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@sawdust Jeremiah 15:19-21 Therefore thus says the LORD: "If you return, Then I will bring you back; You shall stand before Me; If you take out the precious from the vile, You shall be as My mouth. Let them return to you, But you must not return to them. And I will make you to this...

that's an interesting perspective , i understand what you're saying :unsure: reminds me of how He told Jeremiah, He would make him to this people a fortified bronze wall... remember how, speaking about the salvation that was to come, He told Israel He would remove their heart of stone and give...

The text does not support your interpretation.

why? i know you aren't a universalist, so you must agree His judgment is both necessary and righteous. Paul doesn't even dare to address this in Romans 9, saying "what if" He has created some vessels fit for destruction, not saying He has - urging only humility, saying who are we to answer back...

He wept, amen

my pastor has told us, and i have no disagreement with the statement, that all God has to do in order to harden someone's heart is to withdraw from them.

isn't that a bit like saying you agree God made water wet, you just don't agree that water is wet?

we are discussing Isaiah's thoughts. we are discussing God’s words. Isaiah 6:8-10 Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" He said, "Go and tell this people: 'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever...

seeing how at least 4 references to the Isaiah passage in the NT are interpreted, we should be able to discern the right interpretation of it, that's all.

i don't have a dog, but my cats don't struggle with God :)

no, you are projecting into me what you think must be the conclusion of the tearing down of your eisegwtical presuppositions. your objections are not taking into account what the scripture literally says: God indeed hardens hearts, closes eyes, shuts ears and gives a spirit of stupor. i am...

please have a look at how Christ and His apostles cited this text. Matthew 13:10-17, Mark 4:10-12, John 12:37-40, Acts 28:25-28, Romans 11:7-10

the horses in the ark were not there by their will, or even by Noah's, but by God's. Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

you misunderstand me. God does not fail. ever.

but that is not what God says here, at all. God says, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears...

You're still giving him an imperative: an imperative is an imperative, even if it has a qualifier. but in Isaiah there is no "if" you are not at all being persuasive; in fact, your position is looking weaker and weaker and weaker with every argument you try. to be expected, since, you are...

@studier i notice you questioned @GWH over his usage of the novel term 'omnilove' - - i looked over this, but it's a fair point. those who went before us recognize three 'omnis' concerning God: omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence. my reasoning was that i have no argument with 'God is...

my intuition -- thinking of what is good hermeneutic vs poor, yay, on thread topic hahaha - - is to immediately ask, do we see this behavior in the Bible, and then, if we do, collect every OT and NT reference together, lay them all out on the table like puzzle pieces, and start looking for...

a common addage among mankind - if you love someone, you have to let them go

if it was God's intention to enlighten them by speaking in intentionally obscure metaphors rather than clear speech, why did God fail to do so? is He not very good at communicating, or does He really not understand people's hearts?