The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

I disagree that they are being saved. They are already saved and learning how to live as saved people. This is much the same as the law in the OT. God chose Israel as His people, and gave them the law to have them live as His people. The law being on the hearts of God's people now, and the Holy Spirit indwelling them, God has merely to will and to do of His good pleasure to show His people how to live as His people.
The idea that our efforts in any way contribute to our salvation is false. Our efforts can only quicken or lengthen the time it takes God to do His work, but His work is done by Him alone. And He will conform us to the image of Christ with our cooperation or our chastening and consequent cooperation.

You simply don't understand what God is teaching in the passage.

All I can think of to say, is 'another bone from Jim'.

Dear Jimbone. I've never said I'm above the petty squabbles. It's clear from some of my responses that I get sucked into them at times very easily. Hopefully you'll give me a little room and notice how I've repetitively attempted to bring this down to as deep a review of Scripture that we can get to in a forum like this.

No, I don't have this all worked out, but I was trained and ordained to teach under one of the traditions being put forth here. And I have read many exegetical studies in the "scholarly" realm on this issue on most if not all sides of the debate. So, I have studied a wide sample of teachings on the matter, albeit it's been a while mostly because I don't find it to be one of my main interests and the debates about it are at about the same level of emotional intensity as Eschatological discussions. There's never anything close to a resolution and the same points are repeated continuously.

Honestly, you're only capable of summarizing my argument as much as your level of understanding is and as much as I've even said what my position is. And from your limited posting of Scripture or maybe no such posting, coupled with your position on one side of the debate and virtually meaningless remarks about how others who interpret or have been taught differently than you remotely think we are in a position to or taking a position that boasts, just shows me you have no clue what's being said.

As I've said to others, the Ignore function on this forum works well.

Forgive me for approaching you if I in fact did so.

I thought you had moved on a while ago.

OK. Do you think Salvation is a Process?

Salvation takes place in a moment in time. The relationship that comes about as a result of it is a process.

Put on a show.

If anyone here is putting on a show it is you

You say we must work. I ask you numerous times what work. and you do nto answer.
You try to tell others what they believe anbd what they are doing. and fail to take into account it may just be you who are doing this. and then get upset when people call you out on it.
You say your not trying to earn salvation. yet every post you make is work work work. then you get upset when people call you out for trying to earn your salvation.

Like I said, you said we have to obey all of Gods commands. well i agree. The issue is we have failed to do so. and are satill failing to do so (unless we are without sin)(so not only are we unable to meet the standards you say we must meet. But we can not meet Gods standard.

which is why we need saved, and why we need kept saved. because no matter how hard we try. we can sin and fall short of Gods glory

remember, he is not trying to earn his salvation (so he says)

Heb10 IMO is another tough one for the simplistic belief group. Even within it 10:25 when the writer is talking about assembling, the assembling is for literally provoking one another to love and good works which is another example of Christian growth in line with Paul's Phil2:12 command to accomplish our salvation with fear and trembling. As Paul continues in Phil3 he's calling people who are not maturing and further advancing to perfection - which he parallels to arriving at the resurrection - enemies of Christ's cross.

This is more that tells me that those who are so stuck on the entrance into the Salvation Process per God's Plan have lost the focus of what Salvation is ultimately all about - producing adult sons, matured sons, continually exerting themselves to attain to the high calling of God in Christ Jesus - to arrive at the resurrection.

So, if such who do not see this in the cross and are not in this pursuit are enemies of the cross, then who are those who peel of and trample Jesus Christ under foot?

It's this pursuit that has always interested me. This wrangling about doing or not doing something is tragic.

Again, just to make it clear - if at all possible - separate from Jesus Christ the Vine - we can do NOTHING. But with God, all things are possible.

Got Scripture, pup.

I think he's sincere in His pursuit of God. I also think he is sincerely wrong about the passage in view.

The entrance into the Process happens when one [truly] believes.

Whether or not one can think they entered but really didn't and/or enter then walk away from the entrance or Process is the topic of the OP.

So, you don't believe Salvation is a Process.

Then you are untaught in the language of salvation in the NC. You've never heard or have rejected salvation taught in the concepts of 'were saved' > 'are being saved' > 'will be saved"? Or Salvation in 3 phases? Or anything similar?

Thanks in part but also says one of the ones who changes the language of the verse.

What's also fun here is watching the enemy of my enemy is my friend. One of you believes in cooperation with God and the other decries it as meritorious works.

Acts 15:11; Rom. 5:9; 1 Cor. 13:15 says “shall be saved”

Every instance of usage of "save" in any tense, needs to be look at in context apart from the blinders of the typical "are you saved" question, for example.

Look at the Rom5:9 you've posted: Justified is past - salvation is future. All such instruction needs to be reasoned and if we don't see the Salvation Process, we're going to get stuck and/or we're going to start changing the language of the Scripture.

Different forms and tenses and contexts of the words, 'save' and 'salvation' occur as I recall more than 150+ times in the NC. I recall in studying them all in context the impression that the NC is most often looking through the entrance and focusing on the Christian in the Salvation Process looking forward to the end of the Process.

Salvation occurs when one believes. An individual is born from above, their heart having been circumcised have been adopted into the family of God. The Holy Spirit takes up residence and He is the deposit and assurance that what God has begun and promised us will come to fruition.
Out of that relationship comes a lifetime of ongoing changes, but salvation occurs once. It is built upon, filled out, and more fully and more deeply experienced, but it only occurs once in terms of being placed into Christ.

I decry it to as a means of salvation. I simply recognize it as a part of sanctification.

Agreed. I suspect that is why there is such a thing called eternal salvation? There is the initial salvation of gotten saved, being saved and then eternal?

Because they do not obey the commands of Paul against arguing and quarreling?

Yes, with self-inclusion.

He never said that.

Understood.