Please help me to understand

[Qt]

If the idea could be explained, although that explaining God is a monumental endeavor to take up, a word is a thought (spiritual) until it is spoken, that is a word's manifestation in the natural.

Thank you but,
I asked where he got this statement from not an explanation, "The Word is the visible form of God in human form and that's what Logos means. "
They are saying that the definition of Logos is, The Word is the visible form of God in human form. Where did they get that from?

 

[Lovette]

The world, the universe, time, the heavens belong to Jesus (the Word).

Colossians 1:15-16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created,
both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities
—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

Was Adam in the beginning? Did Adam create all things? If not, then neither was the Jesus born of Virgin Mary, because Adam was the prototype, you can't have the "last Adam" without the first Adam. The firstborn of all creation was not Adam, but the LIGHT, "let there be light". That's what Jesus was in the beginning.

And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45)

 

[Lovette]

Yes. So, do you regard it a possibility that the Angel of the Lord is the Lord or do you draw a hard distinction that, though it is His messenger, it must be another other than Him?

The "Him" as I know was born of the Holy Spirit and carried by Virgin Mary to full term in the first century Bethlehem, so you tell me whether there's a possibility that maybe in some other parallel universe, this had already happened in the OT.

 

[GWH]

"Spiritual body" is not a floating, wandering ghost. There's a celestial body for heaven, there's a terrestrial body for earth. As long as resurrection takes place on earth, not in heaven, "spiritual body" is still flesh, but without sin and death.

I agree that spiritual bodies are not "ghosts", but rather they are visible and resemble physical bodies but have super-physical/fleshly abilities. Why are you so reluctant to agree with Paul's description in 1Cor. 15:35-50? Verse 50 is blatantly clear, so why do you kick against that goad? What's the problem?

 

[Mem]

Thank you but,
I asked where he got this statement from not an explanation, "The Word is the visible form of God in human form and that's what Logos means. "
They are saying that the definition of Logos is, The Word is the visible form of God in human form. Where did they get that from?

I see, check the Greek in Jn 1:1 where "The Word" is translated from "Logos" and coupled with the subject "He" in 1cor 1:15, this is a logical deduction, or inference, whichever direction you approach it. Logic is of a derivative of Logos.

 

[Lovette]

I agree that spiritual bodies are not "ghosts", but rather they are visible and resemble physical bodies but have super-physical/fleshly abilities. Why are you so reluctant to agree with Paul's description in 1Cor. 15:35-50? Verse 50 is blatantly clear, so why do you kick against that goad? What's the problem?

Why do you kick against the goad by rejecting 1 Cor. 15:40, which is within that "description" you keep throwing at me? "Super-physical/fleshly abilities" is just balooney, you've watched too much super hero movies. It is you who mistakes resurrected body for "celestial body", which is not for us, as long as we won't rise in heaven.

There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. (1 Cor. 15:40)

 

[Mem]

The "Him" as I know was born of the Holy Spirit and carried by Virgin Mary to full term in the first century Bethlehem, so you tell me whether there's a possibility that maybe in some other parallel universe, this had already happened in the OT.

I can only ask you to consider the meaning and implications of 1Pet 3:19 to answer that question.

 

[Lovette]

I can only ask you to consider the meaning and implications of 1Pet 3:19 to answer that question.

The only implication is Rev. 1:18, "And I have the keys of Hades and of Death." and Rev. 2:7, "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens.” This confirmed that He died in those three days, he went to where all the deceased went.

 

[Mem]

The only implication is Rev. 1:18, "And I have the keys of Hades and of Death." and Rev. 2:7, "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens.” This confirmed that He died in those three days, he went to where all the deceased went.

If you can't consider all the possible implications, then you risk missing it altogether.

 

[Lovette]

If you can't consider all the possible implications, then you risk missing it altogether.

I only cling to interpretations given by the bible itself and historical facts.

 

[Mem]

I only cling to interpretations given by the bible itself and historical facts.

Hmm

 

[homwardbound]

I visualize the situation as truthseekers traveling various paths in a maze, sometimes taking wrong turns,
but with perseverance moving closer to spiritual maturity as they learn GW, eventually arriving at the goal
of perfection in heaven (Phil. 3:12-16). The Gospel is simple enough for a child old enough to sin to understand
and be saved, but we may never understand the perplexities in this life, so humility is appropriate. However, let us
not disparage the trouble God went to in order to provide Scripture for the edification of all who are willing to learn.
Enjoy our fellowship.

Growing in this grace given. a gift for all to receive, that begins the first day anyone chooses to believe God Eph 1:13, as God seals each to see it. That is where the choice gets made individually by every person. I remember years ago, going through Churches, gatherings, reading to find out, seeing sin always hanging out, trying to get me into harming others and gratifying myself through lusts in this world, which had holds, past now and I see I am in flesh still, even though I reckon first born flesh as dead daly a trait now. Not a pride anymore.

