Hay, wait for me.

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GRACE_ambassador

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Feb 22, 2021
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#81
I‘m a post-tribber.
+ Ga [ pre-tribber ] referenced 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-54
+

Indeed. While not everyone will experience the first resurrection, EVERYONE will be changed.
The condition of your soul has nothing to do with the change from your physical body to your new spiritual or incorruptible one. If you were lost before, you will remain lost; if you are under the blood of Jesus Christ, you will remain in the same spiritual condition. All flesh will be destroyed at the blowing of the seventh trumpet, which is the last trumpet, and all souls will now exist in their spiritual bodies.
Thanks, appreciate the input; let's see if I am able to 'unpack' your post-trib position Correctly:

A) All the 'living and remaining' members of The Body Of Christ are still 'on
the earth' during 7 years of The Time of Jacob's [ Israel's ] Trouble, Correct?

B) At the second coming of Christ, there is:

1) a resurrection of Only the 'spiritually living' but not the​
'spiritually dead' ( condition of soul ) ] =​
"not everyone will experience the first resurrection", Correct?​
2) also, there is a 'catching up' [ rapture ] of 'EVERYONE', the "dead"​
who were just resurrected, and, then ALL who were still physically
alive, who are ALL 'changed' "into immortality/incorruptibility",​
regardless of the 'condition of their souls', Correct?​

3) from this "meeting..." of the 'resurrected and EVERYONE living/changed'​
"...in the air" there will will be no one "going to heaven," but a 'u-turn' and​
EVERYONE will be brought back to earth with Christ, Correct?​
4) will there be a judgment of EVERYONE, and​
a) the righteous resurrected and living/changed will​
"enter the kingdom", 'immortal and incorruptible' Eternally,​
and:​
b) the UNrighteous who "lived and remained,'​
will then be "destroyed" , although being changed
into 'spiritually incorruptible and immortal', being​
"cast into the lake of fire?​

Sound about right?
 

achduke7

Active member
Oct 3, 2023
102
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#82
3) from this "meeting..." of the 'resurrected and EVERYONE living/changed'"...in the air" there will will be no one "going to heaven," but a 'u-turn' andEVERYONE will be brought back to earth with Christ, Correct?
It is not a u-turn. It is believers meeting their triumphal King as he makes his entrance.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#83
--the "10 Virgins" (or even the "5 Wise Virgins" are not the "Bride/Wife [singular]" (the "a chaste virgin [singular]" presently "betrothed" per 1Cor11:2--that's us); Jesus is not coming in this passage to "MARRY" 10 or even "5 Virgins" (these are not the "Bride / Wife [singular]" and this point in the chronology is not "our Rapture [in the air]," but His Second Coming to the earth, FOR
EDIT to correct: should read 2Cor11:2




[I was sure I hit the "2" key... guess not! Not only is my typing finger getting clumsy, apparently my eyes are nearing total blindness too! EEEEEEEKS!--yes, I am old. :D ]
 

selahsays

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#84
@GRACE_ambassador

Well, let’s see. I’ll do my best to lay it out the way I understand the Scriptures. We’ll start in 1 Thessalonians 4:14:

1 Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

To “sleep in Jesus“ refers to those Christians who have died (in Jesus) and are in heaven (to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord—2 Corinthians 5:8) Also, in the book of Ecclesiastes, we can see that all people who have died are with God In heaven. Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise precede them which are asleep."

This is talking about the time that we gather back to Jesus Christ at the 7th trumpet. In other words, we are not going to go before those who have already died and gone to heaven.

Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us that we will not be going anywhere. We’re staying put right here on earth. When Jesus returns at His Second Coming, we are going to be changed into our new spiritual bodies:
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

At this time, the overcomers will go through the First Resurrection. Note: Even those folks who are dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body (a spiritual body that never grows old or gets sick). Mind you, these folks have not achieved immortality yet. The Great White Throne Judgment has not yet taken place. This happens after the Millennium (in which much teaching will be done).

