And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[kleronomos]

Ashes are for the physical world, a world of matter.

All of your quotes are for this world.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.


Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


The SPIRITUAL WORLD IN NO LESS PHYSICAL THAN THIS WORLD IS. Why would we need IMPERISHABLE bodies if we were in a world that was 'AIR'.

There are PEOPLE and HORSES and TEMPLES.


WE ARE THE SHADOW OF WHAT IS TO COMES. We are made LESS than the angels. Compared to the world TO COME, this world is nothing.

Remember we are living in a PROCESS of decay. This earth is WAXING OLD.

The garden of Eden had NO WEEDS. It didn't even rain until SIN came into the world. There was no SWEAT.... None of those where a 'reality' BEFORE as they will NOT BE A REALITY in the NEW Heaven and earth.

BUT NO LESS TANGIBLE than we are now. Just in a different realm/dimension.

 

[kleronomos]

Prove it.

There’s a temple in heaven, a stream, a tree, among other things. Spiritual things that are described using physical terms.

Matthew 10:28 says to not fear those who can only kill the body. So if, to you, all of those verses about being turned to ashes are just physical then there’s nothing to fear and literal fire won’t effect souls? So no eternal torment then?

A very good point.

Just some interesting Scriptures I was reminded of, the differences aren't as much as it may first seem, in some areas anyhow.

Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Matt 9:28
and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this?

They said unto him, Yea, Lord.

29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.



Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


According to your faith be it unto you.


The Christian must decided who they see the Lord God Almighty as a God of Torture without Mercy or as Merciful with the wisdom to know, there is nothing anyone could do that would required endless torture endlessly.

A THOUGHT, A BELIEF, and A FEELING that truly matters. As I read and studied the words of God my CONCLUSION was/is He is MOST Honorable and Just and Merciful and TORTURE WITHOUT AN END, doesn't fit for even a second.


For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

When we are told over and over to be Loving and Kind and Merciful and Charitable AND TO LOVE OUR ENEMIES, I see that as an EXTENSION of who God is Himself. And He proves that is how HE WORKS time and again. GOD tells us He uses 'chastisement' for OUR OWN GOOD

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
You would have to have a verse showing:

1. God actually destroying souls.
2. Scripture clearly indicating that the GWT crowd WON'T get what the beast and FP will get.

So far, you don't have anything.

1. It is implied that we take the verse that claims Gods ability to destroy both body and soul as an immediate threat, a clear and present danger evidenced with the directive to 'fear' this. If we do not accept that God actually will, then we must adopt this danger as an empty theat.

It is still a presumption that God will. To be able to does NOT mean "will". Period.

The point was clearly to "fear" meaning respect, God who is omnipotent, rather than mere men who can only kill the body.

2. Scripture clearly indicates the GWT crowd get what the antichrist, FP, and dragon will get so, logically if we accept annihilation for them, we must accept annihilation of those three also. I am in this group, and may be alone in it atm, as I currently do not accept 'torment' to be the most precisely translated term used for the original.

I agree with your point that what the beast, FP and EVERY fallen angel will get will be exactly what the GWT crowd gets when they will be cast into the LOF.

I firmly believe that the meaning of that term, basi-something, was intended to say 'Blackstone', which was a common practice of judgment used in the time of writing in the roman culture. This is directly correlated to the living-forever receiving a "Whitestone with their name written on it." The Blackstone would have no name written on it or, if it does, the name will be blotted out.

This is from a Greek lexicon for the word translated "torment" in Rev 20:10.

basanizó: to torture
Original Word: βασανίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: basanizó
Phonetic Spelling: (bas-an-id'-zo)
Definition: to torture
Usage: I examine, as by torture; I torment; I buffet, as of waves.
HELPS Word-studies
928 basanízō (from 931 /básanos, "a tormenting trial") – properly, to examine (literally by using torture).

The word is defined as "torture". Real simple. I think most people understand that the Romans were extremely cruel in their "judgments". ie, the cross for capital punishment. Designed to keep a person alive as long as possible in as much excruciating pain as possible.

I've been meditating on the subject of gratitude and, in following a Berean example of comparing others' ideas with what scripture says, I've adopted that approach comparing doctrine with its ramifications our thanksgiving in the reflection of God's glory. I.e., can everyone say, as everyone will, ultimately, give Him glory, "Thank God for this, He is rich in justice and mercy..."

I use the Berean method for study. I think you have misunderstood what they actually did.

When someone made comments or claims about Scripture, they "searched the Scriptures daily to see if what Paul said was true".

