Another Salvation Thread: Sin and Salvation

[Eli1]

You have two questions, which one first?

Go with that one that you quoted.

 

[HeIsHere]

Go with that one that you quoted.

This posted by @wattie answers why a person who sins is still saved.

"The spirit is indwelled with the Holy Spirit. From this point, the spirit never sins, but the flesh nature, being human, does."


The Holy Spirit dwelling in the spirit of a person cannot sin, this is what John is explaining in his letter,

 

[Eli1]

This posted by @wattie answers why a person who sins is still saved.

"The spirit is indwelled with the Holy Spirit. From this point, the spirit never sins, but the flesh nature, being human, does."


The Holy Spirit dwelling in the spirit of a person cannot sin, that is what John is explaining in his letter,

That directly contradicts what JESUS CHRIST said about LOVING your neighbor, NOT killing your neighbor.

I mean did you even read?

What kind of salvation is this? Zombie salvation?

 

[HeIsHere]

That directly contradicts what JESUS CHRIST said about LOVING your neighbor, NOT killing your neighbor.

I mean did you even read?

What kind of salvation is this? Zombie salvation?

It does not contradict Jesus, Jesus was speaking to the Jews and in some places raising the bar beyond the law, so they would see their need for a Saviour.

It is important to remember the audience who is receiving the information and why.

 

[Gideon300]

I’m sorry this is very confusing my friend and I thank you for your response but to simplify things a bit let’s start with what Jesus said to the apostilles in the end.
He told them to spread His message and the summary of the Jewish customs which is like 620 customs or something which you call The Law and he told it to them into one sentence.

Love your God and love your neighbor.

With this simple sentence he summarized like 620 rules or whatever the number was.

Now, in the spirit of keeping things simple:

How can you love your neighbor by killing him, stealing his house and his wife and then EXPECT to go to Heaven?

Make this simple for me please.

How could King David, perhaps the most privileged man on earth at the time, steal another man's wife? Then murder her husband to cover up his evil? Well, he did exactly that. According to some Christians, David should be in hell. He won't be, as he was forgiven.

Remember too that David did not confess to God until he was called out by the prophet Nathan. And by rights, David should have been stoned to death for adultery and executed for the murder of Uriah.

God is the judge. He looks at the heart and he knows why people do evil. Jesus said that if you hate someone, you are a murderer. If a man looks at a woman with lust, he is an adulterer. God's law is nowhere near God's real standard.

The man who covets his neighbour's house is as guilty as the one who swindles him out of it. The man who lusts after the neighbour's wife is as guilty as the one who commits adultery with her.

Will God forgive such people? Yes. Because He is God. Because Jesus died for all the sin of all mankind. Because God is gracious and merciful.

Now if someone is deliberately and willfully stealing houses and seducing women (or men - women can be just as evil) and does not repent, then I doubt their salvation.

 

[Eli1]

It does not contradict Jesus, Jesus was speaking to the Jews and in some places raising the bar beyond the law, so they would see their need for a Saviour.

Lady He was speaking to the Jews to spread The Word to non Jews, baptize in the name of the Father, Son and The Holy Spirit and to LOVE God and your neighbor.

And besides this isn’t the full discussion of Salvation, this is barely scratching the surface.

Here’s my counter offer to you.
Love God with whatever way you desire, hopefully you won’t end up in jail during the process and make more atheists along the way, but I don’t pretend to KNOW the Mind of God in HOW He’s going to judge us all when we have to face Him.

I DO take the words of Jesus very seriously though from the Bible, as a typical chain of command would require since He is God incarnated.

So if He says Love your neighbor, I want to AVOID killing a neighbor even in self-defense.
And then I still don’t judge about my fate. He knows my fate not mere mortals

 

[Gideon300]

That directly contradicts what JESUS CHRIST said about LOVING your neighbor, NOT killing your neighbor.

I mean did you even read?

What kind of salvation is this? Zombie salvation?

Please remember that being told what to do/not do does not empower anyone to obey. If it did, Jesus need not have died.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I think when John said those born of God do not sin because God's seed remains in them he meant a person will become unable, or let's say less likely, to sin as the seed grows within him and transforms his nature into Christ

 

[soulprobe]

Wow, a believer who is superior to the apostle Paul. He called himself the chief of sinners. Please, continue to call out all us wicked people who have yet to arrive at your exalted position.

I'm sure that this forum is overloaded with murderers, thieves, liars and adulterers. Yes, judge and condemn them all! After all, you will be judged according to the way you judge others. That won't be a problem, will it? You are perfect. Or so you say.

"Brothers, if someone is caught in a trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him with a spirit of gentleness. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted." Galatians 6:1

No.... I was the Chief of the chiefs of sinners... and like Paul I overcame and don't teach Christians that it's OK to continue sinning (in Paul's case, continue stoning Christians) because they'll still be saved. And I'm sure this forum is overloaded with murderers, thieves, liars and adulterers and hopefully they will repent and stop teaching Christians on your advice that it's OK to continue being murderers, thieves, liars and adulterers cause they'll still be saved. And yes... those who trespass should be restored with gentleness after they repent and those that teach that Christians can repeatedly trespass till their last breath and still be saved should be admonished.

 

[Eli1]

How could King David, perhaps the most privileged man on earth at the time, steal another man's wife? Then murder her husband to cover up his evil? Well, he did exactly that. According to some Christians, David should be in hell. He won't be, as he was forgiven.

Remember too that David did not confess to God until he was called out by the prophet Nathan. And by rights, David should have been stoned to death for adultery and executed for the murder of Uriah.

