A golden key to understand the book of Revelations

[DavidTree]

I think I will let the Scriptures have the last word.

2 Timothy 4:2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Can't wait till babylon falls!

SOUND TRUE Doctrine = 2 Thess ch2 , 1 Timothy 4:1 , 2 John 2:18-19 , Matthew ch24 ,

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
They went out/departed from us(faith in Christ), but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us;
but they went out/departed that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
2 John 2:18-19

the LORD Jesus Christ says: "At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another," - Matthew 24:10

Those who reject sound doctrine of CHRIST and the Apostles will 'add words to them and take away from them'.

This is how a person can examine themselves to see if they are in the Faith once delivered to the Saints.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Anyone who adds pre-trib rapture to Scripture is lying.

Since the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is NOT an addition to Scripture but an integral doctrine of Scripture, you have again made this false accusation against hundreds of thousands of Christians (including the apostles). Which makes you a serious liar.

 

[DavidTree]

Since the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is NOT an addition to Scripture but an integral doctrine of Scripture, you have again made this false accusation against hundreds of thousands of Christians (including the apostles). Which makes you a serious liar.

You always say this but never have any Scriptural Truth to stand on - which makes you a false witness.

PROVE your accusations against me - or stand in judgment before the LORD.

You have had 3 months to do this but all you do is stamp your feet.

You fill yourself with hate because i stand on God's words without adding or taking away.

God tells us to love one another, which i do here by turning your attention to what God said and away from the twisting of the serpent.

 

[Rondonmon]

he's being shown what will happen after the Rapture. MYTH.
In revelation the rapture cannot and will not take place until the final church age martyr (5th seal) is killed. But it has to happen before the 6th seal start of God's wrath. It was not mistake then that John SAW the raptured church in heaven as that great crowd too large to number, and wrote of it in the next chapter.

Look, you n=belive the Seals were started being open 2000 years ago, I told you I know who you are, and I don't take this stuff seriously.

 

[Nehemiah6]

But in every iteration of Jews and the church being separate entities I have never seen evidence to substantiate that segregation. In fact, the opposite is evident in scripture "neither Jew nor Gentile". Who counts as a Jew? Who counts as the church? What if one is from both groups?

Actually Romans 11 itself should suffice to show you that God has an eternal plan and purpose for the Church, and alongside that an eternal plan and purpose for redeemed and restored Israel on earth AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. Those who are from the twelve tribes of Israel are called "Jacob", and the Church consists of all redeemed Jews and Gentiles during the Church Age (which will terminate with the Resurrection/Rapture).

So let's look at that passage in Romans 11 (and there are scores of passages to support this).
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You always say this but never have any Scriptural Truth to stand on - which makes you a false witness.

I have supplied you with Scripture many times, just to have the passages ignored. Which again makes you a false witness.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

SOUND TRUE Doctrine = 2 Thess ch2 , 1 Timothy 4:1 , 2 John 2:18-19 , Matthew ch24 ,

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
They went out/departed from us(faith in Christ), but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us;
but they went out/departed that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
2 John 2:18-19

the LORD Jesus Christ says: "At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another," - Matthew 24:10

Those who reject sound doctrine of CHRIST and the Apostles will 'add words to them and take away from them'.

This is how a person can examine themselves to see if they are in the Faith once delivered to the Saints.

Thank you for the wonderful verses. I will certainly commit them to heart.
Bless you and keep up the Good fight.

 

[DavidTree]

I have supplied you with Scripture many times, just to have the passages ignored. Which again makes you a false witness.

You only have provided John 14

“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

There is no pre-trib rapture of His Bride/His Elect/His Saints here - none.

You are 'adding to Christ's words' of a rapture HE never said.
Christ fulfilled His word in John 14 to them and we see this in John ch20 after His resurrection.

Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”

Christ went to the Father and placed His Blood on the Mercy Seat so that a Place can be prepared for us.

the LORD said this in His Prayer to the Father - John ch17

I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. - John 17

This has been fulfilled by the LORD to us = the FATHER's House is Christ and His Body = the Temple of God.

Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13And after they had [c]become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the [d]Lord who does all these things.’

18[e]“Known to God from eternity are all His works.

In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

You Brother Nehemiah6 are the 'mansion' and the 'dwelling place of God' if the Spirit of God dwells in you.

 

[DavidTree]

Thank you for the wonderful verses. I will certainly commit them to heart.
Bless you and keep up the Good fight.

Thank You
Please keep me in your prayers - it is not easy going against the flow of religion.

 

[DavidTree]

The Jews count as Jews. The church is NEITHER Jew or Gentile.

