Understanding God’s election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#13,541
Feb 17, 2024
4,643
593
113
#13,541
HeIsHere said:
It is not the correct understanding because it does not state "gifted spiritual special hearing" and it denies the entire Gospel message.
Click to expand...
On the other hand, faith itself is a divine gift! Of course, in your universe that would not make faith an efficacious grace.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#13,542
Mar 1, 2022
22,614
7,725
113
63
#13,542
Pilgrimshope said:
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you think man’s responsible for what God did to save humanity ?
Click to expand...
Not at all. I simply understand the dreadful estate of man before God, and his inability to reconcile himself to God. Man's condition necessitates action on God's part.
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#13,544
Feb 17, 2024
4,643
593
113
#13,544
GWH said:
Yes, but the point of disagreement is whether God loves/wants to save every sinner, not just you, Ruf and Mag.
Click to expand...
There's not passage in scripture that teaches that God ever purposed to save each and every sinner in the world. That's your pipe dream. If he purposed to do that, then all would be saved, for nothing in this universe can thwart God's purposes -- not even your supposed "freewill".
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#13,545
Mar 1, 2022
22,614
7,725
113
63
#13,545
lrs68 said:
He only needs to mention it one time But He also has mentioned to CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY WHOM TO SERVE and that HE DOESN'T DESIRE ANY TO PERISH BUT FOR THEM TO CHOOSE LIFE OR GOD many times and that is completely ignored for Potter\Clay one time mention because in your mathematics 1 time mention is more than many times.

Or maybe it's like what's being mentioned, you have an agenda to push a Doctrine that everyone knows is weak?
Click to expand...
Your reference is an old covenant reference. For those under the old covenant, not choosing to follow God brought with it death. Incidentally, death was the sanction for disobedience under the covenant.
 
lrs68

lrs68

Well-known member
#13,546
Dec 30, 2024
1,315
367
83
#13,546
Cameron143 said:
Your reference is an old covenant reference. For those under the old covenant, not choosing to follow God brought with it death. Incidentally, death was the sanction for disobedience under the covenant.
Click to expand...
Peter mentions the same thing
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#13,548
Jul 3, 2015
64,697
32,954
113
#13,548
Cameron143 said:
Your reference is an old covenant reference. For those under the old covenant, not choosing to follow God brought with it death. Incidentally, death was the sanction for disobedience under the covenant.
Click to expand...
Death was given as the consequence for disobedience/sin right at the beginning. Satan came along and lied about that, and that lie, the lie at the heart of the fall of man and corruption of all creation, is being repeated to this very day as well.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#13,549
May 21, 2022
8,921
3,348
113
#13,549
Cameron143 said:
I've been on the same track all along...it is God who saves. Mankind is helpless to save themselves.
Click to expand...
Like that is even the argument. :rolleyes:
That you resort to this tells us you have no real scriptural basis for your position.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#13,550
Oct 19, 2024
5,478
1,124
113
USA-TX
#13,550
Rufus said:
On the other hand, faith itself is a divine gift! Of course, in your universe that would not make faith an efficacious grace.
Click to expand...
Yes, faith is a divine gift, but it can be misused, just like other gifts.
A&E misused it by believing the Serpent rather than GW,
so it is not irresistible but only efficacious when employed to seek God/GW.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#13,551
Mar 1, 2022
22,614
7,725
113
63
#13,551
GWH said:
Yes, but the point of disagreement is whether God loves/wants to save every sinner, not just you, Ruf and Mag.
Click to expand...
That's not the only point of disagreement. Others here do not concede the point I made.
As to whether God desires men to be saved...He does. But it is also true that He doesn't bring salvation to all.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#13,552
Sep 2, 2020
15,782
6,365
113
#13,552
Cameron143 said:
Read the next to the last paragraph in the post I cited. It spoke of God circumcising the heart, opening eyes, unstopping ears,...this is exactly what God does in saving an individual.
Click to expand...
Yep he magically makes some able to understand language
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#13,553
Feb 17, 2024
4,643
593
113
#13,553
HeIsHere said:
I highly doubt Calvinist even know what "moral ability" even means.
Click to expand...
Well...for starters the phrase isn't in the bible, so there is that. So, why don't you define for us what YOU mean by "moral ability"?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#13,555
Mar 1, 2022
22,614
7,725
113
63
#13,555
HeIsHere said:
Like that is even the argument. :rolleyes:
That you resort to this tells us you have no real scriptural basis for your position.
Click to expand...
And yet I've shared the scripture with you that showed the genesis of faith, how understanding is opened, and Who weilds the power of the gospel. You, on the other hand, have yet to share a scripture.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#13,556
Oct 19, 2024
5,478
1,124
113
USA-TX
#13,556
Rufus said:
There's not passage in scripture that teaches that God ever purposed to save each and every sinner in the world. That's your pipe dream. If he purposed to do that, then all would be saved, for nothing in this universe can thwart God's purposes -- not even your supposed "freewill".
Click to expand...
I know you believe God hates humanity other than your ilk,
but I believe that disbelieving the 7 pearls borders on blasphemy,
because it contradicts divine righteousness/justness/non-favoritism.
You cannot thwart God's intentional will to allow/permit MFW.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#13,557
Nov 20, 2018
24,596
8,954
113
#13,557
Rufus said:
FWers will tell us that all the above are just minor obstacles which their power of "freewill" can easily overcome. After all, God has given us all an ability that He doesn't even have: We can make choices contrary to our nature. Long live Man's Freewill! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
There is no doubt whatsoever that Adam made wrong choices contrary to his nature before the fall.
And right choices after he fell.

Satan was unfallen at his creation as well. What happened? God willed that he should perish?

Oh and BTW, believers make wrong choices contrary to God's will and their "new man" nature all the time day in and day out.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#13,559
May 21, 2022
8,921
3,348
113
#13,559
Rufus said:
On the other hand, faith itself is a divine gift! Of course, in your universe that would not make faith an efficacious grace.
Click to expand...
Scripture and Jesus state otherwise.

Salvation is the gift received through faith meaning clearly that faith is the condition to met.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#13,560
Sep 2, 2020
15,782
6,365
113
#13,560
Cameron143 said:
Not at all. I simply understand the dreadful estate of man before God, and his inability to reconcile himself to God. Man's condition necessitates action on God's part.
Click to expand...
again cameron man didn’t accomplish the gospel or send it out promising salvation to anyone who believes . That’s what God did to save people

The gospel is the power of God to save anyone who believes

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16KJV‬‬

 
You must log in or register to reply here.