I remember, seeing, reading Hebrews 5. Verse 12 stuck out to me. I saw I needed Meat and to get past the milk and still remain humble
To learn from what Paul said to the Corinthians about needing Meat 1 Cor 3. How they took for granted this grace of God given them. They got the thought from Evil, that hey, I am forgiven 100%. all the time (By God that is truth) yet they thought they could just use it to take what they wanted, ate all the food, drank all the wine, had sex and thought! hey what is the big deal! I am and remain forgiven by God. Thanks to Son. That is why Paul wrote to them in 1 Cor. Then in 2 Cor 7 Paul acknowledges they got it, they now are in trust to God to lead them in love and mercy to all. They stopped harming others and selves. God then leading not anyone else.
So I read through to Chapter Hebrews 6:3 and saw "IF" and thought "IF" I do not do right then God will not allow me to eat the meat of the word. I could not fathom God as a tyrant.
So I began learning right there in trust to God Father in risen son Jesus no matter what, to not deny God no matter how anything appeared to me here.
I learned from the Greek that If sone times means since. So I started deciphering to see from Father in Father's Spirit and Truth to teach me
I heard clearly I just love you and all others too. I replied thank you. So I discerned God desires to teach us all. Then I heard those that are not sincere I do not reveal me to them in that truth of me yet. It is all on a beneficial basis for each to love in my mercy and truth to all too. Raising each up unto the new life in caring, it is not just doing flesh and blood activities. 1 Cor 13:1-3 without me one can not truly do Love and mercy as I have shown through Son to all, as risen as proof.
I heard to look at Genesis 3 when God said "Man has become like one of us". Then God guarded the tree of life until Jesus Christ his Son came here to be the reconciler to all first as all being forgiven now and forever through Son unto Father, where new life in God's Spirit and Truth reside John 4:23-24

You see I see God still speaks, but does not end at the Bible messages. God stilll reveals truth of scripture over errors of people that misinterpret for their own benefits, Been there, done that, no thank you anymore as Paul saw this also. Phil 3

Thanks for listening as I speak mainly to me in humility remembering I have no righteousness of my own ever. I have righteousness, it is not mine, it is God's Father's and Son's as Won for us all to believe and stand in. Col 1:21-23

 

[GWH]

Why do you kick against the goad by rejecting 1 Cor. 15:40, which is within that "description" you keep throwing at me? "Super-physical/fleshly abilities" is just balooney, you've watched too much super hero movies. It is you who mistakes resurrected body for "celestial body", which is not for us, as long as we won't rise in heaven.

There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. (1 Cor. 15:40)

Reject 1Cor. 15:40? I am the one who cited it through v. 50 to you!

Calling the ability to walk through walls and elevate to heaven super-fleshly abilities is "balooney"?
I think it is YOU who is looney! Understand "glory" to indicate "ability".

 

[GWH]

Growing in this grace given. a gift for all to receive, that begins the first day anyone chooses to believe God Eph 1:13, as God seals each to see it. That is where the choice gets made individually by every person. I remember years ago, going through Churches, gatherings, reading to find out, seeing sin always hanging out, trying to get me into harming others and gratifying myself through lusts in this world, which had holds, past now and I see I am in flesh still, even though I reckon first born flesh as dead daly a trait now. Not a pride anymore.

I remember, seeing, reading Hebrews 5. Verse 12 stuck out to me. I saw I needed Meat and to get past the milk and still remain humble
To learn from what Paul said to the Corinthians about needing Meat 1 Cor 3. How they took for granted this grace of God given them. They got the thought from Evil, that hey, I am forgiven 100%. all the time (By God that is truth) yet they thought they could just use it to take what they wanted, ate all the food, drank all the wine, had sex and thought! hey what is the big deal! I am and remain forgiven by God. Thanks to Son. That is why Paul wrote to them in 1 Cor. Then in 2 Cor 7 Paul acknowledges they got it, they now are in trust to God to lead them in love and mercy to all. They stopped harming others and selves. God then leading not anyone else.
So I read through to Chapter Hebrews 6:3 and saw "IF" and thought "IF" I do not do right then God will not allow me to eat the meat of the word. I could not fathom God as a tyrant.
So I began learning right there in trust to God Father in risen son Jesus no matter what, to not deny God no matter how anything appeared to me here.
I learned from the Greek that If sone times means since. So I started deciphering to see from Father in Father's Spirit and Truth to teach me
I heard clearly I just love you and all others too. I replied thank you. So I discerned God desires to teach us all. Then I heard those that are not sincere I do not reveal me to them in that truth of me yet. It is all on a beneficial basis for each to love in my mercy and truth to all too. Raising each up unto the new life in caring, it is not just doing flesh and blood activities. 1 Cor 13:1-3 without me one can not truly do Love and mercy as I have shown through Son to all, as risen as proof.
I heard to look at Genesis 3 when God said "Man has become like one of us". Then God guarded the tree of life until Jesus Christ his Son came here to be the reconciler to all first as all being forgiven now and forever through Son unto Father, where new life in God's Spirit and Truth reside John 4:23-24

You see I see God still speaks, but does not end at the Bible messages. God stilll reveals truth of scripture over errors of people that misinterpret for their own benefits, Been there, done that, no thank you anymore as Paul saw this also. Phil 3

Thanks for listening as I speak mainly to me in humility remembering I have no righteousness of my own ever. I have righteousness, it is not mine, it is God's Father's and Son's as Won for us all to believe and stand in. Col 1:21-23

It is refreshing to celebrate learning GW with you, such as the meaning of "IF". I wonder why it is so difficult for some folks to enjoy? (Just now it is like pulling teeth to get Lovette to harmonize 1Cor. 15:40 with 1Cor. 15:50, when it seems so obvious to me.)

