Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

[biker]

And for a Reference:

This comes from the Church Fathers!


God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.

but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.

 

[biker]

I am Pentecostal. Still believe God is triune, but Mark 12:32-34/John 4:23/24 gave me a new view of God from JESUS' perspective where He (Jesus) confirms God is ONE PERSON!

 

[biker]

Mark 12:
32And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Jesus' answer:

34 And Jesus, perceiving him, that he answered wisely, said to him, "Not far are you from the kingdom of God.And no one dared to inquire of Him any longer."


Verse 32 the Scribe claimed God is ONE and there is NONE BUT HE (Singular).
Verse 33 the Scribe calls God HIM

Verse 34 Jesus knows the Scribe said the TRUTH and told the Scribe he was not far from the Kingdom of God.


This tells me the Scribe believes there is only One Person representing God and Jesus confirms it.

The Scribe copies the Bible all day of his entire life and Jesus confirms what the Scribe claims about who God is!

 

[NOV25]

I am Pentecostal. Still believe God is triune, but Mark 12:32-34/John 4:23/24 gave me a new view of God from JESUS' perspective where He (Jesus) confirms God is ONE PERSON!

So 1 God 1 person instead of 1 God 3 persons? Is this similar to the oneness Pentecostal view, have to admit, I’m not too familiar with that view.

 

[biker]

So 1 God 1 person instead of 1 God 3 persons? Is this similar to the oneness Pentecostal view, have to admit, I’m not too familiar with that view.

NO!

I am figuring it out myself. I was more inline with Assemblies of God which is trinity to the max. But the concept of 3 people running around being 1 God never made sense to me. And as someone who deals with Neurology and the study of the mind, it made more sense the 3 person theory was insanity. But I accepted it because that is how I was taught. But I found what the Church Fathers formatted and could see they did not believe the 3 person idealism either. But that made no sense because where would it be in the Bible for them to conclude as they have, which is this I am copying/pasting:

God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.

but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.


But a month ago, I was doing some random search online which led me to John 4: 23-24, which is God calling God a Spirit but also giving the Spirit a male term in the word HE.

Then last week while reading my Bible in a year, a few Old and a couple New Testament Chapters, I was behind on my New and ended up reading Mark 12. And I could clearly see the Scribe, whose entire life is copying the Bible and knowing the Bible in and out tells Jesus to His face that God is 1 Person. I figure Christ is going to lay the hammer down and correct him, but NO! Instead, Jesus confirms to the Scribe God is 1 Person and then rewards the Scribe.

It floored me, so I went to the Greek and researched and even the Greek specifies the Scribe claims 1 Person to God.

I prayed and just waited upon God and finally felt a true Peace from the Holy Spirit.

So, I am a new convert on this but I can definitely see after removing the blinders that Mark 12 and John 4 give us from JESUS HIMSELF who God truthfully is.

And the best part, it matches the copy/paste of the Church Fathers. So this must be what they figured out themselves along with the Apostle John's Disciples (Church Fathers) Polycarp and Iggy.

 

[biker]

To me, this here:

God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.

but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.

means:
God in One Package (the FATHER), but there are 2 specific Parts of God (the WORD and the WISDOM [Holy Spirit]) that remain a part of God but can also work independently. So, they are always Internal and External to the One body of God.

And if we search the Scriptures, we know the specific Purposes of the WORD and the WISDOM.

Creation, Salvation, Resurrection, Gifts, direct connection to God, confirming Christ, Comforter, eventual final Judgement.

How I am piecing this together, it appears that God used His Own body to fulfill His Will!

Because according to the Church Fathers, the WORD and WISDOM were internal of God's Body. Then God begat them on Purpose basis to fulfill His Ultimate Design and Plan. But they are always Internal of God's Body, but to fulfill God's Will can work External and Independently.

I am trying to figure it out.

God will show me.

I know so, because I never paid attention to Mark 12 and John 4 before. And now like a Big Boom, it has opened up to me. So I know God is going to reveal it to me.

 

[Blain]

I am super late to this thread but in all honesty I don't understand how one cannot believe in the trinity we only need one reference to know it is true because Jesus basically came out and claimed to be God if the trinity was not a thing then he just spoke blasphemy, in the pharisees defence though no one had dared to make such a claim especially not a simple looking while obvious great teacher man. I mean if you heard someone in real life make such a claim how would you respond?

