And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[FreeGrace2]

Here’s the truth. The wicked perish in body, soul, and spirit.

And, of course, you have a verse that says that, right? Sure.

Remember, “the soul who sins shall die. “Cleae, precise, the trump card to bury your false doctrines once and for all.

Pathetic. This verse from the OT is about captital punishment. That's death of a body. Not the immaterial soul.

James 4:12
"God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy."

Hebrews 10:39
"But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction..."

Philippians 3:18-19
"For I have told you often before, and I say it again with tears in my eyes, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Christ.
19 They are headed for destruction."

Psalm 92:7
"Though the wicked sprout like weeds and evildoers flourish they will be destroyed forever."

Psalm 37:20
"But the wicked will die... they will disappear like smoke."

Psalm 1:6:
"... For the Lord watches over the path of the godly, but the path of the wicked leads to destruction."

Hebrews 10:26-27
"There is only the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies."

2 Peter 3:7
"...for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed."

Romans 2:7
"He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers."

Genesis 3:19
"For you were made from dust, and to dust you will return."

Psalm 146:4
"When they breathe their last, they return to the earth, and all their plans die with them."

Ecclesiastes 9:5
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die.
Jeremiah 19:5
"They have built pagan shrines to Baal, and there they burn their sons as sacrifices to Baal. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed My mind to command such a thing!"

Malachi 4:1, 4:3 "The day of judgment is coming, burning like a furnace. On that day the arrogant and the wicked will be burned up like straw. They will be consumed—roots, branches, and all... On the day when I act, you will tread upon the wicked as if they were dust under your feet," says the Lord of Heaven's Armies."

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."

John 6:51
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever" (the offer to live forever only makes sense if it were possible to not live forever.)

2 Thessalonians 1:9
"They will be punished with eternal destruction,forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power."

Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death."

2 Peter 2:6
"and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly"

Revelation 20:14-15
"And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."

Rather than address each verse separated, which I've already done, I'll just note that all mention of death refers to the resurrected mortal body of unbelievers. end of story.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It’s always funny to me that, almost without fail, the things you accuse others of doing is the thing you’re about to do: post a foolish comment.

Now you’ll be corrected and refuted by the word of God.

You say there is no verse where the soul dies?

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die.

Anyone who does in their sins their soul will die. Very clear. That’s the fate of the unsaved.

There are 32 verses in Ezek 18. The entire chapter is about physical death. If you are unable to determine that, there is no use to even have a discussion with you.

v.20 is NOT about immaterial souls.

 

[Runningman]

There are 32 verses in Ezek 18. The entire chapter is about physical death. If you are unable to determine that, there is no use to even have a discussion with you.

v.20 is NOT about immaterial souls.

It’s about immaterial souls. All you’ve proven is that the Bible clearly isn’t sacred and will bend over backwards to twist the plain words of the Bible to suit your false doctrine.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die.

That’s a fact.

 

[Runningman]

And, of course, you have a verse that says that, right? Sure.


Pathetic. This verse from the OT is about captital punishment. That's death of a body. Not the immaterial soul.


Rather than address each verse separated, which I've already done, I'll just note that all mention of death refers to the resurrected mortal body of unbelievers. end of story.

That’s false.

These verses refer to the body soul and spirit. That’s why Ezekiel says the soul who sins shall die, Jesus said God is able to destroy body and soul hell, and James said God is able to save or destroy. The only options are being saved or destroyed. No ECT option.

 

[Runningman]

FreeGrace2 said:
Sure are. And you can't find ANY of them in my posts. But they are ALL OVER yours.

That's a challenge. Find one and prove me wrong. But of course you won't because you can't.

You called me a crying drunk. That’s what maudlin means. I knew you’d just lash out and say I’m lying, but like always you project what your intentions are before you do them. Denying you did something that you clearly did is called a lie.

This isn’t much of a Biblical discussion anymore.

It’s a grown man named FreGrace2 having a tantrum because he isn’t able to prove ECT for all of the unsaved, nor can he deceive others into believing him, but you’ve already gone all-in.

You’re desperate to regain credibility, thinking if you attack your debate opponents, say their comments are foolish, call them crying drunks, and dehumanize them by comparing them to mindless birds you’ll regain something.

The only thing you’ll gain is the praise you’ll receive from your ECT ilk. My praise will be from God.

 

[Jackson123]

What a load of nonsense. I hadn’t even heard of Ellen White until yesterday. I don’t believe people should kill themself either nor did I ever say that. You’re a liar. I’m not even going to ask you to show the post number because it doesn’t exist.

Using dishonestly just hurts your already diminished credibility. I don’t know why you people resort to lies and slander to try to bolster your position.

As for me, I’ll just keep quoting verses proving that destroy means cease to exist. You have no verses to prove anything you’re saying.

You not aware why devil lie to you, if you know that it is lie than you not believe it
tell me why you dont believe eternal punishment as say in Matt 25:46

 

[Runningman]

You not aware why devil lie to you, if you know that it is lie than you not believe it
tell me why you dont believe eternal punishment as say in Matt 25:46

The eternal punishment in Matt 25:46 is death/destruction. They perish. That’s clear from many verses so that’s what I believe.

 

[kleronomos]

This isn’t much of a Biblical discussion anymore.
.

Please do me a favor and go look up Psalms 37:20 in the Hebrew and tell me if it ALSO reads like this for you. If so, what a weird way to 'translate' it, don't you think?



THIS WAY LEAVES ABSOLUTELY NO WIGGLE ROOM.


