A golden key to understand the book of Revelations

[lamad]

I can't think of anyone who made the claim that Jews are forever cut off (there are very explicit lines about being grafted back in). The simple truth is that none come to the Father except through Christ.

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." - Romans 9:6-8 KJV

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. [...] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Galatians 3:16&29 KJV

"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them [Israelites by flesh] which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they [Israelites by flesh] also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again." - Romans 11:22-23 KJV

The children of the promise are counted for the seed. The seed of the promise is Christ and those in Christ. Both Gentiles and Jews were to be brought into Christ if they do not not abide in unbelief. "All Israel will be saved" means all those in Christ will be saved. The remnant of Israel to be saved is the remnant that is in Christ. The remnant of Israel in Christ is all Israel.

Paul chooses very particular wording when speaking of blindness given to Israelites that may be grafted back in. In a sense he is reflecting on his own life as Saul, when he persecuted Christians (and in turn Christ). Ultimately Christ showed mercy by a personal revelation that left Paul blind and through that he realized he had truly been blind all along. Both the spiritual and physical blindness lifted and he rose as one in Christ. It is likely that he is relating his experience to other then-antiChrist Israelites that may also experience Christ shine through their blindness, and if they do not abide in unbelief they too will become Christian and find salvation. Paul's sentiment appears to be that everyone will get a chance at salvation, and only by the mercy of God, not by works or birthright. An enemy of today may turn out to be a brother in Christ tomorrow, as was the case with Paul's own life.

Not all Jews/Israelites are saved. And the fullness of the Gentiles coming in does not necessarily mean that "100% of the saved nonIsraelite individuals throughout history must be incorporated before any Jews can be grafted back in". It means that through the blindness of Israelites, the fullness of Gentiles were brought into the fold per circumstance. Paul was only blind until such a time, and through the time of his particular blindness others would be drawn into the faith in the fullness of that circumstance (perhaps including after the blindness was lifted). The undertone in Romans 11:23 is that once blindness is lifted, not all of Israel would turn to Christ (and instead abide in unbelief). And those that did not turn to Christ would not be grafted into the tree.

It is a false doctrine to claim that the promise to Israel is different or separate to the promise given to Christ and those in Christ. The remnant of Israel that inherits the promise is the remnant of Israel in Christ. But for the sake of trying to rationalize the other side of the coin, one may argue using Romans 12:4 that different parts of the body of Christ hold different offices based on faith, and thus perhaps specific saved descendants of Israel have a specific office or offices. Granted. But we should also remember that it was a Gentile had greater faith than all of Israel in the time of Christ, before the crucifixion (Matthew 8:10). The division of offices may not be so clear cut.

As much as the blindness of Israelites may be lifted, seemingly so too this is true of Gentiles, particularly as seen in Acts. If your interpretation of rapture is that the last of the NonChristian Jews remain to witness the second coming of Christ and become converted, why would this necessarily exclusive to NonChristian Jews and not also include NonChristian Gentiles that convert and therefore rule as well at that time?

What leads you to assume your specific interpretation of rapture and the 1000 year kingdom?

It is a false doctrine to claim that the promise to Israel is different or separate to the promise given to Christ and those in Christ.

I would only add that there is certainly a difference in OUTCOME of those Jews who accept Jesus now and become part of the body of Christ on earth - to be raptured - versus those that only turn to Jesus after they SEE Him. They remain in flesh and blood bodies and are allowed entrance into the millennial reign of Christ. Those that are raptured will be judges then.

 

[lamad]

YES AMEN - When the LORD comes back - at His Second Coming.

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” Matt 23


away with false doctrine and the spririt of error that speaks what God never said.

The LORD said there will be no rapture BEFORE the Resurrection = 1 Thessalonins 4:13-18 , Matthew ch24, 1 Corinthians ch15

When will you ever get things straight in your mind? If there is a "spirit of error" it runs rampant through your posts. Will you have to experience it all first? Will you have to arrive in heaven before you get this right?

