Please help me to understand

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Lovette said:
Was Adam in the beginning? Did Adam create all things? If not, then neither was the Jesus born of Virgin Mary, because Adam was the prototype, you can't have the "last Adam" without the first Adam. The firstborn of all creation was not Adam, but the LIGHT, "let there be light". That's what Jesus was in the beginning.

And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45)
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That 'last Adam' was also the life giving Spirit in Genesis 2.

...and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters...
 
GWH said:
Reject 1Cor. 15:40? I am the one who cited it through v. 50 to you!

Calling the ability to walk through walls and elevate to heaven super-fleshly abilities is "balooney"?
I think it is YOU who is looney! Understand "glory" to indicate "ability".
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And you're the one who misunderstood it. You should've heard of the saying, "God wants your availability, not your ability." You still reject 1 Cor. 15:40 by speculating that we'll "elevate to heaven", even though bible prophecy states the opposite, that "this same Jesus" will descend FROM heaven to us, not us ascending to Him.
 
homwardbound said:
Analogies, physical are used to bring home the Spiritual realty of God loving us all. As said in John 3:12 I think I posted
I see your analogy and that works fr me too
I stand in belief God loves us all and Son went to that cross for us all to be new in love and mercy to all too John 13:34

I love the fact that you have read through the Bible to know God in his love for all. Which to me makes you a beleiver to God over everything else. Thank you for your shares in love and not defeating from that
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Forgive me for being cynical, but "love" is THE most abused word in English language, the homosexual slogans "love is love", "love wins", "right to love", have permanently ruined it.
 
Toknow said:
Lovette
You're right !

Let me say this:
ANY example you use to explain the Trinity will fall into some heretical category.
Because there is nothing ON EARTH...that is the same as IN HEAVEN.
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I don't think so. Jesus is the king of kings as much as God is the king of angels. "On earth, as it is in heaven."

Toknow said:
I'm not even sure your analogy works...would have to think about it a minute...
but no matter.

The trinity is not easy to explain...
many will not accept it because it doesn't seem LOGICAL to them...
as if we had to have the ability to understand God fully !
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If you can comprehend what it is like playing a virtual character in a virtual world, like Matrix or any MMORPG, you can comprehend my analogy. From God's perspective, this universe was created, it was "spoken" into being, and it has an expiration date, as heaven and earth will all pass away.
 
Inquisitor said:
A better translation would be 'one sent' rather than an an angel of the Lord.

Exodus 3:2
The angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush...

Even though the translation of the Hebrew states 'The angel of the Lord'.

The ground on which this messenger (one sent) stood was holy ground.

Moses refused to look because Moses knew who this messenger was.
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The bottom line is, there was no incarnation of God, only theophany. Any appearance of God in the OT was a theophany, none of them was Jesus the Son, because he didn't come in flesh. 1 Jn. 4:1-4 dictates that there's absolutely no wiggle room on this one, if there's any scripture that can be cherrypicked and weaponized, it's 1 Jn. 4:1-4. Therefore, it doesn't matter what translation you prefer, as long as that messenger was not birthed by virgin Mary, it was not Jesus the Son.
 
Lovette said:
I don't think so. Jesus is the king of kings as much as God is the king of angels. "On earth, as it is in heaven."



If you can comprehend what it is like playing a virtual character in a virtual world, like Matrix or any MMORPG, you can comprehend my analogy. From God's perspective, this universe was created, it was "spoken" into being, and it has an expiration date, as heaven and earth will all pass away.
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Lovette,,,I also read your post no. 247 and 248 to other members and it seems to me that you have an incorrect understanding of the Trintiy.

Could you please explain your understanding of the following verses?

John 1:1 and John 1:14


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.



14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
 
Lovette said:
The bottom line is, there was no incarnation of God, only theophany. Any appearance of God in the OT was a theophany, none of them was Jesus the Son, because he didn't come in flesh. 1 Jn. 4:1-4 dictates that there's absolutely no wiggle room on this one, if there's any scripture that can be cherrypicked and weaponized, it's 1 Jn. 4:1-4. Therefore, it doesn't matter what translation you prefer, as long as that messenger was not birthed by virgin Mary, it was not Jesus the Son.
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No wiggle room you say.

You say theophany and I say
  • Christophany: A specific type of Old Testament theophany believed to be a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ.
The Word can appear in any form to anyone.

The Incarnation was a one time, specific event for the salvation of humanity.
 
Toknow said:
Lovette,,,I also read your post no. 247 and 248 to other members and it seems to me that you have an incorrect understanding of the Trintiy.

Could you please explain your understanding of the following verses?

John 1:1 and John 1:14


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.



14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
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Can you acknowledge a biblical fact, that neither "flesh" nor "us" exist in the beginning, as the first human beings were created on Day 6? If we can at least agree that "in the beginning" means Day 1 in the creation week, then Jesus was the light - of the world - separated from darkness and void.
 
Inquisitor said:
No wiggle room you say.

You say theophany and I say
  • Christophany: A specific type of Old Testament theophany believed to be a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ.
The Word can appear in any form to anyone.

The Incarnation was a one time, specific event for the salvation of humanity.
Click to expand...

That is bogus. Any OT theophany is appearance of God the Father. Even if you believe there's an appearance of Christ, that's just a vision, an illusion, not materialized. Isaiah saw Christ's second coming, dressed in a bloody robe, likewise that's just a vision.
 
Inquisitor said:
No wiggle room you say.

You say theophany and I say
  • Christophany: A specific type of Old Testament theophany believed to be a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ.
The Word can appear in any form to anyone.

The Incarnation was a one time, specific event for the salvation of humanity.
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OK
But theophany is a good term and presents no problem.
I've never heard of Christophany...this does not mean the term does not exist.

Since God, Father, has NEVER BEEN SEEN by anyone...
it stands to reason that HE was not visible in the OT.

Whenever we see the presence of God in the OT..
it is always His word....the 2nd Person....Jesus.

As you've pointed out THE ANGEL OF GOD is Jesus.
 
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Lovette said:
Can you acknowledge a biblical fact, that neither "flesh" nor "us" exist in the beginning, as the first human beings were created on Day 6? If we can at least agree that "in the beginning" means Day 1 in the creation week, then Jesus was the light - of the world - separated from darkness and void.
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I'd rather not get into Genesis 1.
IN THE BEGINNING could mean the start of the earth.


I'm sorry Lovette that I don't understand your point very well since I just got here.
I understand FLESH to mean the physical body of a human being.

If you'd answer my question first, it would clear up some of your posts.

What does the following mean to you?
How do YOU understand the WORD OF GOD becoming flesh?


John 1:1 and John 1:14

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.



14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
 
Lovette said:
I don't think so. Jesus is the king of kings as much as God is the king of angels. "On earth, as it is in heaven."



If you can comprehend what it is like playing a virtual character in a virtual world, like Matrix or any MMORPG, you can comprehend my analogy. From God's perspective, this universe was created, it was "spoken" into being, and it has an expiration date, as heaven and earth will all pass away.
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I do agree with the above, BTW.
Just to clarify.
 
Inquisitor said:
Jesus was the logos and the logos was God.
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That is not the definition of the word or it's use back when John penned the Gospel.
You said,
Inquisitor said:
The Word is the visible form of God in human form and that's what Logos means.
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Logos does not mean that.

Yes the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. But that is not what Logos means. It is just how it was used in that instant, in that verse.
 
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