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You do not have to be able to "see" something to believe it. Just take God at His Word in faith. “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,” 2 Timothy...

Various uses of the preposition "en", the word translated "in" Ephesians 1:4 G1722 is the reference number for the preposition "en" But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by G1722 heaven; for it is God's throne: Matthew 5:34 Are you spatially in heaven when you swear by (greek en)...

For example, when you ask for something 'IN JESUS NAME", does that mean that the thing you are requesting exists spatially or temporally inside of Jesus' name? Not at all.

The text does not say that we were in Christ before Adam. Neither does my theology. It says we were CHOSEN in Christ. Being chosen in Christ and being in Christ are two different things. You are confused because you don't understand or know how the preposition "en" (in) is used in the Bible...

καθὼς ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου εἶναι ἡμᾶς ἁγίους καὶ ἀμώμους κατενώπιον αὐτοῦ ἐν ἀγάπῃ 1:4 καθὼς Just as ἐξελέξατο He chose. the verb ἡμᾶς Us. The direct object. The object that the verb acts upon. He chose believers. People, not a plan or a set of things, but people. ἐν...

We are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God. Not that God foreknew and chose a plan, but that He foreknew and chose people, as stated by the fact that He chose US in Eph. 1;4. see also Romans 8:28-30

I agree with your understanding.

The things you listed are blessings referred to in Verse 3. Clearly salvation blessings. But the direct object of the choosing in verse 4 is not methods or things, it is people. God chose US in Him. It's also strange how people will say that the choosing is a vocational election, when as you...

Don't let the phrase "in Christ" confuse you. In greek, it is the preposition "en". Here are some of the various ways that the preposition en is used in the Bible. en into in, on, at, within besides, among in with, by means of because of with So chosen "in Christ" could mean chosen by means...

No foreknowledge is not the same as choosing. Ephesians 1:4 says God chose us, which means people. Also in Romans 8:28-30, God does not foreknow what’s He foreknows whos. We don’t need to exist for God to foreknow. I don’t have a lot of time right now, but more later.

The pronoun that is the direct object is US. He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world Who is us referring to? Believers, of course. You’re talking about God. You don’t need to exist for God to foreknow you or choose you. His knowledge is not limited or bound by time.

ForestGreenCook, the post above was not intended to be addressed to you. Sorry about that :oops:

Good conclusion.

Amen to that!!!!! The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. That’s kind of like John 1:1. Just because it says He existed in or from the beginning, does not negate His existence before the beginning. Fare you well.

Nice talking to you. I’m not going to try to beat this into people’s heads anymore. may bless you and all who are, have been, or will be reading these forums.

Yes, we were alienated from God and seperated from Him by our sins and as such were lost and condemned at that point IN TIME. But God, who is not limited by time nor is His knowledge and electing love conditioned by temporal matters, KNEW we would believe before we believed and chose us before...

If God’s nature is such that He would not Will to elect some to life and foreordain the rest to condemnation ARBITRARILY, it still does not follow that for God to know beforehand and to predestine a person beforehand based on that knowledge would also be contrary to His nature. For it would not...

Outside. He created time, so His knowledge and predestination is not limited by that either. God is not limited by ANYTHING, except His own Will and Nature, right?

so in Romans 8:30, if we can be glorified to such a degree from God’s perspective that it’s as good as done, though it’s not accomplished yet, why cant God know us and choose us in Christ based on foreknowledge, though we be not in Christ yet? The only difference is the element of a human...

But you said from God’s perspective we are as good as glorified in Romans 8:30. So changewhat I said from mind to perspective and think about it that way.