The church is not promised the earth for an inheritance that is promised to Abraham and his seed from his loins ... but Abraham did not receive the promised inheritance but by believing showed he was looking for a better, a heavenly, home. Abraham was church.

The Jew who is not part of the Body of Christ is not saved and can never be found or seen in Revelation.

Separating the Jew from the Gentile in Christ is sin and is against the Gospel.

This CLEAR Scripture proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt this Truth:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say,
‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
Matt 23:37

Since this will not occur until His Second Coming - a Jewish Bride of Christ in Revelation according to the flesh of Abraham is a lie.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You only have provided John 14: “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know.” There is no pre-trib rapture of His Bride/His Elect/His Saints here - none.

John 14:1-3 should suffice for all those who take Christ at His word. So let's review what He said step-by-step:

Let not your heart be troubled:
Note: This is where Christ could have said "Let your hearts be troubled, because you all will go through the Tribulation". But He said the EXACT OPPOSITE to refute the naysayers. This in itself is sufficient to establish a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Note: Christ is establishing here that He Himself is God. Therefore every word must be accepted without question as true.

In my Father's house...
Note: God the Father is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. His "house" or dwelling place is in Heaven (the third Heaven in which is God's throne, the New Jerusalem and Paradise).

...are many mansions:
Note: Mansions are elaborate and beautiful dwelling places. Not tiny rooms. The New Jerusalem is a cubic city which is 1,500 cubic miles in dimension! There is more than enough room in that city for countless million mansions. And God has appointed a dwelling place in Heaven for each one of His children, along with an eternal inheritance for each one of His heirs.

if it were not so, I would have told you.
Note: Christ is telling us that this is factual, and real. This is not fantasy, and if this were not true, He would not have mentioned it. Therefore we are to believe Him completely. Why? Because He is God as noted above.

I go to prepare a place for you.
Note: This was stated just before the crucifixion of Christ. Jesus already knew that He would rise again, and after 40 days He would ascend back to the Father. He is now seated at the right hand of God the Father in Heaven. His coming for the Church has always been imminent.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again,
Note: This statement is the key to the Rapture. This is Christ's (God's) revelation to all the saints that Christ will come again for one specific purpose. This corresponds to "the Lord Himself shall descend".

and receive you unto myself;
Note: Christ does not send out His angels to gather the saints at the Resurrection/ Rapture. He comes PERSONALLY to receive them "unto Himself". This is all detailed in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (although the resurrection is not mentioned at this point).

that where I am, there ye may be also.
Note: This statement is specifically for the naysayers who deny that Christians will go to Heaven. Where is Christ right now? In Heaven. Where will He take all the saints at the Resurrection/Rapture? To Heaven. Why will He take them to Heaven? So that they will be present as the Bride of Christ at the Marriage of the Lamb, and BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ with His saints and angels.

In view of this, no one should ever question the doctrine of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. And there are hundreds of thousands of Christians who believe this is sound Bible doctrine. Therefore all attacks on this are from Satan.

 

[DavidTree]

John 14:1-3 should suffice for all those who take Christ at His word. So let's review what He said step-by-step:

Let not your heart be troubled:
Note: This is where Christ could have said "Let your hearts be troubled, because you all will go through the Tribulation". But He said the EXACT OPPOSITE to refute the naysayers. This in itself is sufficient to establish a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Note: Christ is establishing here that He Himself is God. Therefore every word must be accepted without question as true.

In my Father's house...
Note: God the Father is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. His "house" or dwelling place is in Heaven (the third Heaven in which is God's throne, the New Jerusalem and Paradise).

...are many mansions:
Note: Mansions are elaborate and beautiful dwelling places. Not tiny rooms. The New Jerusalem is a cubic city which is 1,500 cubic miles in dimension! There is more than enough room in that city for countless million mansions. And God has appointed a dwelling place in Heaven for each one of His children, along with an eternal inheritance for each one of His heirs.

if it were not so, I would have told you.
Note: Christ is telling us that this is factual, and real. This is not fantasy, and if this were not true, He would not have mentioned it. Therefore we are to believe Him completely. Why? Because He is God as noted above.

