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I disagree with your definition of dead. I don’t know of a verse that says man is born hardened (please call it out if I missed it.) Man is not born with a hardened heart but can do this to himself over time. This can then make them fit Mark 4:12 description (seeing but never perceiving etc) but...

It’s no mystery. That is just a cope out to support a theology which scripture does not support. The bible states multiple times across those who believe will be saved. It does not save those select who believe. “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings...

Also how do you know for certain you’re really one of the chosen? What if you’re going through the motions? If it happened to Charles Templeton why can’t it happen to you? I’ve put myself conceptually and in thought on the other side. Have you? Imagine for a few minutes you’re “not chosen”...

Not true, there is no void. The bible is a story, it describes characters with traits. It does not support the traits of a God who creates and predestines, without any act, certain people to hell. This is a trait that Satan would have. Based on his description as told through the Bible. Satan...

He does not foreordain individuals for heaven or hell - scripture does not support this. Does he know who chooses since he is past/present/future, I think he does. He has given man free-will. Somehow this is mixed with his foresight. I can’t understand this but I also don’t get how he created...

Not true, my interpretation is consistent with the nature of God throughout the entire bible. He is love, patient, kind, merciful, righteous, peace, and more. Such a God does not create some humans and send them automatically to hell. In my opinion to say he does is to speak against his...

Please see my post #208 How I see it: Romans 9 is about Jewish people as a nation John 15 and Col 3 is about the entity Ephesians 1 is about the entity He chose us (the church as an entity) Bible is a story, spoken to individuals at times, groups at times, and entities at times. Romans 9 is to...

What did he chose? You’re saying individuals based on a lottery? (I’m assuming based on your interpretation of Romans 9?) - I see chose the church as an entity. Example I see: Plane leaves tomorrow, its destined for heaven. That is very different then saying the airline also picks the people...

How I see it: I see nations when I see Esau and Jacob written. Like you said people makeup a nation. The question is from, and directed by Paul to, be from a Jew who kept the Law. How are sovereignly purposed: People are not born hardened. We are made in His amazing image even in a fallen...

If you guys cant see Romans 9 as about Israel then I don't know what to say... the way you’re interpreting does not go with the rest of Romans and the bible. And Pharoah does do with Israel, he held them captive for 400 years. Paul would have talked about it in Romans 6 but he didnt becayse it...

How I read Romans 9 = The rules of the game were changed by God against what the Jews thougt. The Law would not save them. They had to believe in Jesus Christ, plus the Gentiles got the same God! God had changed it up with Esau (first born) and Jacob (Israel), both sons of Isaac and of Abrahams...

My 2 cents: when I have and read Romans 9 I see it as entirely about Israel. It starts with Israel and ends about Israel. Where does personal salvation come into play? :unsure: Paul says nothing about personal salvation, he is speaking to and about Israel. Re-read it as if its being directed to...

My office has many kind, honest people who are not Christians. Many donate their time to help the needy. Can this be said of every Christian?

I read more into Calvin and teachings of people like John Piper. Wow o_O Foundation of 1) fear and 2) misanthropy Keep up the good fight UnderGrace and Nehemiah6 and others - but I’m out; this forum has too many groups and life is too short! I love you all! :giggle: “Keep reminding God’s people...

Very contentious is an understatement haha You are correct; I was harsh and I apologize. I didn’t even know people thought like that before I read this thread. God bless you

That is not what I am saying; I disagree with those saying some are picked to NEVER get a choice/chance. Again I don’t know well the various groups of Christianity (Calvins, etc etc) - I know what I read/interpret/am fed with the Holy Spirit.

Agreed (y)

It’s sad that men have tried to put God in a box; as if His intellectual design could not account for a man/women choosing - or is somehow limited to time/space. We see everything linear; He does not. He already knows the choices you will make. He is looking down on to the whole picture. He has...

“Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.” ‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭NIV‬‬ https://www.bible.com/111/2ti.2.14.niv “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that...

Hi everyone, I came back to the Lord ~2 months ago. In the past 10-14 days I’ve been having some really weird thoughts from the enemy. I rebuke them and tell Satan he’s wasting his time/my faith will not waiver. Please join me in prayers to ask for victory over this Thank you!