Daniel 9 Already Fulfilled

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TheDivineWatermark

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#161
Aug 3, 2018
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#161
^ and as I see it, the following passage corresponds with the mentioning of "sun" and "moon" matters in Matt24:29-30 / Mk13:24...

where Isaiah 24 (as part of what is commonly called "the little apocalypse": chpts 24-27) says,


21In that day the LORD will punish [1]

the host of heaven above

and the kings of the earth below. [COMPARE with Rev19:19/16:14-16/20:5 at the time of His Second Coming to earth]

22They will be gathered together

like prisoners in a pit.

They will be confined to a dungeon

and punished [2] after many days. [i.e. at the LATER "GWTj" time slot, well after His Second Coming to the earth]

23The moon will be confounded

and the sun will be ashamed;

for the LORD of Hosts will reign

on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem,

and before His elders with great glory.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#162
Jun 30, 2015
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#162
Nehemiah6 said:
The "obvious" interpretation
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You would do well do dispense with the dismissive comments. There is no need to bleed your arrogance all over the forum.

Nehemiah6 said:
-- in view of what Christ says immediately after that -- is that the Abomination of Desolation will stand in the Holy Place of a FUTURE TEMPLE in Jerusalem (since He had already prophesied about the destruction of the existing temple). Then He tied in the Great Tribulation to this event. Which means that Christ Himself indicated (indirectly) that there is a gap between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel.
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Since many readers don't share your conclusion, this is not "obvious".
 
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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#163
Aug 3, 2018
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#163
Ted01 said:
I have heard different views on the great tribulation... people seem to be discussing some of them, here in this thread.

The three views, that I've heard the most are:
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- Some say that it's an age long time of suffering of the Jews that basically started around 70AD.

-Some say that it comes as a future event, after the rapture of the church, and lasts for 7 years.
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-Others say that it starts 3.5 years after the rapture

All camps have Scripture that they say support their view. Also, I have heard that there are a few more views, (within mainstream Christianity), but I can't remember them.
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Consider the bottom portion of my Post #153 :) - https://christianchat.com/threads/daniel-9-already-fulfilled.213321/post-5203459

(the time-period I mention in that section--"a time, times, and half a time"[etc]--is the same time period as "the GREAT tribulation," that is, it follows the "abomination of desolation" point in the chronology--meaning, a specific number of days are yet remaining until Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19)








[consider also that, in Rev7, "the 144,000" servants of our God, of one nation/Israel (vv.3-4 [note also 1:1 "unto his servants"]), is set in contradistinction to the "a great multitude... of all the nations" of vv.9,14, in the same chapter, of whom it is said these are they who are "coming out-of the great tribulation"... and the reason is, that they (the two groups) had existed on the earth during the same time frame, i.e. in (what we call) the trib]
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#165
Dec 18, 2021
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#165
GaryA said:
Sorry - I was in a hurry to get off of CC last night - I had some IRL things to do...

I highly recommend the King James Version.
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The KJV actually supports me better, Thank you

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

Where does sacrifice and burnt offering take place? Yes, the most holy place

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

What is It? Of course, it is where the sacrifice and burnt offering takes place. or the "wing of the temple" or the "most holy place"

What is this called? An abomination that makes desolate.

Thank you for helping support my view
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#166
Dec 18, 2021
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#166
GaryA said:
Yes way - when Jerusalem was being surrounded by armies... ;)

(in 67 A.D. - right before all of the Christians headed for/to the mountains)
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so they could see INSIDE the Holy place of the temple?

How could they see this?
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#167
Dec 18, 2021
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#167
GaryA said:
But, that is the problem - you can't just give something 5 seconds worth of thought and then shoot it down - you have to seriously consider all that is presented to you (which cannot be done in a few minutes or a few posts) long enough for/until it makes sense.
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I have been studying this for a few decades.

Alot more than 5 minutes..