So, I apply that to the annihilationists. And I find that what they say is not found in Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Said the "dramatic one", who has such high sympathies for unbelievers who have NO EXCUSE for being cast into the LOF. Get real.

As opposed to you who has… no sympathy?

There you go again, with your hyper-sensitive sentiments.

This isn't about sympathy, as you seem to think. Opine, emote, etc. It's about God's justice. He has given the warning of not believing His promise of avoiding the torment that every fallen angel will get. And the unbelievers have no excuse. So "sympathy" isn't even on the table. God's grace and mercy were on the table as long as the person lived. Once they died, their opportunity to receive the free gift is GONE and they WILL DIE AGAIN when cast into the LOF and then their soul will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 19-20 doesn’t say their bodies are burned up. You want an inch? Prove it.

I've already explained how YOU can prove my claim. Remember your hand? Just put it in a fire and see what happens to it.

Those with sense don't have to do that because everyone else knows how physical flesh reacts to fire. Everyone.

I am not defending a view, I am just feeding you what the Bible says.

Please do. I haven't been "fed" what you are serving yet. I would love to hear it.

God is able to destroy body and soul because based on all of the verses in the Bible about the wicked perishing it’s the alternative to being saved.

But that isn't even the point of the verse. The word "fear" is used throughout Scripture to mean "respect". So, the verse teaches that we shouldn't respect humans but we must respect God.

And, "abe to" never means "will". Not ever. All it would take is a verse that actually says that souls will cease to exist.

What. You want me to get used to people quoting atheists?

Are you just trying to miss the point, every time?

Atheists are quoted to prove to you that their views aren't that different from YOUR view after death.

That's why you don't like hearing the quotes.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
No, I didn't mean that. And you know that. I mean your hyper emotional sentiments about human being being tormented for ever and ever, even though they themselves HAVE NO EXCUSE for ending up in the LOF.

That isn’t how I feel though, but you continue to insist on misrepresenting how I feel even after being corrected.

How many times have I had to correct your nutty "eternal life" for those being tormented for ever? So don't tell me about who misrepresent who.

You’re doing something called projecting. Big difference between your thoughts and feelings and other peoples.

Ha. I KNOW you have no evidence to prove that really silly claim.

Obviously we disagree that ECT exists for all of the unsaved so why would we think what you’re saying? Also, why do you capitalize random words?

Everyone (but you, it seems) knows that a single capitalized word if for emphasis. So when I capitalize YOU, I am emphasizing your personal self. And pointing my finger at your face.

ECT doesn’t mean someone didn’t want a relationship with God.

It is the result of someone who didnt' want a relationship with God. I explained more than you quoted, so again that's being dishonest.

Your intentions don’t override the plain definitions of words.

You've been schooled on the meaning of death, destruction, etc.

You’re using something those who oppose conditional immortality use.

Where does the Bible teach about "conditional immortality"? Please share where you learned about that concept.

And the Bible doesn’t support what you said.

Thanks for your opinion.

That’s not exact what it says. You’re adding words to Revelation.

Prove it.

You don’t know what confide means.

It means this:
tell someone about a secret or private matter while trusting them not to repeat it to others.
so you think you get a free pass and don’t have to quote the Bible to prove your point. Astounding.

I've always quoted verses that say what I believe.

And, btw, you've never even tried to refute the meaning I understand from the verses.

Matthew 10:28 proves God destroys souls.

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

You are wrong again. Again, "can" never means "will". Not ever. Not even ever and ever.

The verse teaches that we shouldn't respect humans, but should respect God.

Lexicon:
Strong's Concordance

phobeó: to put to flight, to terrify, frighten​

Original Word: φοβέομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: phobeó
Phonetic Spelling: (fob-eh'-o)
Definition: to put to flight, to terrify, frighten
Usage: I fear, dread, reverence, am afraid, terrified.

You seem to have a problem knowing which usage word to use in a given passage.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The Bereans would "search the Scriptures daily to see if what Rm sais was true". And they would find that there are no verses that say this. It is only an opinion, without any support from Scripture.

In fact, your error is even worse than just your rejection of ECT. No unbeliever has a human spirit, at least not a live one. So their dead spirit is already dead anyway.

So add that to your biblical errors.

The Bereans had access to the Old Testament which is what they would have searched. The scriptures they had to search would have included all of the OT scripture about the fate of the wicked being destroyed, killed, reduced to ash, and the soul who sins dying.

You really don’t have any clue.

You were correct that the "Scripture" searched by the Bereans was the OT. After that, you fell flat.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
I NEVER CALLED either of you a "crying drunk". That's what you 2 made up. I explained how I used that word WAY BEFORE either of you find your own dictionary.