I agree that God gives truthseekers insights that clarify the biblical revelation. When I share mine, I hope folks realize that I am
always open to hearing better/constructive ones, because I consider myself to be a lead learner on CC--and I have learned a lot since joining, for example: "There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace or motivates good works while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime (Rom. 1:17). IOW, the ability to do good works as well as have saving faith are both due to God’s grace."

 

[birdie]

God Almighty can not be sent by anyone. If anyone is sent, He is the sender. Jesus was in heaven with the Father when he was sent by Him to become a man and die. Jesus kept on saying that he was sent by the Father to complete a mission. According to Jesus, his bread was to do the Father's will. It seems that there is someone in charge, and it's not Jesus.

"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. "

 

[homwardbound]

The egg analogy is terrible, it splits the trinity into three separate entity, typical reductionist mentality. A better analogy would be God's presence on earth (Holy Spirit, the Helper), in heaven (God the Father) and the interface (Jesus the Son). The key is that God and his angels dwell in a heavenly realm beyond the time-space continuum we're in, that's hard to imagine and accept for a modern, rational, empirical mind.

Analogies, physical are used to bring home the Spiritual realty of God loving us all. As said in John 3:12 I think I posted
I see your analogy and that works fr me too
I stand in belief God loves us all and Son went to that cross for us all to be new in love and mercy to all too John 13:34

I love the fact that you have read through the Bible to know God in his love for all. Which to me makes you a beleiver to God over everything else. Thank you for your shares in love and not defeating from that

 

[Toknow]

The egg analogy is terrible, it splits the trinity into three separate entity, typical reductionist mentality. A better analogy would be God's presence on earth (Holy Spirit, the Helper), in heaven (God the Father) and the interface (Jesus the Son). The key is that God and his angels dwell in a heavenly realm beyond the time-space continuum we're in, that's hard to imagine and accept for a modern, rational, empirical mind.

Lovette
You're right !

Let me say this:
ANY example you use to explain the Trinity will fall into some heretical category.
Because there is nothing ON EARTH...that is the same as IN HEAVEN.

I'm not even sure your analogy works...would have to think about it a minute...
but no matter.

The trinity is not easy to explain...
many will not accept it because it doesn't seem LOGICAL to them...
as if we had to have the ability to understand God fully !

 

[Toknow]

"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. "

So you're worshipping a MAN??

 

[homwardbound]

It is refreshing to celebrate learning GW with you, such as the meaning of "IF". I wonder why it is so difficult for some folks to enjoy? (Just now it is like pulling teeth to get Lovette to harmonize 1Cor. 15:40 with 1Cor. 15:50, when it seems so obvious to me.)

What seems obvious to each person is not obvious to the other person. As we each see, many who are sincere and others not sincere. Father knows each and I see what Paul was saying about those that are sincere and those that aren't.
I see Lovette as sincere between God and her, and I could be wrong, yet this is not about we. All you or I or even here can do is share what we believe and trust God to grow each of us in his love and mercy for all by Son first. 1 John 4:17-19

this can and has caused perplexities between people who believe God loves them. Not so much with those that use the truth to beset people, as they tried to do with Paul and laugh over his being jailed. Paul, Who said I am content in both, why?

Because Christ is being preached. He remained in trust to Father to reach anyone and everyone through risen Son, no matter what others thought. It was not about him, or anyone ever. The Jail help who saw him still praise God while in jail came to belief also. so best to rejoice in adversities as well. re see Stephan who continued to praise God even while being g stoned to death in front of Saul. then the road to Damascus.
It is the Love for all to all of God's Son as risen for all that overcomes all even death as seen as risen by the disciples first, written to us all in the Bible
thank you

Thank you for the rest as. we each grow further in trus too god alone through risen Son. I hav and am learning much also. willing between God and each person willingly teaches truth, thank you for being you

 

[Inquisitor]

That's what the word "angel" means in Greek, just "messenger" with no mythical undertone, it could be a heavenly host or a human being.

A better translation would be 'one sent' rather than an an angel of the Lord.

Exodus 3:2
The angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush...

Even though the translation of the Hebrew states 'The angel of the Lord'.

The ground on which this messenger (one sent) stood was holy ground.

Moses refused to look because Moses knew who this messenger was.