Please help me to understand

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decipher said:
God Almighty can not be sent by anyone. If anyone is sent, He is the sender. Jesus was in heaven with the Father when he was sent by Him to become a man and die. Jesus kept on saying that he was sent by the Father to complete a mission. According to Jesus, his bread was to do the Father's will. It seems that there is someone in charge, and it's not Jesus.
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Jesus was prophesied in the Old Testament. His name there was, Immanuel,meaning, God with us.

Just as was prophesied to Mary by the angel in the New Testament when she was told she'd been chosen to bring the Messiah into this world.
You shall call his name Immanuel. Meaning,God with us.

Jesus was God with us here on Earth and delivering his new covenant good news.

In the Old testament we know this to be true. When God there says,besides him there is no Savior.
Isaiah 43:11
 
bytheblood said:
Jesus, right now, seated at the right hand of God the Father, is flesh. He went to heaven in flesh, the disciples SAW Him, Acts 1:11 " ... Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye here gazing up into heaven? THIS SAME JESUS, which is taken up from you INTO HEAVEN, shall so come IN LIKE MANNER AS YOU HAVE SEEN HIM GO INTO HEAVEN."
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The point of discussion should not be dueling proof-texts but rather harmonizing discrepancies.
I would harmonize 1Cor. 15:35-50 with Acts 1:11 by understanding that spiritual bodies are visible.
And you? Do you agree that Jesus was not made flesh until his birth per Phil. 2:5-8 (cf. Heb. 2:14-17)?
 
Lovette said:
I doubt it. The one and only rule of thumb that tells the true spirit from false spirits is Lord Jesus's humanity, not deity. When He was resurrected, He was resurrected in FLESH, and so will we when resurrected. A glorious body is still a fleshly body as long as the resurrection takes place on earth.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. (1 Jn. 4:1-4)
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Yes, Jesus was resurrected physically per John 20:27, but consider John 20:19 and what I just posted to bytheblood.
 
GWH said:
Yes, Jesus was resurrected physically per John 20:27, but consider John 20:19 and what I just posted to bytheblood.
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I do agree that Jesus was not made in flesh until his incarnation. The Word was God and with God in the beginning, but the Word did not become flesh in the beginning. Before his birth, after until his baptism, his ministry were like a blueprint, a finished product, a powered and activated product.
 
decipher said:
God Almighty can not be sent by anyone. If anyone is sent, He is the sender. Jesus was in heaven with the Father when he was sent by Him to become a man and die. Jesus kept on saying that he was sent by the Father to complete a mission. According to Jesus, his bread was to do the Father's will. It seems that there is someone in charge, and it's not Jesus.
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The Word became flesh.

The Word shared the glory with the Father.

The Word was Jesus.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

Jesus humbled Himself to becoming one of us and He stepped down from the throne to do that.

When He found Himself in the form of a man He further humbled Himself and endured the cross for you.
(Philippians 2:8)

But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then
comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule
and all authority and power. (1 Corinthians 15:23-24)

The Father handed everything over to the Son initially.

When Jesus reigns over everything and is Lord of all, He returns everything back to His Father.

They become one and so do we.
 
If God created the heavens and the earth out of nothing, then can't it be said that, if heaven and earth emerged out of anything, it came forth out of Him. Yet, God is not the heavens and the earth. Keeping that in mind, Jesus did not emerge out of nothing, and in that sense, He is not like the rest of us. In fact, Col 1:16.
 
PaulThomson said:
The Father is a name for Yahweh, the Divine Council of Divine Persons who create and sustain all things. The father of something is the one who is responsible for its coming into being. Since Jesus was the result of the Council of Divine Persons creating a zygote inside Mary, and placing the Divine Person of the Word in that zygote, the Divine Council is Jesus of Nazareth's Father. The Divine Council sent Jesus from heaven, since his entry into human form was a joint decision by all in the Divine Council, including Jesus. (We say that the government sends the Prime Minister to represent them in an international forum, because the government organises the logistics of getting him/her there and supplies the resources involved, even though the Head of State himself makes the final decision whether he will go.) The Head of State refers to "my government" even though he is included in "his government". Jesus calls the Divine Council "My Father "even though he is a member of that Council.

You may be assuming that "Father" refers to one particular Person within the Divine Council, and this may be causing you some confusion.
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No one has ever seen the Father.

No one knows the Father.

No one has ever heard the Father speak.

Only by looking at Jesus will you see the Father.

Everything was created through Jesus and for Jesus.

Jesus walked in the garden.

Jesus spoke to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Jesus spoke to Moses and Israel at Mt Sinai.

Jesus owns everything including you.