You will not listen long enough...
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all anyone has to do is show me HOW people could see INSIDE the HOLY place of the temple in 70 AD

Jesus said "when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet STANDING in the HOLY PLACE....

It should not take you 2 minutes to explain it to me

yours
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My mind is wide open.. If you can convince me by showing me anything that makes sense. then I will listen.

I have not seen it yet.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#169
Dec 18, 2021
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#169
TheDivineWatermark said:
And as I understand it, the phrase "And then [kai tote]" never carries the meaning of a lengthy period of time, but more like (as we would say today) "and consequently" or "and following on the heels of that, _____ [this and such]"

--Matt24:[29,]30(2x);

--Mk13:[24-25,]26,27





[see also its use in 2Th2:7b-8a, for example]
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Yes,

and then he shall be cut off. this occured immediately following his introduction on Good Friday is a good example..
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#170
Dec 18, 2021
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#170
Dino246 said:
You would do well do dispense with the dismissive comments. There is no need to bleed your arrogance all over the forum.


Since many readers don't share your conclusion, this is not "obvious".
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some people. even if I agree with them, I just will not respond to our at them..
 
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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#175
Aug 3, 2018
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#175
jb said:
NO!

The Lord Jesus teaches that it occurs three and a half years before His 2nd Coming!
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Dino246 said:
On what scriptural basis do you make this claim?
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If I may,

in my Post #153 (pg 8), bottom portion of that post, a post I had addressed to you, I began to lay out part of the reasonings as to why the "times, a time, and half a time" [and similar] refers to a very specific set of 1260 days which lead up to and end at Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19, rather than to some "near-2000-yrs" that the Historicist viewpoint insists it refers to;

and in my Post #163 (pg 9 here), addressed to Ted01 (first portion of that post), I explain a little further, to this same point.




So, basically, by a careful comparison of all relating passages (Dan9, 11-12, 7; Revelation; the Olivet Discourse [esp. Matt24:4-25-end / Mk13:5-end; and where Matt24:4/Mk13:5 correspond with 1Th5:1-3's reference to the INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]"]; and 2Th2:3b-9a esp--ALL of which are covering the "7-year period [/'ONE WEEK']": its BEGINNING-, its MIDDLE-, and its END-points (of those "2520 days")--one can become aware that there are [is] indeed a very specific set of 1260 days [what we commonly call the 3.5 yrs (i.e. the second half)] BETWEEN the "AOD" and Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19


Hope that helps. = )

(If anything I put in this post [or the other posts I refer back to] requires further clarification, I'm happy to try to elaborate and explain :) )
 
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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#178
Aug 3, 2018
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#178
Yahshua said:
- Futurism = All endtime prophecies will be fulfilled in the future after a gap period called the church age.
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Acts 3:21 - "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age."


If it just didn't have that word "TIMES" in there, it could basically mean, "until the fulfillment of all prophecies" are completed (i.e. Historicism); but it does have the word "times" in there...

...and so this Acts 3:21 verse is referring to the "TIMES [of]" which will be kicked into motion the moment Jesus does the "shall descend" thing, FOR "the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR" thing (which is when we/'the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY' will experience the "so shall we ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord" thing and the 1Th3:13 "before [G1715 - in the presence of] the God and Father of us" thing [UP THERE; see Rev4:4, and 5:9 "hast redeemed US... out-of EVERY..." [said UP THERE ;) , and as already-awarded persons, at that point--what Paul had said would occur "IN THAT DAY"--not after or upon his/our "death")])... so much more could be said, on this :)






[oh yes... and one more thing... the "UNTIL" in Acts 3:21 ^ corresponds with so many other "UNTIL" passages which relate to the same matter (under discussion, top quote-box)... "UNTIL" Rom11:25[,15]... "UNTIL" Hos5:14-6:3... "UNTIL" Micah5:3... "UNTIL" Matt23:39... etc etc...]
 
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