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

Revelation (chapter 11) gives us much detail regarding the events of the latter days, and so when we see these things happening right before our very eyes, we will know our Lord will return soon. Then the 7th trump will sound and the gathering will take place and we will all be changed from our flesh bodies into our spiritual bodies.

And not one day before. IMG_5750.gif
. . .
air = spiritual, in the Greek, “breath of life”
clouds = a large gathering—example in Hebrews 12:1
Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
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#85
+ Ga [ pre-tribber ] referenced 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-54
+


Thanks, appreciate the input; let's see if I am able to 'unpack' your post-trib position Correctly:

A) All the 'living and remaining' members of The Body Of Christ are still 'on
the earth' during 7 years of The Time of Jacob's [ Israel's ] Trouble, Correct?

B) At the second coming of Christ, there is:

1) a resurrection of Only the 'spiritually living' but not the​
'spiritually dead' ( condition of soul ) ] =​
"not everyone will experience the first resurrection", Correct?​
2) also, there is a 'catching up' [ rapture ] of 'EVERYONE', the "dead"​
who were just resurrected, and, then ALL who were still physically
alive, who are ALL 'changed' "into immortality/incorruptibility",​
regardless of the 'condition of their souls', Correct?​

3) from this "meeting..." of the 'resurrected and EVERYONE living/changed'​
"...in the air" there will will be no one "going to heaven," but a 'u-turn' and​
EVERYONE will be brought back to earth with Christ, Correct?​
4) will there be a judgment of EVERYONE, and​
a) the righteous resurrected and living/changed will​
"enter the kingdom", 'immortal and incorruptible' Eternally,​
and:​
b) the UNrighteous who "lived and remained,'​
will then be "destroyed" , although being changed
into 'spiritually incorruptible and immortal', being​
"cast into the lake of fire?​

Sound about right?
Well, let’s see. I’ll do my best to lay it out the way I understand the Scriptures. We’ll start in 1 Thessalonians 4:14:

1 Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

To “sleep in Jesus“ refers to those Christians who have died (in Jesus) and are in heaven (to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord—2 Corinthians 5:8) Also, in the book of Ecclesiastes, we can see that all people who have died are with God In heaven. Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise precede them which are asleep."

This is talking about the time that we gather back to Jesus Christ at the 7th trumpet. In other words, we are not going to go before those who have already died and gone to heaven.

Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us that we will not be going anywhere. We’re staying put right here on earth. When Jesus returns at His Second Coming, we are going to be changed into our new spiritual bodies:
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

At this time, the overcomers will go through the First Resurrection. Note: Even those folks who are dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body (a spiritual body that never grows old or gets sick). Mind you, these folks have not achieved immortality yet. The Great White Throne Judgment has not yet taken place. This happens after the Millennium (in which much teaching will be done).

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

Revelation (chapter 11) gives us much detail regarding the events of the latter days, and so when we see these things happening right before our very eyes, we will know our Lord will return soon. Then the 7th trump will sound and the gathering will take place and we will all be changed from our flesh bodies into our spiritual bodies.

And not one day before.


. . .
air = spiritual, in the Greek, “breath of life”
clouds = a large gathering—example in Hebrews 12:1
Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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#86
A little over a month ago, this lady (Sarah) asked me, “If a person is a Christian but does not believe in the catching away of the church, but there is, will they be caught up with the others?” I told her, “Sarah, you have asked one of the most challenging questions anyone can ask. I’ll do my best to answer it: ‘We are saved by faith,’ we can all agree on that. Concerning your question, two other questions will first have to be asked and then answered. First, what is faith? Secondly, how much faith is needed?

The rest of my conversation with her went something like this. I said, “Saving faith would include trust, sincerity, mercy, full assurance, hope, nothing doubted, good works, zeal, consistency, and confidence. We have to have faith in the Word, in the Father, in Christ, and trust in the Holy Spirit.