I go to prepare a place for you.
Note: This was stated just before the crucifixion of Christ. Jesus already knew that He would rise again, and after 40 days He would ascend back to the Father. He is now seated at the right hand of God the Father in Heaven. His coming for the Church has always been imminent.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again,
Note: This statement is the key to the Rapture. This is Christ's (God's) revelation to all the saints that Christ will come again for one specific purpose. This corresponds to "the Lord Himself shall descend".

and receive you unto myself;
Note: Christ does not send out His angels to gather the saints at the Resurrection/ Rapture. He comes PERSONALLY to receive them "unto Himself". This is all detailed in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (although the resurrection is not mentioned at this point).

that where I am, there ye may be also.
Note: This statement is specifically for the naysayers who deny that Christians will go to Heaven. Where is Christ right now? In Heaven. Where will He take all the saints at the Resurrection/Rapture? To Heaven. Why will He take them to Heaven? So that they will be present as the Bride of Christ at the Marriage of the Lamb, and BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ with His saints and angels.

In view of this, no one should ever question the doctrine of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. And there are hundreds of thousands of Christians who believe this is sound Bible doctrine. Therefore all attacks on this are from Satan.

Brother , we went thru this already - you are adding to Christ's words which is forbidden.

I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace.
In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!” John 16

All thruoghout Scripture - the Saints suffer Tribulation and CHRIST says it and you deny His words.

 

[DavidTree]

John 14:1-3 should suffice for all those who take Christ at His word. So let's review what He said step-by-step:

Let not your heart be troubled:
Note: This is where Christ could have said "Let your hearts be troubled, because you all will go through the Tribulation". But He said the EXACT OPPOSITE to refute the naysayers. This in itself is sufficient to establish a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Note: Christ is establishing here that He Himself is God. Therefore every word must be accepted without question as true.

In my Father's house...
Note: God the Father is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. His "house" or dwelling place is in Heaven (the third Heaven in which is God's throne, the New Jerusalem and Paradise).

...are many mansions:
Note: Mansions are elaborate and beautiful dwelling places. Not tiny rooms. The New Jerusalem is a cubic city which is 1,500 cubic miles in dimension! There is more than enough room in that city for countless million mansions. And God has appointed a dwelling place in Heaven for each one of His children, along with an eternal inheritance for each one of His heirs.

if it were not so, I would have told you.
Note: Christ is telling us that this is factual, and real. This is not fantasy, and if this were not true, He would not have mentioned it. Therefore we are to believe Him completely. Why? Because He is God as noted above.

I go to prepare a place for you.
Note: This was stated just before the crucifixion of Christ. Jesus already knew that He would rise again, and after 40 days He would ascend back to the Father. He is now seated at the right hand of God the Father in Heaven. His coming for the Church has always been imminent.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again,
Note: This statement is the key to the Rapture. This is Christ's (God's) revelation to all the saints that Christ will come again for one specific purpose. This corresponds to "the Lord Himself shall descend".

and receive you unto myself;
Note: Christ does not send out His angels to gather the saints at the Resurrection/ Rapture. He comes PERSONALLY to receive them "unto Himself". This is all detailed in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (although the resurrection is not mentioned at this point).

that where I am, there ye may be also.
Note: This statement is specifically for the naysayers who deny that Christians will go to Heaven. Where is Christ right now? In Heaven. Where will He take all the saints at the Resurrection/Rapture? To Heaven. Why will He take them to Heaven? So that they will be present as the Bride of Christ at the Marriage of the Lamb, and BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ with His saints and angels.

In view of this, no one should ever question the doctrine of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. And there are hundreds of thousands of Christians who believe this is sound Bible doctrine. Therefore all attacks on this are from Satan.

Brother , we went thru this already - you are adding to Christ's words which is forbidden.

I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace.
In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!” John 16

Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. Matt ch24

For you know that we are destined for this. Indeed, when we were with you, we kept warning you that we would suffer persecution; and as you know, it has come to pass. 1 Thess 3:1-5

I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. Rev 1:9

All throughout Scripture - the Saints suffer Tribulation and CHRIST says it and you deny His words and you add to them.

i am in Heaven now, as well - seated in Christ just as HE said in the Gospel of John.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:4-6

the FACT that the many of the Disciples and Apostles died in Tribulation and Persecution, as Millions/Billions of Saints have already, blows your error to pieces for Christ would of lied according to you.

The Prophets NOAH, DANIEL and JOB Testify against the lie of pre-trib rapture.
The Prophet Elijah testifies against the lie of pre-trib rapture.

pre-trib never came out of the mouth of God and you and the others force it into Scripture = SIN

Turn your heart to Christ that He may Sanctify you and refresh you with Truth = John 17

HE loves you and does not want you to stand in judgment for this.

 

[Evmur]

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. [...] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Galatians 3:16&29 KJV

The concept you present is not scripturally sound.

We never dreamed that the Jews would inherit anything apart from Christ ... they are to be converted.