Claiming ECT to be CRUEL is being over emotional, which is how I am using "maudlin". I really don't care how you want to use it, I already made myself clear about how I am using it, so all your blubbering about a "crying drunk" is purely your own nonsense.

Look up the word maudlin and be intellectually honest for a change. It means someone is emotional and tearful through drunkenness.

Not in the dictionary (on-line) I checked.

A man would say “you’re right, it was a bad choice of word,” but you dig in your heels, double down, triple down, quadruple down, etc.

Since I explained HOW I meant the word, and you just won't accept my explanation, I have nothing to admit.

You don’t have the authority to redefine words; your judgements and words will be held against you unless you repent.

Please go preach to someone else. I'm getting tired of your whining about maudlin.

You have proven your ability to get stuck on a singular idea. Like your obsession with KJV Rev 20:10, just because it doesn't have "they".

And you have obsessed over a dictionary that links maudlin to a drunk. Get.over.it.

New International Version
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

New Living Translation
Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

English Standard Version
and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Berean Study Bible
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

New American Standard Bible
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


Holman Christian Standard Bible
The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

International Standard Version
and the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were. They will be tortured day and night forever and ever.

NET Bible
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are too, and they will be tormented there day and night forever and ever.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And their Seducer, The Devil, was cast into The Lake of Fire and Brimstone where The Beast and The False Prophet are, and they shall be tormented day and night for the eternity of eternities.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were also thrown. They will be tortured day and night forever and ever.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

American Standard Version
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Darby Bible Translation
And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] both the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for the ages of ages.

English Revised Version
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Webster's Bible Translation
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. {this verse doesn't have "they" but it is clear the beast and FP are STILL THERE}

Weymouth New Testament
and the Devil, who had been leading them astray, was thrown into the Lake of fire and sulphur where the Wild Beast and the false Prophet were, and day and night they will suffer torture until the Ages of the Ages.

World English Bible
The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Young's Literal Translation
and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.

And you only quote the KJV? 17 translations have "they". 1 makes clear that the beast and FP are STiLL THERE. After 1,000 years.

Prove that a body will last even for a few hours in the fire. Right.

 

[Runningman]

we

FreeGrace2 said:
Said the "dramatic one", who has such high sympathies for unbelievers who have NO EXCUSE for being cast into the LOF. Get real.

seriously you're out of quality comments. You’ve already proven you’ll defend atheists.

Let’s just put this on the record now. Are you an atheist?

There you go again, with your hyper-sensitive sentiments.

Interesting, you’re completely unable to relate to people. You’re out of touch with reality.

This isn't about sympathy, as you seem to think. Opine, emote, etc. It's about God's justice. He has given the warning of not believing His promise of avoiding the torment that every fallen angel will get. And the unbelievers have no excuse. So "sympathy" isn't even on the table. God's grace and mercy were on the table as long as the person lived. Once they died, their opportunity to receive the free gift is GONE and they WILL DIE AGAIN when cast into the LOF and then their soul will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

A worthless comment if there ever was one. There you go randomly capitalizing words. You must be a screaming man. You must be a ton of fun at parties.

I've already explained how YOU can prove my claim. Remember your hand? Just put it in a fire and see what happens to it.

and your explanation is nonsense. When will you get it through your skull that you are not convincing anyone with your lies here?

Those with sense don't have to do that because everyone else knows how physical flesh reacts to fire. Everyone.

Which verse says it’s literal fire?

Please do. I haven't been "fed" what you are serving yet. I would love to hear it.

You’ve been here for 90+ pages and have learned nothing. That’s special.

But that isn't even the point of the verse. The word "fear" is used throughout Scripture to mean "respect". So, the verse teaches that we shouldn't respect humans but we must respect God.

Did you know Jesus trumps everyone? Seems like this should go without saying, but Jesus is supposed to be the Lord of Christians. He told me what to believe in the Bible so I obeyed and did it. It can’t be said the same for you.

And, "abe to" never means "will". Not ever. All it would take is a verse that actually says that souls will cease to exist.

Best verse is Matthew 10:28. Now your turn: provide a verse that says unsaved souls will live forever.

Are you just trying to miss the point, every time?

I could ask the same of you.

Atheists are quoted to prove to you that their views aren't that different from YOUR view after death.

Have you even tried to reach atheists?

Most of them despise people like you and will reject Christ vehemently because they think they’ll be punished forever.

Actually, they’re about the same as you. They’ll argue a lot until they finally see that there is no eternal torment for all of the unsaved.