Faith is to believe that God is and that all his words are true. Take note of the word ‘all,’ not some or almost all. Certain declarations may have been declared in the past but may also refer to the present and the future, all being revelations and promises from God. In these things, Christians must trust God.

Paul was declared an apostle of Jesus Christ. He wrote in 1 Corinthians 15:31 around 55 A.D., twenty-four years after the cross. “I show you a mystery.”

This thing Paul was about to reveal to the Corinthian church was unknown, not evident, and far above human insight. Even the apostles were in the dark concerning the Rapture. But the time came for the Holy Spirit to reveal this mystery to Paul, who would then show it to the church. We will not find this doctrine in any of the four gospels; it is only in Paul’s writing.

Paul also wrote in 1 Corinthians 2:14, ‘The natural man (the unbeliever) receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.’

Noah’s faith in God may be a good lesson for us to review. Hebrews 11:7, ‘By faith, Noah, was warned of God of things not seen as yet, (so he) moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house (his family);’

In Noah’s day, God had determined to punish the evil cultivated and performed by men. The LORD instructed Noah, who believed and was “moved with fear.” Noah’s action resulted from his faith in the LORD. His emotions and actions correspond to the object of his belief, demonstrating the reality of his faith. One hundred and twenty years later, the words the LORD spoke to Noah came to pass. Now, ask yourself, would your patience and faithfulness have been strong enough to wait 120 years? Or would you have put your tools away after five or ten years and continued your daily routine? If so, you would have been one of the casualties of the flood.

Paul wrote, ‘All Scripture is given by inspiration of God.” It’s not some or part, but all. No man can ever say they know and understand everything in Scripture. As for the things not understood, that’s where saving faith comes in.

The apostle Peter commented on Paul’s Epistles in 2 Peter 3:15-16. He said that the Lord revealed certain mysteries to Paul. He wrote, ‘Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him has written unto you; as also in his (Paul’s) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which some things are hard to understand.’

One of those hard-to-understand mysteries was the catching away of the bride of Christ. Peter had declared that Paul had an uncommon measure of wisdom given to him by the Lord, obscure things, things not easily understood. And because they are hard to understand and believe, those who lack true faith will torture and twist God’s words or reject them outwardly.

Now, to answer Sarah’s question. There will be no signs or warnings; being prepared is what Jesus expects from us. But for those who ‘are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,’ Jesus said, ‘I will spit (vomit) you out of my mouth.’ These words should answer the question, ‘If you don’t believe in the pre-trib-rapture, or don’t believe in the rapture at all, will they be raised up into heaven with the others who believe in the rapture?’

How many Christians have become trapped in denominational teachings, having forgotten how to think for themselves? They have more faith in men and the things of this world than they have in God’s Word.

Paul also wrote in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, in 52 A.D., ‘For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.’

Paul could not have said it any more straightforward than that. There is a catching away of the bride of Christ. There is no way the Lord would even consider leaving his bride in the hands of the antichrist. Now let’s flip this coin over to its other side.

The tribulation will be a violent period, and those who enter will have to save themselves. There is no, ‘By faith are you saved;’ once they enter the tribulation period. They are given two choices: receive the beast’s mark, worship his image, and live, but later, judged. Their end, “And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire; this is the second death,” Revelation 20:14.

Or they will reject the mark, refuse to worship the antichrist image, and be put to death. But these will be raised back to life before the 1000 reign.

Revelation 20:4, John saw, “The souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” That’s my understanding of this difficult subject. Your thoughts.
how will those who are dead in Christ prepare themselves? they sleep, how will they be watching and waiting?

Nobody gets left behind see. That is pretribulation rapture nonsense.

Who travails in childbirth? is it a man? or is it the woman?

Jeremiah describes the tribulation for the Jews [the time of Jacob's trouble] the Jews are in terror, "every face turned to paleness" God asks "WHY?"