If Paul's teaching in Galatians were the only teachings of his on the subject of the Jews we might well conclude [as many have] that the Jews are indeed forever cut off and must perish. But Galatians is not Paul's only word.

We read him to say in Romans 11 "so I ask have [the Jews] stumbled so as to fall? God forbid but through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles ... now if their trespass means riches for the world and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their FULL inclusion mean?"

... and so all Israel will be saved.

What "all" may mean we can debate but certainly God is not finished with the Jews.

 

[Evmur]

The Jew who is not part of the Body of Christ is not saved and can never be found or seen in Revelation.

Separating the Jew from the Gentile in Christ is sin and is against the Gospel.

This CLEAR Scripture proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt this Truth:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say,
‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
Matt 23:37

Since this will not occur until His Second Coming - a Jewish Bride of Christ in Revelation according to the flesh of Abraham is a lie.

Israel is to be saved

 

[Evmur]

But John see the whole church in heaven an innumerable multitude and he is told "these are they who have come out of great tribulation" since they are in heaven they must have been raptured.

 

[Evmur]

The truth is, Paul TOLD US, but did it in a cloaked manner, perhaps so if his letter fell into Roman hands they would not understand. It seems he wrote it so only those who had his first letter would understand.

Did you notice how the earliest translations did verse 3?

1384 Wycliffe N.T.
That no man deceyue you in any maner / for no but departynge aweye (or dissencon) schal come firste & the man of synne schall be schewid [shewed] the sone of perdicioune.

1534 Tyndale N.T.
Let no ma deceave you by eny meanes for the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a departynge fyrst and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion

1535 Coverdale Bible
Let no man disceaue you by eny meanes. For the LORDE commeth not, excepte the departynge come first, and that Man of Synne be opened, even the sonne of perdicion.

1539 Cranmer Great Bible
Let no man deceaue you by any meanes, for the Lorde shall not come excepte there come a departinge fyrst, & that that synfull man be opened, the sonne of perdicion.

1549 Matthew's Bible
Let no man deceyue you by any meanes, for the Lord commeth not, except there come a departyng first, and that, that sinful man be opened, the sonne of perdicyon

1565 Beza Bible
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for [that day shall not come,] except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, [euen] the son of perdition.

1575 Geneva Bible
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes for that day shal not come, except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition.

Considering Paul's theme, the gathering (which will be departed from the earth as they are called up) which will be at His coming.

In short, the church is who is "taken out of the way" at this significant departing. It is the Holy Spirit, working through the church who is the restraining power. And it will be the power of the Holy Spirit that will empty the graves and catch us up.

Paul's argument is that this significant departing (the departing of the church) must come FIRST, then the man of sin will be revealed. And then, whoever sees these two events will have positive proof they are in the Day of the Lord - that it has already started.

Of course, some will say that it is the falling away (or the lack thereof before it happens) that is the restraining force. But if that were Paul's meaning, then where is his theme satisfied? (there can be no doubt the way Paul wrote this passage that the restraining force restraining, then taken out of the way has to be in that Greek word, Apostasia.

No cloaked manner.

Paul speak just as plainly as he can so that the Thessies would not be deceived in any manner whatever.

If departing in this instance meant the rapture you would have Paul saying

"The rapture will not come unless there has first come a rapture ..."

He says "that day shall not come unless there has come a rebellion and the man of rebellion be revealed, the son of perdition"

It is Darby's trick to change the meaning of apostasis to mean departure ... it was a lie, he knew it was a lie and so did everyone else, his teaching was thrown out by every theologian in Britain ... so he took it to America.

 

[Evmur]

Wrong. the church is the one who takes the gospel to the world as represented by the first seal. And the church is still on earth at the 5th seal, and member after member is picked off and made a martyr.

You can be sure of this: the rapture will certainly come before Jesus opens the 6th seal that starts the Day of His wrath.

The day of the Lord begins in the temple at His appearing ... He slays the man of sin. We will have gone to meet Him in the air.

So Jesu's coming is the END of Antichrist not his beginning, after he is slain in the temple there is no more persecution, no more mark of the Beast, no more tribulation for the church for we will have gone.

 

[Evmur]

John witnessed the souls/spirits of all Saints who have died in Christ - not one raptured Saint is in Revelation until chapters 19 -20.

The Golden KEY to Understanding
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

What? what about the great multitude which no man could number? they are the whole church.

 

[Evmur]

John witnessed the souls/spirits of all Saints who have died in Christ - not one raptured Saint is in Revelation until chapters 19 -20.

The Golden KEY to Understanding
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

away with your threats ... you are wrong concerning the innumerable multitude.