That's why you don't like hearing the quotes.

I believe everything in the Bible. You believe in a religion made by FreeGrace.

 

[kleronomos]

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

1Samuel 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
7 The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.
8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them.
9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.
10 The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: BUT RATHER FEAR HIM which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

And HE SAYS HE DOES. And HE SAYS there is a 2ND death. And those who have faith should know He not only is able but WILL.




CONSCIOUS, what are the 'requirements' for CONSCIOUSNESS OF TORMENT/TORTURE?

4894 suneidon to see together, hence to comprehend
Usage: I know, consider, am privy to.
aware (1), realized (1).

to see (have seen) in one's mind, with oneself
i. e. to understand, perceive, comprehend (became aware)
1. to know with another, be privy to
2. to know in one's mind or with oneself; to be conscious of

respectively meaning to understand or become aware, and to be conscious or (clandestinely) informed of -- consider, know, be privy, be ware of.


4893 suneidésis - consciousness, spec. conscience
Usage: the conscience, a persisting notion.

4893 syneídēsis (from 4862 /sýn, "together with" and 1492 /eídō "to know, see") – properly, joint-knowing, i.e. conscience which joins moral and spiritual consciousness as part of being created in the divine image. Accordingly, all people have this God-given capacity to know right from wrong because each is a free moral agent




Ecclesiastes 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

If this is an EXAMPLE OF THE FIRST DEATH, the one we are NOT to fear
then HOW could the death we are to fear HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS?

 

[49]

How many times has this thread come around full circle??

 

[kleronomos]

3800 opsónion - provisions, wages
pay, wages, salary, reward FITTING COMPENSATION


is used figuratively for the eternal compensation (divine recompense) of the unrighteous, in keeping with their earthly deeds (Ro 6:23).



The hire that sin pays IS

2288 thanatos - death
Definition: death
Usage: death, physical or spiritual.

2288 thánatos (derived from 2348 /thnḗskō, "to die") – physical or spiritual death; (figuratively) separation from the life (salvation) of God forever by dying without first experiencing death to self to receive His gift of salvation.



FROM
2348 thnéskó - to die
Definition: to die
Usage: I die, am dying, am dead.
Cognate: 2348 thnḗskō (the root of thanatos, "death") – to die (spiritually or physically); subject to death.



Romans 6:23
The for wages of sin DEATH
but the gift of God life eternal in Christ Jesus the Lord of us.


I have yet to see anyone put forth THE VERSE FOR THEIR BELIEF THAT WOULD GO SOMETHING LIKE
"THE WAGES OF SIN IS ETERNAL CONSCIOUS TORMENT"



We know that BEING KILLED and BEING TORMENTED are two different things.
Revelation 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.


615 apokteinó or apoktennó - to kill
Usage: I put to death, kill; fig: I abolish.

 

[kleronomos]

How many times has this thread come around full circle??

Quite a few I guess.

ALL it takes for FALSE DOCTRINE TO PREVAIL is for WHAT IS WRITTEN to not be put forth.

 

[peldom10]

Quite a few I guess.

ALL it takes for FALSE DOCTRINE TO PREVAIL is for WHAT IS WRITTEN to not be put forth.

New age religion distortions ..........of God's word is constantly growing.

 

[Runningman]

FreeGrace2 said:
I NEVER CALLED either of you a "crying drunk". That's what you 2 made up. I explained how I used that word WAY BEFORE either of you find your own dictionary.

Claiming ECT to be CRUEL is being over emotional, which is how I am using "maudlin". I really don't care how you want to use it, I already made myself clear about how I am using it, so all your blubbering about a "crying drunk" is purely your own nonsense.

Not in the dictionary (on-line) I checked.


Since I explained HOW I meant the word, and you just won't accept my explanation, I have nothing to admit.


Please go preach to someone else. I'm getting tired of your whining about maudlin.

You have proven your ability to get stuck on a singular idea. Like your obsession with KJV Rev 20:10, just because it doesn't have "they".

And you have obsessed over a dictionary that links maudlin to a drunk. Get.over.it.

New International Version
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

New Living Translation
Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

English Standard Version
and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Berean Study Bible
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

New American Standard Bible
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


Holman Christian Standard Bible
The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

International Standard Version
and the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were. They will be tortured day and night forever and ever.

NET Bible
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are too, and they will be tormented there day and night forever and ever.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And their Seducer, The Devil, was cast into The Lake of Fire and Brimstone where The Beast and The False Prophet are, and they shall be tormented day and night for the eternity of eternities.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were also thrown. They will be tortured day and night forever and ever.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

American Standard Version
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Darby Bible Translation
And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] both the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for the ages of ages.