"WHY ARE YOU JEWS AFRAID?" "why do I see every man with his hands on his loins and every face turned to paleness? ah the day like no other, the time of Jacob's trouble .... but [glorious but]

.... But I will save him out of it"

"FEAR NOT O JACOB, BE NOT DISMAYED O ISRAEL for I will save you from afar and your offspring from the land of their captivity and Jacob will return and have quiet and ease"

Israel is God's firstborn son, the church is the bride.

It is the church that travails in childbirth [the great tribulation] not Israel.

Why then is it called the "time of Jacob's trouble?" because ...

... the trouble is coming upon the nations for the way they have treated the Jews during their long diaspora.

And the church is in the nations. And it is the church which is the mystery kept hidden but revealed to Paul, the reason only Paul talks about the rapture is because only he understood the church would be in the nations .

The church goes through the great tribulation.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
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#87
how will those who are dead in Christ prepare themselves? they sleep, how will they be watching and waiting?

Nobody gets left behind see. That is pretribulation rapture nonsense.

Who travails in childbirth? is it a man? or is it the woman?

Jeremiah describes the tribulation for the Jews [the time of Jacob's trouble] the Jews are in terror, "every face turned to paleness" God asks "WHY?"

"WHY ARE YOU JEWS AFRAID?" "why do I see every man with his hands on his loins and every face turned to paleness? ah the day like no other, the time of Jacob's trouble .... but [glorious but]

.... But I will save him out of it"

"FEAR NOT O JACOB, BE NOT DISMAYED O ISRAEL for I will save you from afar and your offspring from the land of their captivity and Jacob will return and have quiet and ease"

Israel is God's firstborn son, the church is the bride.

It is the church that travails in childbirth [the great tribulation] not Israel.

Why then is it called the "time of Jacob's trouble?" because ...

... the trouble is coming upon the nations for the way they have treated the Jews during their long diaspora.

And the church is in the nations. And it is the church which is the mystery kept hidden but revealed to Paul, the reason only Paul talks about the rapture is because only he understood the church would be in the nations .

The church goes through the great tribulation.
amen 🙂
 

achduke7

Active member
Oct 3, 2023
102
30
28
#88
how will those who are dead in Christ prepare themselves? they sleep, how will they be watching and waiting?

Nobody gets left behind see. That is pretribulation rapture nonsense.

Who travails in childbirth? is it a man? or is it the woman?

Jeremiah describes the tribulation for the Jews [the time of Jacob's trouble] the Jews are in terror, "every face turned to paleness" God asks "WHY?"

"WHY ARE YOU JEWS AFRAID?" "why do I see every man with his hands on his loins and every face turned to paleness? ah the day like no other, the time of Jacob's trouble .... but [glorious but]

.... But I will save him out of it"

"FEAR NOT O JACOB, BE NOT DISMAYED O ISRAEL for I will save you from afar and your offspring from the land of their captivity and Jacob will return and have quiet and ease"

Israel is God's firstborn son, the church is the bride.

It is the church that travails in childbirth [the great tribulation] not Israel.

Why then is it called the "time of Jacob's trouble?" because ...

... the trouble is coming upon the nations for the way they have treated the Jews during their long diaspora.

And the church is in the nations. And it is the church which is the mystery kept hidden but revealed to Paul, the reason only Paul talks about the rapture is because only he understood the church would be in the nations .

The church goes through the great tribulation.

I submit that the church is a part of Israel and Israel is the church being grafted/adopted in or native born. Even native born from Abraham were cast out and can be grafted back in.

Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
 

GRACE_ambassador

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Feb 22, 2021
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#89

10-22-27

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#90
how will those who are dead in Christ prepare themselves? they sleep, how will they be watching and waiting?
Evmur, Come on. No one can prepare themselves after they die. They had better be saved before they die. I don't know if you believe man consists of body, soul and spirit, I do. When the saved die, the soul and spirit go to be with the Lord. On resurrection day, they are given an incorruptible, immortal body. In other words, for believers, the old body has been washed clean with the blood of Christ. It no great mystery.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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christianchat.com
#91
Evmur, Come on. No one can prepare themselves after they die. They had better be saved before they die. I don't know if you believe man consists of body, soul and spirit, I do. When the saved die, the soul and spirit go to be with the Lord. On resurrection day, they are given an incorruptible, immortal body. In other words, for believers, the old body has been washed clean with the blood of Christ. It no great mystery.
Yes but these fellows say if we are not ready and waiting we will miss Him.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
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#92
Thanks; appreciate your laying our your understanding.

??? My understanding is here:

Great GRACE Departure!
+
Evidence for Pre-Trib Rapture (K Lawson)

Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified In Christ,
Until we meet in "the air" or In His Great GloryLand! ♫ 😇 ↑

Amen.
Thank you GA I profoundly disagree with the pretribulation rapture.

Jesus said "after the tribulation of those days ... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory"
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,208
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#93
Thank you GA I profoundly disagree with the pretribulation rapture.

Jesus said "after the tribulation of those days ... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory"
Precious friend, you are very welcome; I strongly agree with the prophesied
Second Coming Of Christ, to the earth, for Israel!
+
I also profoundly agree with the Unprophesied "Revelation Of The Mystery,"
Containing... Great GRACE Departure [ Different Heavenly Event ] for me, as a
"member" Of ↑ The Body Of Christ! ↑
[ kinda difficult to ↑ disagree ↑ with about 100 Scriptures, eh? Did you
√√ Them All *, and then profoundly disagree With ALL Of Them? ]:

"Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness,​
which The Lord, The Righteous Judge, Shall Give me at That Day:​
and not to me only, but unto all them also that love His Appearing."​
(2 Timothy 4:8)​

Please Be Very Richly Encouraged, Edified, and Approved In Christ, And
His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! *

Amen.

* Rules 2 and 5 of Bible study Rules!

Study to Be APPROVED Open Bible.png
 
Dec 20, 2023
15
7
3
#94
Greetings - I am in the pretribulation rapture camp, one scripture I would direct your attention to is Rev 3:10 and then further, why are believers not mentioned again after this chapter.

Revelation 3:10
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
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#95
Precious friend, you are very welcome; I strongly agree with the prophesied
Second Coming Of Christ, to the earth, for Israel!
+
I also profoundly agree with the Unprophesied "Revelation Of The Mystery,"
Containing... Great GRACE Departure [ Different Heavenly Event ] for me, as a
"member" Of ↑ The Body Of Christ! ↑
[ kinda difficult to ↑ disagree ↑ with about 100 Scriptures, eh? Did you
√√ Them All *, and then profoundly disagree With ALL Of Them? ]:

"Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness,​
which The Lord, The Righteous Judge, Shall Give me at That Day:​
and not to me only, but unto all them also that love His Appearing."​
(2 Timothy 4:8)​

Please Be Very Richly Encouraged, Edified, and Approved In Christ, And
His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! *

Amen.

* Rules 2 and 5 of Bible study Rules!

View attachment 259041
I would like to discuss this with you in your customary polite way. Perhaps you could give the first 5 of your about 100 and see where we get. :)

2. Timothy 48. speaks not about the timing of His coming. We will ALL love His appearing. Perhaps tribulation will make us even more glad to see Him.
 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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#96
Greetings - I am in the pretribulation rapture camp, one scripture I would direct your attention to is Rev 3:10 and then further, why are believers not mentioned again after this chapter.

Revelation 3:10
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
Find me 20 Christians who have read Revelations and you will find 20 different interpretations.

The Great Tribulation is not God's Wrath. Tribulation comes from man, from the world, "in the world you will have great tribulation ..." again Paul says "through great tribulation must we enter the kingdom of God"

Tribulation is persecution and this persecution is the last great persecution when Antichrist [Paul says] will seek to destroy ALL religion and every expression of God. He will have great success too if success is an appropriate word for such diabolical work for he will seat himself in the temple of God proclaiming himself that he is God. He is destroyed by the coming and appearance of our Lord Jesus and by the breath of His nostrils.