 

[biker]

I am super late to this thread but in all honesty I don't understand how one cannot believe in the trinity we only need one reference to know it is true because Jesus basically came out and claimed to be God if the trinity was not a thing then he just spoke blasphemy, in the pharisees defence though no one had dared to make such a claim especially not a simple looking while obvious great teacher man. I mean if you heard someone in real life make such a claim how would you respond?

You act like God cannot be the same Being on Earth and in Heaven at same time. But then yet, still believe God is Omnipresent! How do you think God is Omnipresent?

 

[biker]

It's like I am full of the Holy Spirit and you are full of the Holy Spirit, but when we get together in Jesus Name, the Holy Spirit is not there but Jesus is there in the midst.

Does the Holy Spirit become Jesus?

No, it's all the same Person is how.


That is a revealing verse when 2 or more are gathered in my name I am in the midst. But He is there via the Holy Spirit. So, how does the Holy Spirit become Jesus? Because they are the same Being is how.

 

[Blain]

You act like God cannot be the same Being on Earth and in Heaven at same time. But then yet, still believe God is Omnipresent! How do you think God is Omnipresent?

? I never said he cannot and that is in fact the entire message of the trinity the God head three in one

 

[biker]

Paul said the (S)pirit [capital S indicating Holy Spirit] that lives in our heart is the Spirit of Christ.
I was taught the Holy Spirit lives in my heart.
If the Holy Spirit lives in my heart and Paul said this is the Spirit of Christ, that kind of makes them the same somehow.

 

[biker]

? I never said he cannot and that is in fact the entire message of the trinity the God head three in one

But that is saying God needs 3 people to be omnipresent.
How can He be God but need multiple people to be everywhere?
I thought God can do anything?
Therefore, God should be able to be in Heaven and on Earth just from One Body because He is God.

 

[biker]

In my view, He is Omnipresent from One Person because He knew what would happen before it ever happened. Predestination enables 1 person to be everywhere at once because He already knows each outcome before it begins.

He knows who will have faith for a miracle and a miracle will take place at the exact time needed because before God made Earth He knew this would take place. But you multiply that by every person who lived and you have Omniscient and Omnipresence.

 

[biker]

Predestination is a great enabler to be everywhere at once, all knowing, all seeing, etc..

 

[biker]

We think today 8 billion people.
But God knew everyone of our lives til death in all specifics before we were ever born.
That is All Knowing and being able to be everywhere.
Because He knows before it ever takes place.

^
So, you don't have to be multiple people when you know the outcomes and specifics before they ever begin.

 

[biker]

Tomorrow, I might be in a situation where my Faith is tested and God saves the Day.
He knew this before ever speaking the Universe into place.
So, He has known my every day, every single minute, every moment for who knows how long and then from Adam to when I was born.

When you have that knowledge, you don't need an entourage of people. You just need ONE!

 

[biker]

Bible says, He knows how many hairs are on my head.

That's Omniscient, He knows my tomorrow, that is Omnipresent. He is able to be these things because He knew my everything for my entire life before I was ever in the lineage that eventually led to me.

 

[biker]

People think Omnipresent is current like right now this very second.
It is, but for God, it is waiting for the moment to happen that He has created thousands/millions/billions/who knows how many of years before.

He created today possibly a trillion years ago. But what happens today God is omnipresent from then til now because He CREATED IT to happen and take place!

It's not like it happens and God is caught off guard. He already knew before I was ever a twinkle in my Daddy's eye.

 

[Blain]

But that is saying God needs 3 people to be omnipresent.
How can He be God but need multiple people to be everywhere?
I thought God can do anything?
Therefore, God should be able to be in Heaven and on Earth just from One Body because He is God.

The God head is less three seperate people in one and more like three separate omnipresent beings. The mind or head (father) the body ( Jesus) and the soul or spirit ( holy ghost) We were made in his image and this isn't to be said that we look like him but we were made with mind body and soul. He is everywhere and all knowing and the seperate traits are not in any way discounting this it merely is how he represents himself and how we were made in his image. He doesn't require a body but made himself flesh in Christ.

He relates to us, he shows why and how we were made in his image

 

[biker]

The God head is less three seperate people in one and more like three separate omnipresent beings. The mind or head (father) the body ( Jesus) and the soul or spirit ( holy ghost) We were made in his image and this isn't to be said that we look like him but we were made with mind body and soul. He is everywhere and all knowing and the seperate traits are not in any way discounting this it merely is how he represents himself and how we were made in his image. He doesn't require a body but made himself flesh in Christ.

He relates to us, he shows why and how we were made in his image

This post of yours CANNOT BE FOUND in the Bible.

It can be found in a CREED.

Which is more important, what the Bible claims or what some CREED claims?