That's why He gave His life for you.
 
Mem said:
If God created the heavens and the earth out of nothing, then can't it be said that, if heaven and earth emerged out of anything, it came forth out of Him. Yet, God is not the heavens and the earth. Keeping that in mind, Jesus did not emerge out of nothing, and in that sense, He is not like the rest of us. In fact, Col 1:16.
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Jesus came from above.

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

That phrase "I am" was the same way that Jesus spoke to Moses.

Jesus is Lord over the heavens and the earth.

The Word is the visible form of God in human form and that's what Logos means.

We listened to Him, we spoke to Him, and we touched Him.

We worshiped Him many times and He accepted our worship.
 
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Lovette said:
I do agree that Jesus was not made in flesh until his incarnation. The Word was God and with God in the beginning, but the Word did not become flesh in the beginning. Before his birth, after until his baptism, his ministry were like a blueprint, a finished product, a powered and activated product.
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The world, the universe, time, the heavens belong to Jesus (the Word).

Colossians 1:15-16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created,
both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities
—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
 
Lovette said:
I do agree that Jesus was not made in flesh until his incarnation. The Word was God and with God in the beginning, but the Word did not become flesh in the beginning. Before his birth, after until his baptism, his ministry were like a blueprint, a finished product, a powered and activated product.
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So, why do you object to interpreting 1Cor. 15:35-50 as indicating Jesus was, and we will be, resurrected with spiritual bodies that
have capabilities unlike flesh, such as going through locked doors (John 20:19) and surviving without air in heaven (Acts 1:9-11)?
 
Lovette said:
I do agree that Jesus was not made in flesh until his incarnation. The Word was God and with God in the beginning, but the Word did not become flesh in the beginning. Before his birth, after until his baptism, his ministry were like a blueprint, a finished product, a powered and activated product.
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John 5:37
And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.

If no one has heard the Father speaking then who was talking to Moses and Israel, at Mt Sinai?
 
Mem said:
If God created the heavens and the earth out of nothing, then can't it be said that, if heaven and earth emerged out of anything, it came forth out of Him. Yet, God is not the heavens and the earth. Keeping that in mind, Jesus did not emerge out of nothing, and in that sense, He is not like the rest of us. In fact, Col 1:16.
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I prefer to believe God's Spirit pervades creation rather than that it nullifies His omnipresence.
IOW, God is both immanent and transcendent--and incarnate/in the human dimension as Jesus, and indwelling as the HS.
 
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GWH said:
I prefer to believe God's Spirit pervades creation rather than that it nullifies His omnipresence.
IOW, God is both immanent and transcendent--and incarnate/in the human dimension as Jesus, and indwelling as the HS.
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I find most do not state God dwells in Christ through the Holy Spirit, only God dwells in Christ. I agree with you
 
Inquisitor said:
John 5:37
And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.

If no one has heard the Father speaking then who was talking to Moses and Israel, at Mt Sinai?
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An angel of the Lord, see Ex. 3:1-2, similar to the angel that wrestled with Jacob. This is known as theophany, appearing of God the Father.
 
Qt said:
Where did you get that from Inquisitor?
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If the idea could be explained, although that explaining God is a monumental endeavor to take up, a word is a thought (spiritual) until it is spoken, that is a word's manifestation in the natural.
 
Lovette said:
An angel of the Lord, see Ex. 3:1-2, similar to the angel that wrestled with Jacob. This is known as theophany, appearing of God the Father.
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Is it ever possible that you be regarded as an angel of Lovette if you, given that you had the power and capability, went to speak your message to the ancient Egyptians?
 
GWH said:
So, why do you object to interpreting 1Cor. 15:35-50 as indicating Jesus was, and we will be, resurrected with spiritual bodies that
have capabilities unlike flesh, such as going through locked doors (John 20:19) and surviving without air in heaven (Acts 1:9-11)?
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"Spiritual body" is not a floating, wandering ghost. There's a celestial body for heaven, there's a terrestrial body for earth. As long as resurrection takes place on earth, not in heaven, "spiritual body" is still flesh, but without sin and death.
 
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Mem said:
Is it ever possible that you be regarded as an angel of Lovette if you, given that you had the power and capability, went to speak your message to the ancient Egyptians?
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That's what the word "angel" means in Greek, just "messenger" with no mythical undertone, it could be a heavenly host or a human being.
 
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Lovette said:
That's what the word "angel" means in Greek, just "messenger" with no mythical undertone, it could be a heavenly host or a human being.
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Yes. So, do you regard it a possibility that the Angel of the Lord is the Lord or do you draw a hard distinction that, though it is His messenger, it must be another other than Him?
 
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