But the wicked shall perish and the enemies of YHVH like the splendor of the meadows shall vanish into smoke they shall vanish away


3615 kalah
Strong's Concordance
kalah: to be complete, at an end, finished, accomplished, or spent
Original Word: כָּלָה
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kalah
Phonetic Spelling: (kaw-law')
Definition: to be complete, at an end, finished, accomplished, or spent

accomplish, cease, consume away, determine, destroy utterly
A primitive root; to end, whether intransitive (to cease, be finished, perish)

or transitived (to complete, prepare, consume) -- accomplish, cease, consume (away), determine, destroy (utterly), be (when... Were) done, (be an) end (of), expire, (cause to) fail, faint, finish, fulfil, X fully, X have, leave (off), long, bring to pass, wholly reap, make clean riddance, spend, quite take away, waste.



6227 ashan ►
Strong's Concordance
ashan: smoke
Original Word: עָשָׁן
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: ashan
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-shawn')
Definition: smoke, vapor

From ashan; smoke, literally or figuratively (vapor, dust, anger)

 

[Jackson123]

The eternal punishment in Matt 25:46 is death/destruction. They perish. That’s clear from many verses so that’s what I believe.

definition of perish
suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.

not cease to exist

 

[peldom10]

Not sure how new age Augustine is, though there is nothing new under the sun, after all.

Good ol' Augustine. He developed a number of Roman Catholic heresies. Immortality of the soul was one of them.

Anyone who adheres to ECT walks in the footsteps of such heretical teachings.

Hs nothing to do with my point.
U best get tuned to God's word and intent.

 

[Magenta]

Hs nothing to do with my point.
U best get tuned to God's word and intent.

It has everything to do with your non-point. There is nothing "new age" about conditional immortality.

 

[peldom10]

It has everything to do with your non-point. There is nothing "new age" about conditional immortality.

You do not understand what new age religion contains....by your comments.

 

[Runningman]

definition of perish
suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.

not cease to exist

Being destroyed means that the person destroyed isn’t a person anymore. They certainly won’t be alive and conscious.

So I have ample proof they will cease to exist, you don’t have proof they won’t cease to exist. This is really a no brainer.

 

[Runningman]

Please do me a favor and go look up Psalms 37:20 in the Hebrew and tell me if it ALSO reads like this for you. If so, what a weird way to 'translate' it, don't you think?



THIS WAY LEAVES ABSOLUTELY NO WIGGLE ROOM.


But the wicked shall perish and the enemies of YHVH like the splendor of the meadows shall vanish into smoke they shall vanish away


3615 kalah
Strong's Concordance
kalah: to be complete, at an end, finished, accomplished, or spent
Original Word: כָּלָה
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kalah
Phonetic Spelling: (kaw-law')
Definition: to be complete, at an end, finished, accomplished, or spent

accomplish, cease, consume away, determine, destroy utterly
A primitive root; to end, whether intransitive (to cease, be finished, perish)

or transitived (to complete, prepare, consume) -- accomplish, cease, consume (away), determine, destroy (utterly), be (when... Were) done, (be an) end (of), expire, (cause to) fail, faint, finish, fulfil, X fully, X have, leave (off), long, bring to pass, wholly reap, make clean riddance, spend, quite take away, waste.



6227 ashan ►
Strong's Concordance
ashan: smoke
Original Word: עָשָׁן
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: ashan
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-shawn')
Definition: smoke, vapor

From ashan; smoke, literally or figuratively (vapor, dust, anger)

I agree with you that it’s an I interesting way to translate it when they could have just simply used the literal word or phrase to say what happens to the wicked. Maybe they wanted more poetic or dramatic effect.

H3615 kalah seems to be in step with the general context which is that they perish.

H6. abad
Strong's Concordance

abad: to perish
Original Word: אָבַד
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: abad
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-bad')
Definition: to perish

They’re utterly destroyed. Ceasing to exist is an accurate way to put it as well. Someone who is destroyed is put to death, they aren’t in existence anymore, at least not as a living conscious being.​

 

[Magenta]

You do not understand what new age religion contains....by your comments.

New age is a misnomer, and there is nothing "new" or "new age" about conditional immortality.

Of course, you could call anything new age according to your understanding.

I understand Scripture The soul of man is not inherently immortal as many claim.

That just plain contradicts what is explicitly stated in Scripture elsewhere.

 

[Jackson123]

Being destroyed means that the person destroyed isn’t a person anymore. They certainly won’t be alive and conscious.

So I have ample proof they will cease to exist, you don’t have proof they won’t cease to exist. This is really a no brainer.

What verse say destroy mean unconscious ?

 

[Runningman]

What verse say destroy mean unconscious ?

If someone is destroyed with fire it means they can’t be conscious.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6
5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Nothing of them remains, not even their thoughts or feelings. They won’t be in existence forever to do anything under the sun. That’s clear.

 

[Jackson123]

Eternal mean never ending

eternal punishment mean never ending punishment

why punish unconscious soul?

SDA say God is love, SDA say because of love, He will not put people into eternal punishment
It's strange that he doesn't believe in God's eternal punishment but believes Satan is eternally punished

 

[Runningman]

Eternal mean never ending

eternal punishment mean never ending punishment

why punish unconscious soul?

The punishment isn’t on going. The eternal punishment is a punishment with everlasting effect which is why the eterbal punish is death. I.e., death lasts forever.

SDA say God is love, SDA say because of love, He will not put people into eternal punishment
It's strange that he doesn't believe in God's eternal punishment but believes Satan is eternally punished

No on here is a SDA so that’s irrelevant. You keep trying to make us out to be cult members, but your own judgements will return to you. Your belief in ECT for all of the unsaved is found in the Quran, not the Bible. So are you a Muslim?

 

[Jackson123]

If someone is destroyed with fire it means they can’t be conscious.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6
5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Nothing of them remains, not even their thoughts or feelings. They won’t be in existence forever to do anything under the sun. That’s clear.

where It say their soul unconscious