OF COURSE the dead in Christ rise first - no one has ever said otherwise. Paul made that part very clear.

Whenever anyone tries to connect the Matthew 24 gathering with 1 Thes 4, that is error. Paul's gathering is before wrath while the Matthew 24 gathering is after wrath, and I might add, never the twain shall meet. They will end up being separated by 7 years.

You keep avoiding questions. I can only guess its because you have no answer.

WHICH of the two resurrections written in Revelation was Jesus' resurrection a part of? Since there are always and forever only two, which one will you choose for Jesus?

 

[lamad]

i never cursed anyone and that is very wrong of you to say that

God's word is not a christian Monopoly game.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

Since when do we as 'christians' disregard these commands? Who gave us the OK to do so?

Who gave YOU the right to judge if someone is adding or taking away?
Who gave YOU the right to call everyone that does not agree with you a liar?

("Judge not that ye be not judged")

 

[lamad]

[


“They came out of the Great Tribulation - these are the Saints who have died in the Lord”

amen from the time of the gospel forward they are being gathered

Question: which would be the biggest number: those believers who are martyred or those believers who are NOT martyred?

 

[lamad]

yeah the rest of the book shows the churches battle on earth with Satan and the beast

No. Saints with the Beast? Yes, but according to chapter 12, ONLY A REMNANT left. Why? Because the pretrib rapture pulled the main group out before wrath.

 

[lamad]

The Parable of the Ten Virgins is a Parable - the 5 wise virgins are symbolic and are not literal bridal attendants.
Most completely miss what the Lord is saying in the Matthew 25:1-13 Parable.

It has to do with the Kingdom of God = Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgin = Parable.

The Kingdom of Heaven - do you know what it is?

The Parable tells us = 5 wise have been filled with the Holy Spirit which is the Oil in the Parable.

The HOLY SPIRIT is the Kingdom of Heaven - God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship in Spirit and Truth.

The Holy Spirit is the Kingdom our LORD gave to us while He went to the Father.

When the LORD returns He will only receive those who have His Holy Spirit = Like Begets Like

The Gospel of John and the Book of Acts demonstrates this vividly.

You have a huge problem: in your theory, "when the LORD returns" is after the wedding. It does not fit.

 

[ResidentAlien]

But John see the whole church in heaven an innumerable multitude and he is told "these are they who have come out of great tribulation" since they are in heaven they must have been raptured.

I agree they were raptured, but not in Revelation 4:1-2. That idea is hopelessly flawed and the fact that so many people subscribe to it really amazes me.

What problem do you have with the idea that they were raptured in chapter 7? Why isn't that possible in your view?

 

[ResidentAlien]

I don't believe in a pre trib rapture ...seems like you you curse everyone who disagrees with you.

If I understand, you believe the tribulation is before Revelation 4, and the rapture is in Revelation 4:1-2. So in that sense you believe in a "post-tribulation" rapture. Is that correct or have I misunderstood you?

 

[DavidTree]

When will you ever get things straight in your mind? If there is a "spirit of error" it runs rampant through your posts. Will you have to experience it all first? Will you have to arrive in heaven before you get this right?

OF COURSE the dead in Christ rise first - no one has ever said otherwise. Paul made that part very clear.

Whenever anyone tries to connect the Matthew 24 gathering with 1 Thes 4, that is error. Paul's gathering is before wrath while the Matthew 24 gathering is after wrath, and I might add, never the twain shall meet. They will end up being separated by 7 years.

You keep avoiding questions. I can only guess its because you have no answer.

WHICH of the two resurrections written in Revelation was Jesus' resurrection a part of? Since there are always and forever only two, which one will you choose for Jesus?

You all said the rapture is before the Resurrection, man times over, claiming multiple Comings of the LORD.