God is the judge. He looks at the heart and he knows why people do evil. Jesus said that if you hate someone, you are a murderer. If a man looks at a woman with lust, he is an adulterer. God's law is nowhere near God's real standard.

The man who covets his neighbour's house is as guilty as the one who swindles him out of it. The man who lusts after the neighbour's wife is as guilty as the one who commits adultery with her.

Will God forgive such people? Yes. Because He is God. Because Jesus died for all the sin of all mankind. Because God is gracious and merciful.

Now if someone is deliberately and willfully stealing houses and seducing women (or men - women can be just as evil) and does not repent, then I doubt their salvation.

Hmm you’re not really helping me with David here since I’ve mentioned that he is the least favorite person in the Bible but you are more clear about doing anything you want and ultimately go to Heaven.
I do agree that God judges the heart but when God says “don’t kill” I don’t want to experiment with pushing the boundaries of understanding clear words.

 

[Eli1]

Please remember that being told what to do/not do does not empower anyone to obey. If it did, Jesus need not have died.

Yes I understand this part from endless discussions (with a Calvinist twist) but now I understand you better and I’m not sure that you’ve realized that you contradicted yourself in those two posts earlier.

But yes, God judges the heart and hopefully you don’t end up in jail during the process before you go to Heaven.

 

[HeIsHere]

Lady He was speaking to the Jews to spread The Word to non Jews, baptize in the name of the Father, Son and The Holy Spirit and to LOVE God and your neighbor.

And besides this isn’t the full discussion of Salvation, this is barely scratching the surface.

Here’s my counter offer to you.
Love God with whatever way you desire, hopefully you won’t end up in jail during the process and make more atheists along the way, but I don’t pretend to KNOW the Mind of God in HOW He’s going to judge us all when we have to face Him.

I DO take the words of Jesus very seriously though from the Bible, as a typical chain of command would require since He is God incarnated.

So if He says Love your neighbor, I want to AVOID killing a neighbor even in self-defense.
And then I still don’t judge about my fate. He knows my fate not mere mortals

Jesus came to the Jew first.

You have yet to accept the milk, you refuse to discuss it, so how could you ever understand the meat?

Well it is sad that you deny that spiritual salvation is for today, but that is your choice.

For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
2 Cor. 6:2

 

[soulprobe]

I honest to God feel bad for you.
Deluded for all these years.

“Lord,Lord, did I not go 50 years without taking Your Name in vain? and didn’t lie? Ok, ok, a few small fibs, but I know you grade on a curve! And no adultery? Yeah there was that one girl I glanced at with a smidgen of lust, but surely that can’t count! And that post on CC, was that boasting? And yet, my buddies 82 Corvette was sweet! Coveting?”

Pathetic actually.

I was asked a question, I gave an honest answer. You want me to lie? I quess that would be OK according to you because I can lie and still be saved. Even Christ was tempted but he did not sin. I was a chief sinner like Paul but with God's help I overcame. Christians are commanded to overcome... they are not commanded to teach Christians that it's OK to freely sin till their last breath because they'll still be save.

 

[Eli1]

Jesus came to the Jew first.

You have yet to accept the milk, you refuse to discuss it, so how could you ever understand the meat?

Well it is sad that you deny that spiritual salvation is for today, but that is your choice.

For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
2 Cor. 6:2

Lady you are like the most confused person here with tons of contradictions in a lot of what you say.
Gideon is 10 times clearer than you despite my disagreement.
With you it’s like trying to speak in sign language.

I told you that is a clear contradiction of the Highest Authority.
Jesus is the highest authority!
So if he says Don’t kill, I’m not going to cherry pick the bible to support my love for guns and start killing for sport.
Nope. Not gonna do that.

 

[soulprobe]

You didn't answer the question. Do you sin?

I gave the answer.... if I don't do any of those thing I don't sin. Now do you have the courage to answer the same question, honestly... without exercising your doctrine of being able to be dishonest till your last breath and still be saved?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

How could King David, perhaps the most privileged man on earth at the time, steal another man's wife? Then murder her husband to cover up his evil? Well, he did exactly that. According to some Christians, David should be in hell. He won't be, as he was forgiven.

Remember too that David did not confess to God until he was called out by the prophet Nathan. And by rights, David should have been stoned to death for adultery and executed for the murder of Uriah.

God likely forgave David because he had made a covenant with him that his seed, the messiah, would rule Israel forever. Him forgiving David and bringing the messiah through his adulterous wife is really a statement of God's faithfulness and grace.

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

Look: We Christians all sin: we try no to, but we do! We're only human! But JESUS died on The Cross, and ROSE AGAIN, to forgive us for our sins: past, present, and future!

 

[HeIsHere]

Lady you are like the most confused person here with tons of contradictions in a lot of what you say.
Gideon is 10 times clearer than you despite my disagreement.
With you it’s like trying to speak in sign language.

I told you that is a clear contradiction of the Highest Authority.
Jesus is the highest authority!
So if he says Don’t kill, I’m not going to cherry pick the bible to support my love for guns and start killing for sport.
Nope. Not gonna do that.

Perhaps pray God remove the blinders you have on.

It is obvious that you do not understand the completed work of Christ Jesus.

 

[HeIsHere]

Look: We Christians all sin: we try no to, but we do! We're only human! But JESUS died on The Cross, and ROSE AGAIN, to forgive us for our sins: past, present, and future!

Amen.

People who go on about sin are really telling us they have a problem with Grace.

 

[Eli1]

Perhaps pray God remove the blinders you have on.

It is obvious that you do not understand the completed work of Christ Jesus.

It’s obvious that you’re very confused about what Jesus says NOT to do but you might think it’s okay to do it because some other men before you cherry picked the Bible