English Revised Version
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Webster's Bible Translation
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. {this verse doesn't have "they" but it is clear the beast and FP are STILL THERE}

Weymouth New Testament
and the Devil, who had been leading them astray, was thrown into the Lake of fire and sulphur where the Wild Beast and the false Prophet were, and day and night they will suffer torture until the Ages of the Ages.

World English Bible
The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Young's Literal Translation
and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.

And you only quote the KJV? 17 translations have "they". 1 makes clear that the beast and FP are STiLL THERE. After 1,000 years.

Prove that a body will last even for a few hours in the fire. Right.

No one cares. If you’re in a thread and arguing we can almost guarantee it’ll go for years. I just reply to you to keep this thread going. No one is reading your long-winded comments riddled with strife, screaming, and ad hominems.

 

[kleronomos]

Hosea 14:1 O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.

Hosea 14:2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Hosea 14:3 Asshur shall not save us; we will not ride upon horses: neither will we say any more to the work of our hands, Ye are our gods: for in thee the fatherless findeth mercy.

Hosea 14:4 I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.

Hosea 14:5 I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon.

Hosea 14:6 His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree, and his smell as Lebanon.

Hosea 14:7 They that dwell under his shadow shall return; they shall revive as the corn, and grow as the vine: the scent thereof shall be as the wine of Lebanon.

Hosea 14:8 Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found.

Hosea 14:9 Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the LORD are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.

 

[Magenta]

New age religion distortions ..........of God's word is constantly growing.

Not sure how new age Augustine is, though there is nothing new under the sun, after all.

Good ol' Augustine. He developed a number of Roman Catholic heresies. Immortality of the soul was one of them.

Anyone who adheres to ECT walks in the footsteps of such heretical teachings.

 

[kleronomos]

Zephaniah 3:5 The just LORD is in the midst thereof; he will not do iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame.

Zephaniah 3:6 I have cut off the nations: their towers are desolate; I made their streets waste, that none passeth by: their cities are destroyed, so that there is no man, that there is none inhabitant.

Zephaniah 3:7 I said, Surely thou wilt fear me, thou wilt receive instruction; so their dwelling should not be cut off, howsoever I punished them: but they rose early, and corrupted all their doings.

Zephaniah 3:8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.

Zephaniah 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

Zephaniah 3:10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.

Zephaniah 3:11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.

Zephaniah 3:12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.

Zephaniah 3:13 The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

Zephaniah 3:14 Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.

Zephaniah 3:15 The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.

Zephaniah 3:16 In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack.

Zephaniah 3:17 The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

Zephaniah 3:18 I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, who are of thee, to whom the reproach of it was a burden.

Zephaniah 3:19 Behold, at that time I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame.

Zephaniah 3:20 At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the LORD.


We can just THANK THE LORD ABOVE THAT HE IS AWARE OF THE SORROW, and those who are the cause of it. Those who continuously mock it like it is something to be ashamed of, something to be pointed at and ridiculed. All we need do is remember VENGEANCE belongs to God.

 

[kleronomos]

Not sure how new age Augustine is, though there is nothing new under the sun, after all.

Good ol' Augustine. He developed a number of Roman Catholic heresies. Immortality of the soul was one of them.

Anyone who adheres to ECT follows in the footsteps of such heretical teachings.

Thank you. I had no idea what was meant by that reply.

 

[Runningman]

New age religion distortions ..........of God's word is constantly growing.

New Age is a misnomer. Actually the church itself is mostly wrong.

Can you imagine a scenario where the majority of the church is wrong? Or the religious establishment is wrong? This is a reoccurring theme in history. On this point the church is the blind leading the blind.

As always, God will send prophets to try to correct it, but the religious establishment will bend over backwards to reject them and maybe even flat out murder them if possible. I know for a fact that some people I debated would love to put my head on a stake.

Eventually Jesus will return and then there won’t be any discussion.

 

[Runningman]

How many times has this thread come around full circle??

It seems like it’s come around full circle at least 5-10 times leaning on the conservative side of the estimate. Jesus used repetition when He taught. I guess trying many angles may prove to be fruitful in the end. Then again Jesus knew when to walk away, too.

Whether someone is totally confused about ECT and doesn’t understand that the wicked perish is not a salvation problem though.

The problems that arise are people who presume to know what they’re taking about an blaspheme God in the process. Already seen it a number of times in this thread.

I think God understands His children’s heart, though. They may get it wrong a million times, but they didn’t stop trying. I think that’s just grace.