Matthew ch24 is AFTER Tribulation and BEFORE the wrath of the Lamb
1 Thess 4:13-18 is AFTER Tribulation and BEFORE the wrath of the Lamb
2 Thess ch2 is AFTER Tribulation and BEFORE the wrath of the Lamb
1 John 2:18-19 is AFTER Tribulation and BEFORE the wrath of the Lamb
NOAH is AFTER Tribulation and BEFORE the wrath of God
Daniel prophesies/visions of the Great Tribulation, lives and dies in Tribulation with the Promise of the Resurrection = Chapter 12
Job lives and dies(figuratively) in Tribulation and His Redeemer Lives and shows up at the End of his Tribulation - just as ALL Scripture proclaims.
James ch5 points to Job's suffering great tribulation BEFORE the LORD's Coming, for us to prepare for and expect.

No one can bring forth 'pre-trib rapture' from Scripture - you all had 3 months to find it and could not. We are patiently waiting.

Straight is the Path that leads to Life = Deuteronomy 4:1-2, Proverbs 30:5-6 , Revelation 22:18-19

You all that hold the error of pre-trib in your heart have erred from the Straight Path.

Everyday i open the Scripture i am richly rewarded with the Truth = without adding to God's words

 

[DavidTree]

I agree they were raptured, but not in Revelation 4:1-2. That idea is hopelessly flawed and the fact that so many people subscribe to it really amazes me.

What problem do you have with the idea that they were raptured in chapter 7? Why isn't that possible in your view?

Good Morning, Why do you think there is a rapture in Rev ch7 ?

 

[iTheophilus]

You are mixing up to events that John did not mix. Let's talk about chapter 7. Why did John break from his narrative of the seals between the 6th and 7th?

@lamad Please provide me with the scripture passage you're talking about. Thanks.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No. Saints with the Beast? Yes, but according to chapter 12, ONLY A REMNANT left. Why? Because the pretrib rapture pulled the main group out before wrath.

there’s no pre tribulation rapture that’s been rolled over about a thousand times on this forum all It ever comes down to is people refusing to accept scripture because they already believe something.

the church in chapter 12 is seen here

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and it’s this war they and we are in

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this war

“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:11-12‬ ‭

tribulations happen in this world while we’re here it’s part of the world because it’s a dark and wicked place where Christians don’t fit in tribulations for Christians comes because

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19

some people will suffer great and terrible tribulations like the early church all did being slaughtered by Rome for about three hundred years

other people suffer varying degrees of it as time rolls on there have been many many mass persecutions of Christians even today it continues people
Killed and terrorized across the globe for thier faith

this world is going to hold tribulations and trials and struggles and hardship and sorrows to Christians because e world is full Of evil and we are full of Jesus

I think of your looking for the timing of a rapture you should consider the end of the world when Jesus returns from heaven.

but honestly if you believe in a pre trib rapture that’s part of your own faith , and mine tells me there is no pre tribulation rapture. And this subject no one ever changes thier thoughts about it seems
Like so I try to avoid the subject mostly because it creates arguments and conflict

I’ve participated in a few rapture debates here so I’m sort of burned out quoting scripture about it because something about the subject seems to be solid whether one believes in a pre trib rapture or doesn’t .

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Question: which would be the biggest number: those believers who are martyred or those believers who are NOT martyred?

not really sure what your asking , but every believer who enters the kingdom has been through life on earth and died in the flesh whether martyred or killed some Other way accident old age ect

none of them were Magically and secretly lifted up to heaven so they didn’t have to go through the world and make the choice of holding on to God even when trouble Comes like everyone else

the people shown in heaven both those of the tribes of isreal and The Gentiles of all nations shown have gone through the world heard the gospel and believed so when they die they are given an entrance into the kingdom of heaven they got there because they all
Died in the lord and not in their sins

“And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to come out of the tribulation is to
Pass through our lives in the world and hold on to faith in Jesus through whatever comes along whether a great persecution or the ones that grind daily on Christians in the world the smaller things that cause suffering

the only people who aren’t going to actually die and be “ raptured “ will be whoever is still believing when Jesus returns

“For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so if your looking for a rapture wait until you see Jesus coming in the sky then there will be one for those still alive and remaining in faith

 

[walknlight]

No. Saints with the Beast? Yes, but according to chapter 12, ONLY A REMNANT left. Why? Because the pretrib rapture pulled the main group out before wrath.

there’s no pre tribulation rapture that’s been rolled over about a thousand times on this forum all It ever comes down to is people refusing to accept scripture because they already believe something.
the church in chapter 12 is seen here
“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Evmur]

If I understand, you believe the tribulation is before Revelation 4, and the rapture is in Revelation 4:1-2. So in that sense you believe in a "post-tribulation" rapture. Is that correct or have I misunderstood you?