The Lord will gather His church, Israel is already gathered into their homeland.

Then will God's wrath be poured out.
 

achduke7

Active member
Oct 3, 2023
102
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#97
Greetings - I am in the pretribulation rapture camp, one scripture I would direct your attention to is Rev 3:10 and then further, why are believers not mentioned again after this chapter.

Revelation 3:10
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
They are mentioned. They are called Saints. Also even the church in 3:10 is told to overcome.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
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#98
Greetings - I am in the pretribulation rapture camp, one scripture I would direct your attention to is Rev 3:10 and then further, why are believers not mentioned again after this chapter.

10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
Hi there! The believers are mentioned a lot after this. In this very verse, God is referring to His kids! Let’s read it again and see what He says to us (saints/Elect).

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth

What is the hour of temptation that the church of Philadelphia escapes? The hour of temptation is that "hour" when the Antichrist is here on earth claiming to be the Messiah. This doesn’t mean that the church is flying away anywhere. Not at all! Rather, this is saying that those with the “seal of God in their foreheads“ will not be taken in or deceived by Satan (the AC)—Christ even instructs Satan and his ”locust“ army in Rev. 9:4:
They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads.

Hey, we Christians will be all suited up in our Gospel armor, standing firm and “holding fast.” In Rev. 3:11-13, it is written: "Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." ' IMG_5750.gif
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#99
The Great Tribulation is not God's Wrath.
Well kindly read Matthew 24 again, and note that the Great Tribulation is A UNIQUE PERIOD OF TIME. In Rev 7 it is called in Greek "the tribulation, the great" which in English becomes the Great Tribulation. The trials and tribulations of Christians have been ongoing since the first century. So do not confuse the two.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,208
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Midwest
I would like to discuss this with you in your customary polite way. Perhaps you could give the first 5 of your about 100 and see where we get. :)
Precious friend, appreciate your Very Kind words. In previous years no one
wished to discuss this respectfully; they just critiqued with the usual "shabby theologian, garbage, nonsense, and rubbish" words, which really was getting .................................. old!
[ like you and me ↑ :ROFL: ].

'But now,' since you are willing to have a "refreshing discussion," I think we
should begin with a foundation first [ rule 1 BSR ], and see if we agree, or
if there is going to be a problem, ok? After all, without the Correct foundation,
the "building will crumble," eh? ie:
God Has Two Different programs:​

God's earthly Prophecy / Covenants / Law Program, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation) Timeframe?:

Scripture # 1:

"Then shall the King say unto them on His Right Hand, Come, ye blessed​
of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation
of the world" (Matthew 25:34)​

Scripture # 2:

"Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and Redeemed His​
people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of His​
servant David; As He Spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have​
been since the world began" (Luke 1:68-70)​

Scripture # 3:

"Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all​
things, which God Hath Spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets​
since the world began." (Acts 3:21)​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!) Another Timeframe?:

Scripture # 4:

"According as He Hath Chosen us In Him before the foundation
of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before​
Him In Love" (Ephesians 1:4)​
Scripture # 5:

"Who Hath Saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not​
according to our works, but According To His Own Purpose and​
Grace, Which Was Given us In Christ Jesus before the world began"​

Please pardon The [ Extra ] Scriptures For The Body Of Christ, to
Complete 'the Important point' of This Solid Foundation!:

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9)

-------------------------------------------------

Thus, God Has Two Different programs For Two Different 'groups',
with TWO different 'Timeframes', Ending in Different destinations!

Precious friend, @Evmur, what think ye?

Also, should we start a new thread ( for the remaining 90 Scriptures ) without
interruptions, so us old geezers don't get lost, dead and buried in this one?
♫ 😇 ↑

to be continued...