mat 12:29 Or (ἢ) how else (πῶς) is able (δύναταί) someone (τις) to enter (εἰσελθεῖν, aorist infinitive) into the house (εἰς τὴν οἰκίαν) of the strong man (τοῦ ἰσχυροῦ), and the good (καὶ τὰ σκεύη ) goods of him (αὐτοῦ) plunder (διἁρπάσαι, aorist infinitive), except/if not ( ἐὰν μὴ) first (πρῶτον) he bind ( δήσῃ, aorist subjunctive) the strong man (τὸν ἰσχυρόν)? and then (καὶ τότε) the house (τὴν οἰκίαν ) of him (αὐτοῦ) he will spoil (διαρπάσει).
Mat 12:30 He (ὁ) not being (μὴ ὢν) with me (μετ᾽ ἐμοῦ) against me (κατ᾽ ἐμοῦ) is (ἐστιν); and he ( καὶ ὁ) not gathering (μὴ συνάγων, present participle) with me (μετ᾽ ἐμοῦ) is scattering abroad (σκορπίζει, present active indicative).

Mat 12:31 Because of this (Διὰ τοῦτο) I am telling (λέγω) you (ὑμῖν), Every sin (πᾶσα ἁμαρτία) and blasphemy (καὶ βλασφημία) shall be forgiven (ἀφεθήσεται) to the men (τοῖς ἀνθρώποις): but the (ἡ δὲ) of the spirit (τοῦ πνεύματος) blasphemy (βλασφημία) not (οὐκ) shall be forgiven (ἀφεθήσεται) to the men (τοῖς ἀνθρώποις).
Mat 12:32 And whosoever (καὶ ὃς ἂν) should speak (εἴπῃ, aorist subjunctive) a word (λόγον) against of the Son of man (κατὰ τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου), it shall be forgiven (ἀφεθήσεται) to him (αὐτῷ·): but whosoever (ὃς δ᾽ ἂν) should speak (εἴπῃ, aorist subjunctive) against the the Holy (κατὰ τοῦ πνεύματος τοῦ ἁγίου ), it shall not be forgiven (οὐκ ἀφεθήσεται) to him (αὐτῷ), neither (οὔτε) in this the world (ἐν τούτῳ τῷ αἰῶνι), nor (οὔτε) in the coming world (ἐν τῷ μέλλοντι).

This passage about the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is in the context of Jesus explaining that his exorcism of demons are Him binding the strong man, so that the householder, the person to whom the body belongs, has their control of their own house/body returned to them. Anyone who is objecting to Him doing that, is not helping to build the kingdom of God, but is working to destroy the kingdom of God.

Then He says "Because of this i am telling you... "

Why does He say "Because of this..." ? Jesus has been talking about His present feats of binding and casting demons out of houses/bodies. Now He begins to talk about his future greater feat of permanently casting the king of demons, Satan, out heaven and limiting his influence over Christians when He bears all our many sins on the cross and and preemptively removes them all from our crime-sheets (apart from one type of sin, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit).

He is saying "Every single sin and blasphemy will be forgiven preemptively and retrospectively at the very time that Jesus dies the cross, apart from blasphemy against the Spirit. That one kind of sin must be forsaken in the present to have forgiveness of it in the present.

Every word spoken against Jesus will be forgiven preemptively and retrospectively at the time Jesus dies on the cross; but whoever speaks contrary to what the Holy Spirit is revealing to them, that will not be forgiven to them preemptively and retrospectively at the very time Jesus' dies on the cross. At any time in all eternity, that kind of sin must be repented of in the present, for it to be brought under the atonement offered at the cross.

 

[GWH]

In that regard, I have had friends that I knew personally and leaders that I have known personally that walked with the Lord. They were sold out and sought after God often, but over time they decided to fall away and walk in the way of the world. At one point, they were saved, but they chose to walk away from the faith.

Such decision may be called repudiation of faith or apostasy in order to distinguish it from accidentally losing salvation.