The church is there in that innumerable crowd it doesn't say how they got there, I think they are martyred rather than raptured. I do believe the most of the church in the last times will be martyred ... the church is simply not ready for the great end times persecution aka the great tribulation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

the remaining remnant is those surviving from Jerusalem’s destruction they are the ones who spread the gospel and create the church most of Jerusalem’s people were slaughtered or fled but God always was saying he would save a remnant from the destruction of Jerusalem and send them out into all nations witnessing the gospel

it says remnant because of what prophecy established

“For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the Lord of hosts shall do this.”
‭‭2 Kings‬ ‭19:31‬ ‭

those who survived the siege of Jerusalem were then dispersed into the nations carrying the gospel and those who believed thoer message became the church

a remnant of believing Jews would be sent from Jerusalem carrying the gospel that creates the church

“And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭2:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭8:16, 18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Those early believers that survived the slaughter of Jerusalem were scattered across the globe carrying the curse of the law and the blessing of the gospel and that’s how it spread into the world . The remnant of believers shown there in revelation

 

[Evmur]

Hello, brother @Evmur

It is written in Revelation ch. 7 that people of all nations, tongues, kindreds and people will be saved during the great tribulation:

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" - Revelation 7:9-10

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?" And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. - Revelation 7:13-14

Those vast crowds of people will be saved throughout the tribulation because the 144,000 elect will seal them in their foreheads with the Word of God at that time. Notice in chapter 9:3-5:

Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads. And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. - Revelation 9:3-5

**notice the 5-month period!

Once again you do not distinguish the great tribulation from the wrath of God. Actually it says "these have come out of great tribulation" The ARV says the great tribulation. I believe they are martyrs.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The church is there in that innumerable crowd it doesn't say how they got there, I think they are martyred rather than raptured. I do believe the most of the church in the last times will be martyred ... the church is simply not ready for the great end times persecution aka the great tribulation.

Amen they died as believers whether martyred or else wise so they went to be with Jesus like he promised

if we reject him we can’t go with him when we die

“Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:21, 23-24‬ ‭

if we don’t have remission of sins we die in sin but if we have remission of sins , we die as if we have no sin and can enter into the kingdom

whether we accept Jesus changes what happens when we die to our living soul.

remission of sins is why it says thier robes were washed and made white

“And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they came out of the world having remission of their sins because of Jesus and rehire belief . they are believers from the nations the gospel was sent out to that believed and those of Israel shown just before then are Israelites who believed . And so they entered into Christs kingdom after death .

“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Evmur]

I can't think of anyone who made the claim that Jews are forever cut off (there are very explicit lines about being grafted back in). The simple truth is that none come to the Father except through Christ.

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." - Romans 9:6-8 KJV

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. [...] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Galatians 3:16&29 KJV

"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them [Israelites by flesh] which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they [Israelites by flesh] also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again." - Romans 11:22-23 KJV

The children of the promise are counted for the seed. The seed of the promise is Christ and those in Christ. Both Gentiles and Jews were to be brought into Christ if they do not not abide in unbelief. "All Israel will be saved" means all those in Christ will be saved. The remnant of Israel to be saved is the remnant that is in Christ. The remnant of Israel in Christ is all Israel.

