Ever wonder Why?….

Before God could offer salvation to the world the penalty for the sins of the whole world ("the SIN of the world") needed to be paid. Only Christ -- the Lamb of God -- could pay that penalty in full, and only Christ could then rise again from the dead. Only Christ could "take away" the sin of the world.

That is not strictly true. Even though God knows all things , God did in fact plan -- predetermine -- the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (Acts 2:23). So not only was God's foreknowledge involved, but there was a "determinate counsel" (a plan of salvation) within the Godhead, and God predetermined (foreordained) the crucifixion of Christ from BEFORE the foundation of the world: But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you (1 Peter 1:19,20)

I see this as a kind of contingency plan made by God in advance. Had Adam and Eve loved and obeyed God, there would be no need for the sacrifice of our Lord.

I believe it was God’s hope, that mankind could love and obey freely and willingly. God knew that if Adam and Eve could not be trusted, in what seems to be a fairly trivial disobedience, ( eating from the tree of knowledge) this would lead to the mayhem we see today.

Thanks for the link.
When it comes to things divine, our human words and understanding seem inadequate. I Absolutely agree with you, Jesus was not plan B. His death and resurrection were planned before creation began. If God was going to create us in the greatest good way possible, to love us as he loves himself, it comes with the risk, that we will not love God in the same way. Adam and Eve needed freedom to Love and obey God willingly.

Trying to understand the meaning and purpose of plan A, is a challenge. Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven. Whether we obeyed or disobeyed God, it was always going to end in the way God intended. We struggle with the bit in the middle – our life on Earth.

i'm going to look into that. up until now, i haven't seen anything that says God had to "think" of this or that. but as i said, i'm going to check in to it. thanks nehemiah6.

It is not about "God had to think" but about "God made a plan". Do you seriously think that God did not plan out the universe in fine detail before He brought it into existence? There is MATHEMATICAL PRECISION in every part of the universe.

I think I follow what your trying to say in the thread, but God is adamant that he did not create evil or sin, and I think we should not word it like that just because context is difficult, I think what your meaning is He did allow sin and evil to be in the world? which I would agree with.

I think when you follow the logic through, God knew we were going to be sinners, He knew Adam was going to sin, He could have made things so that Adam was not going to sin, but did not, and then as soon as I point out God must have wanted sin in the world people go into conniptions, as if I have slandered God.

Witnessing to people a common theme I run into is they dont like the God of the bible, a God who allows so much pain and death to happen to people, a God who allows children to starve and die, and violence to overtake good people, especially when loved ones are taken from them, when hearing these sentiments I actually agree with them that God does indeed allow it to happen, and apparently it surprises them as others just argue the point, I point out I can understand their animosity towards me as Im a representative of God whom they are angry with, which alot of the time gets me a foot in the door to explain how I see things and how on the other side of the coin God does also hate death and sin, which then leads on to the sharing of the gospel sometimes.

All I wanted to point out is even non Christians see God as sovereign and in charge of everything including allowing sin and death in the world even if its subluminal, yet some Christians seem to me go into denial mode, as if their loving God would not allow such atrocities to happen and come up with lots of other reasons like it must be because Satan and his cohorts are causing it all etc etc Of course if they could get things to happen under Gods nose that He did not allow then they are elevating Satan and lessening God.

He is the Potter we are the clay we have to accept His ways as righteous for even if we dont comprehend why He does what He does we know they are.

Anyway I see the tree of knowledge as a real tree but figurative in the fact that it was the disobedience that opened Adams and Eves eyes, in other words it could have been a stone of knowledge and God could have commanded Adam not to pick the stone up! Adam who had no sin nature could not disobey Gods command unless there is a countermand from another source (which God allows planned to happen) and once Adam had a choice and disobeyed by picking up the stone, now the realisation of Doing what God says or not is now an innate choice, they now know they can do good or evil. Of course the tree and fruit have more figurative meaning throughout the bible so its the best representation and Im just using a stone trying to explain how I see it.

Anyway interesting topic, and interesting questions for I seem to enjoy hearing others thoughts about them

God is not behind sin or temptation. Whatever age you have arrived at has not been sufficient for you to grasp that and a few other things you believe that are extra biblical.

God did not create evil.

Oh but you did. Here are some of the things you have said regarding evil.

"Lafftur, post: 5099536, member: 254930"]The Truth is that God DID create evil and it is GOOD that He did

"Lafftur, post: 5100067, member: 254930"]It was GOOD that God created evil because it gave us a CHOICE.

"Lafftur, post: 5100067, member: 254930"]It was GOOD that God created evil because it gave us a CHOICE.

"Lafftur, post: 5100113, member: 254930"]God created evil for OUR GOOD

"Lafftur, post: 5100097, member: 254930"]God created Evil for our GOOD.

You state that everything God made was good (which is biblical) but then you also declare over and over that God created evil.

That, is YOU saying that evil is good because God created it.

"Lafftur, post: 5099536, member: 254930"]Everything God made is good and has been made for His Plan and Purposes.

I don't think you understand the repercussions of saying God created evil.

Where did God say everything I have created is good, except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That thing is evil. Nowhere. That is simply not in the Bible. You seem to be taking more and more liberty with what scripture actually states. That, is opening the door for even more error and wrong teaching.

So it seems you are saying woe to God. You sure are confused.

I would not normally continue in a thread where the op was so dead set on being right the more they got things wrong, but in this case I persist because the belief that God created evil is egregious to the point it can alter a person's perception and understanding of their Creator.

We have a small taste of that right here in this post by the op who is now stating that the tree God created was evil when the Bible states EVERYTHING God created He called good.

This brings us back to the fact that saying God created evil is calling evil good. Which a blind person can understand to be a lie that may cause people to respond 'then sin is not really my fault. God caused it.'

Does anyone else see the progression in error here? It is becoming more noticeable IMO.

"Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone." James 1:13

I quoted what you posted. I don't think at this point, that you are actually participating in a way that induces actual thought on your part.

You are all over the place and you can deny what you said, but anyone can read what you said. This idea of yours that God created evil does not come from the Holy Spirit.

Evil came through listening to the devil, the father of all lies, and disobeying God. You on the other hand, believe that God is responsible for evil and therefor responsible for sin.

You just do not seem able to think things through or perhaps you just prefer your own personal interpretations. When someone has concluded that their error is correct over and over and over as you have, in spite of biblical evidence to the contrary, I think we should let them enjoy the fruit of those grave errors.

I am wondering how much would change in your world if you admitted your error. Perhaps you would have to change other beliefs as well. God knows. You seem very flippant in your attitude towards believing something that changes the character of God.

You attribute evil to God and that is not excusable and needs to be addressed.