Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

[jaybird88]

It was not invented in the 500's. That's just you unitarians making things up as you go.

You should go out and read about the church councils especially the ecumenical ones. They continued calling these well into the 500s. The point of these councils were to establish Christian doctrine. They were still sorting out the Trinity in the 500s. This does not mean the idea did not exist before but it does mean the process giving you the Trinity as you know today, did not complete until the 500s.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I recently started working with a JW that just won't quit, he practically runs to my truck every time I show up on site. We've discussed some issues but I feel it's time I lay out a proper presentation of the Trinity found in scripture. Please help @Sackcloth-N-Ashes @UnitedWithChrist What approach/order seems to work best for y'all, where do you start?

By the way, I think the bondage to false organizations is a spiritual one. Prayer would be strongly encouraged. The more I am facing issues beyond my sphere of influence, the more I am realizing the only answer is to pray about them. Such as the BLM issue. I am praying for our government's leadership regarding this false organization and the rioting and looting which is occurring due in part to their ideology. I certainly do not deny that George Floyd's death was unjust, but I think he was only a pawn in their plan.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You should go out and read about the church councils especially the ecumenical ones. They continued calling these well into the 500s. The point of these councils were to establish Christian doctrine. They were still sorting out the Trinity in the 500s. This does not mean the idea did not exist before but it does mean the process giving you the Trinity as you know today, did not complete until the 500s.

The basis for the Trinity is biblical, and the deeper a person understands it, the more they see the underlying Scriptural rubric.

 

[jaybird88]

Because it is Trintarian in its essence. The gospel is about the Son dying and raising again and ascending to the Father.

If you have to be a trinitarian to get salvation why did Jesus agree with the Jewish idea of the Most High and not the Trinity version of the Most High?

 

[jaybird88]

The basis for the Trinity is biblical, and the deeper a person understands it, the more they see the underlying Scriptural rubric.

Why did it take 500 plus years to sort it?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Why did it take 500 plus years to sort it?

Why does it take Oneness Pentecostals years to sort out their misunderstandings, or to clarify their thinking?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

You should go out and read about the church councils especially the ecumenical ones. They continued calling these well into the 500s. The point of these councils were to establish Christian doctrine. They were still sorting out the Trinity in the 500s. This does not mean the idea did not exist before but it does mean the process giving you the Trinity as you know today, did not complete until the 500s.

Paul taught Trinitarian doctrine. Peter did, too.


This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear[Acts 2:32-33]. I know this is Luke‘s writing, but here he explicitly states God in clear Trinitarian language. And the opening of 2 Peter 1 is Trinitarian language as well.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

If you have to be a trinitarian to get salvation why did Jesus agree with the Jewish idea of the Most High and not the Trinity version of the Most High?

When you use the phrase "Most High" is this an indication that you are an Arian of some sort?

This is a biblical phrase, but typically those who use it, in my experience, are Arians who are claiming Jesus was a lesser god.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

If you have to be a trinitarian to get salvation why did Jesus agree with the Jewish idea of the Most High and not the Trinity version of the Most High?

I didn’t say that one needs to understand the Trinity to be saved. You’re putting words in my posts I never typed. Please stop that. But if one is saved for years and still denies the Trinity? They’re on an unsustainable path. They are in danger of John 8:24.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

When you use the phrase "Most High" is this an indication that you are an Arian of some sort?

This is a biblical phrase, but typically those who use it, in my experience, are Arians who are claiming Jesus was a lesser god.

If Jesus is not God, then He is a created being. Only God is eternal. They don’t see this error, nor do they even care.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I didn’t say that one needs to understand the Trinity to be saved. You’re putting words in my posts I never typed. Please stop that. But if one is saved for years and still denies the Trinity? They’re on an unsustainable path. They are in danger of John 8:24.

Right..I was an anti-Trinitarian when i was saved.

It took me ten years to learn that the group was wrong on that issue, and many more.

I was saved all the time, though. I think that many anti-Trinitarians are not real believers, though....but others are just confused and belong to Jesus. God will sort them out.

 

[Sipsey]

I have not read but a small portion of this thread, but in case it has not been combed through, I will add a link to an article from years back that declares that The Trinity is a Jewish concept. I read it years ago and it presents, in my opinion, a good case. See if you agree.

http://www.menorah.org/trinity1.html

 

[biker]

The basis for the Trinity is biblical, and the deeper a person understands it, the more they see the underlying Scriptural rubric.

This is false, because you must interject Persons into the equation when Jesus twice specified God is one person. You have to refuse to read the Bible properly in a 3rd person view in order to claim a Trinity to begin with. We must remember, if the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible, it must come from that view, not the writers view. In order to achieve 3 persons, you literally have to DENY the Holy Spirits view!

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

This is false, because you must interject Persons into the equation when Jesus twice specified God is one person. You have to refuse to read the Bible properly in a 3rd person view in order to claim a Trinity to begin with. We must remember, if the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible, it must come from that view, not the writers view. In order to achieve 3 persons, you literally have to DENY the Holy Spirits view!

Again, Oneness people deny the interpersonal activity between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

It's as simple as that.

If Scripture teaches that there is interpersonal activity, it is error to claim that there are not more than one person.

 

[biker]

Again, Oneness people deny the interpersonal activity between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

It's as simple as that.

If Scripture teaches that there is interpersonal activity, it is error to claim that there are not more than one person.

What are you talking about?
You are saying something you have no idea about.
God is ONE.
From God we have the Father-WORD-Holy Spirit.

But to mentally think these are 3 people when there is NO EVIDENCE and we even have Jesus own Spoken Words (the Father dwelling in Jesus words John 14:10) means you must create illogic in your mind.

 

[biker]

I would love to perform a mental eval on you UWC. I would bet there are things you are hiding that is very deep seeded mentally. You have no grasp of common sense at all.

 

[biker]

Jesus twice made it clear but you have chosen to refuse His words. How will that go on Judgement Day?

 

[biker]

Choosing a CREED over the very words of Christ must be making God thrilled beyond all recognition, don't you think?

Why deny Mark 12 and John 4?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Again, Oneness people deny the interpersonal activity between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

It's as simple as that.

If Scripture teaches that there is interpersonal activity, it is error to claim that there are not more than one person.

Either that, or the Christ is talking to Himself.

 

[biker]

Show me where there are 3 persons in Heaven, without creating an illogic point to make it a reality, and I will believe!