Paul chooses very particular wording when speaking of blindness given to Israelites that may be grafted back in. In a sense he is reflecting on his own life as Saul, when he persecuted Christians (and in turn Christ). Ultimately Christ showed mercy by a personal revelation that left Paul blind and through that he realized he had truly been blind all along. Both the spiritual and physical blindness lifted and he rose as one in Christ. It is likely that he is relating his experience to other then-antiChrist Israelites that may also experience Christ shine through their blindness, and if they do not abide in unbelief they too will become Christian and find salvation. Paul's sentiment appears to be that everyone will get a chance at salvation, and only by the mercy of God, not by works or birthright. An enemy of today may turn out to be a brother in Christ tomorrow, as was the case with Paul's own life.

Not all Jews/Israelites are saved. And the fullness of the Gentiles coming in does not necessarily mean that "100% of the saved nonIsraelite individuals throughout history must be incorporated before any Jews can be grafted back in". It means that through the blindness of Israelites, the fullness of Gentiles were brought into the fold per circumstance. Paul was only blind until such a time, and through the time of his particular blindness others would be drawn into the faith in the fullness of that circumstance (perhaps including after the blindness was lifted). The undertone in Romans 11:23 is that once blindness is lifted, not all of Israel would turn to Christ (and instead abide in unbelief). And those that did not turn to Christ would not be grafted into the tree.

It is a false doctrine to claim that the promise to Israel is different or separate to the promise given to Christ and those in Christ. The remnant of Israel that inherits the promise is the remnant of Israel in Christ. But for the sake of trying to rationalize the other side of the coin, one may argue using Romans 12:4 that different parts of the body of Christ hold different offices based on faith, and thus perhaps specific saved descendants of Israel have a specific office or offices. Granted. But we should also remember that it was a Gentile had greater faith than all of Israel in the time of Christ, before the crucifixion (Matthew 8:10). The division of offices may not be so clear cut.

As much as the blindness of Israelites may be lifted, seemingly so too this is true of Gentiles, particularly as seen in Acts. If your interpretation of rapture is that the last of the NonChristian Jews remain to witness the second coming of Christ and become converted, why would this necessarily exclusive to NonChristian Jews and not also include NonChristian Gentiles that convert and therefore rule as well at that time?

What leads you to assume your specific interpretation of rapture and the 1000 year kingdom?

That there is a resurrection of the righteous [those in Christ] is plain in 1.Corinthians and 1 and 2 Thess. Paul does not speak about any general resurrection except he says in 1 Corinthians 15 "THEN comes the end ...

... when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father AFTER destroying every rule and every authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet, the last enemy to be defeated is death"

You have to read this scripture carefully to perceive that the reign precedes the "then comes the end"

John speaks about two resurrections "happy and blest are those who partake in the first resurrection" Johns two resurrections are 1,000 years apart.

Now concerning Israel I have to tell folks something they have not heard before. God does not deal with Israel, the Jews, individually but as a nation. Who is Israel which is God's beloved? is it not the same Israel which are the enemies of the gospel for our sake?"

It is according to ELECTION, not a popular doctrine in some quarters.

They are enemies of the gospel for our sakes it was not the obedient Israel through whom you and I owe our salvation to but the disobedient. They are the ones who delivered our Lord up to be crucified for us. If they had not failed we could not be saved.

This is what ELECTION does, they were elected before they did right or wrong, before they accepted or rejected Christ. They were elected in the foreknowledge they would reject Christ.

God's call and gifts are without repentance.

Zechariah 12 and 13 goes into considerable detail concerning the rebirth of Israel as a nation.

They will look upon Him whom they have pierced and mourn for Him as for an only child and weep bitterly over Him as one weeps over a firstborn.

verse 12
The land shall mourn, each family by itself 14 and all the families that are left shall mourn. each by itself and their wives by themselves.

Chapter 13.
On that day there there shall be a fountain opened for the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to cleanse them from the sins and uncleaness.

 

[Evmur]

YES AMEN - When the LORD comes back - at His Second Coming.

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” Matt 23


away with false doctrine and the spririt of error that speaks what God never said.

The LORD said there will be no rapture BEFORE the Resurrection = 1 Thessalonins 4:13-18 , Matthew ch24, 1 Corinthians ch15

You are not the Pope ... if you ever achieve infallibility let me know.