Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

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Kidron

Kidron

Banned
#81
Feb 16, 2017
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#81
Jackson123 said:
So if we only believe Jesus is God but not love Him and not obey His teaching, we lust like devil and not save
Click to expand...

Think of it like this..

If you try to keep the commandments and be a good person, and live in Church, and have a big bible, and a Jesus pin, and on your car you have a tag that says "Jesus".
So, you are doing all the Jesus Stuff. All the "christian stuff".

Are you saved?
Are you?
You are doing all the works, and the deeds, and the "christian behavior".......so, does this save you?
Are you going to heaven because you are trying to "be like Christ?
= NOPE
NOPE
NO.

why not?
Because your Deeds, are just your deeds., and your deeds can resolve your sin issue.
You just remain a sinner trying to be a good person.
God does not accept your behavior to accept you. He only accepts Himself dying on the Cross for you......to accept you.
This means.......that what can't save you to begin with, can't cause you to lose your salvation, if you dont do it.
 
Kidron

Kidron

Banned
#82
Feb 16, 2017
1,037
285
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#82
Jackson123 said:
So obidience needed if not you fallen from Grace am I correct?
Click to expand...
Trying to keep yourself saved, proves that you are not trusting in Christ. That is to "fall from Grace"

If you believe you can lose your salvation, then you dont understand the Grace of God, or the Blood of Jesus, or the Cross.

Salvation is not Temporary.
Once you are born again, you are always born again.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#83
Apr 7, 2014
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#83
Jackson123 said:
In other word the saved not murder, robing etc
Or obedience is need for salvation

Simple exemple
Jesus require you to believe in Him to be save
If you obey and believe than you save if not you not save

So need obifience for salvation

The problem is some people think believe mean only believe that Jesus God and no need to believe His teaching. That is wrong

Believe is also believe His teaching, love Him with all your heath and will produce love your fellow man

Devil believe Jesus is God
Devil watch Jesus die on the cross
Devil watch and believe Jesus risen from the death
What devil lack is he hate Jesus and not agree with His teaching

So if we only believe Jesus is God but not love Him and not obey His teaching, we lust like devil and not save
Click to expand...
In Galatians 5:19-21 we see a similar list of sins/works of the flesh and Paul goes on to say that those who ‘practice’ such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. This is ‘descriptive’ of those who are unrighteous. Obeying the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that saves. (Romans 1:16; 10:16) Believe unto salvation goes beyond merely believing “mental assent” that Jesus is God and that His death, burial and resurrection “happened” Even the demons believe that. *We must also trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, which the demons do not trust in Christ for salvation. Their trust is in Satan. Also, another problem is people basically define believe as works and the end result is salvation by works.
 
Yahshua

Yahshua

Senior Member
#84
Sep 22, 2013
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#84
Kidron said:
Notice this...."Christ has redeemed US (the born again) from the CURSE of the Law".

So, when a deceived believer tries to ....."ok, now im saved.....where are those commandments and law, here i come",..... then you returning to the "old covenant",, where MOSES LAW and Commandments were found.
You are trying to go back under the law and return to the CURSE, when Christ has "redeemed us from the CURSE of the Law'".
When you do that... Paul says this about you.
"who has BEWITCHED YOU< that you no longer OBEY THE TRUTH."""""
He then defines you as.....>"Fallen from Grace"......."in the flesh"
Click to expand...
No.

The CURSE of the Law does NOT mean "the accursed Law" or "the curse of having the law", as if the law is the curse. No. It means "The Law's Curse".

The Law's curse = The Law's consequence = The Law's punishment = The payment owed to the Law = Death for breaking the law.

Paul was talking about the punishment. Christ has freed us from Death. Christ has not freed us from His own Law. HE gave the Law to Moses.

They performed sacrifices when they broke the law because death was required. They performed cleaning rites and rituals because they were unclean (iniquitous) after breaking the law. Christ came to completed these tasks. When he completed these tasks they were no longer necessary for us to perform (sacrifice, death, rites, rituals) after we break the law, we simply need to go to the throne and ask for forgiveness and help to do better so we don't continue to break the law. The Galatians were returning to THE TASKS in error.

But after Christ has cleaned and paid for us we are expected not to break the law anymore, and are given the gifts to achieve that.

If believers are not saying "where are those commandments" after faith in Messiah, they are deceived to remain where they were at the point of confession, never growing in sanctification, and do not bear any fruit.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#85
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#85
Kidron said:
Think of it like this..

If you try to keep the commandments and be a good person, and live in Church, and have a big bible, and a Jesus pin, and on your car you have a tag that says "Jesus".
So, you are doing all the Jesus Stuff. All the "christian stuff".

Are you saved?
Are you?
You are doing all the works, and the deeds, and the "christian behavior".......so, does this save you?
Are you going to heaven because you are trying to "be like Christ?
= NOPE
NOPE
NO.

why not?
Because your Deeds, are just your deeds., and your deeds can resolve your sin issue.
You just remain a sinner trying to be a good person.
God does not accept your behavior to accept you. He only accepts Himself dying on the Cross for you......to accept you.
This means.......that what can't save you to begin with, can't cause you to lose your salvation, if you dont do it.
Click to expand...
So you believe no matter what you do like murder raping etc you save because you redeemed by His blood?
Don’t repent needed?
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#86
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#86
mailmandan said:
In Galatians 5:19-21 we see a similar list of sins/works of the flesh and Paul goes on to say that those who ‘practice’ such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. This is ‘descriptive’ of those who are unrighteous. Obeying the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that saves. (Romans 1:16; 10:16) Believe unto salvation goes beyond merely believing “mental assent” that Jesus is God and that His death, burial and resurrection “happened” Even the demons believe that. *We must also trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, which the demons do not trust in Christ for salvation. Their trust is in Satan. Also, another problem is people basically define believe as works and the end result is salvation by works.
Click to expand...
Yep though we still fall in son
 
H

HisKid

Banned
#87
Jul 28, 2021
1,226
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#87
Jackson123 said:
So you believe no matter what you do like murder raping etc you save because you redeemed by His blood?
Don’t repent needed?
Click to expand...
After you murder someone, what does repentance look like? Is it sorrow?
 
Kidron

Kidron

Banned
#88
Feb 16, 2017
1,037
285
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#88
Yahshua said:
No.
The CURSE of the Law does NOT mean "the accursed Law" or "the curse of having the law", as if the law is the curse. No. It means "The Law's Curse".
Click to expand...

Notice these.......

"you are no longer under THE LAW, you are UNDER GRACE".

"Christ has redeemed you from the CURSE of the Law".

"The Power of SIN........is THE LAW".

""For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."""""


Notice this now.....""""who walk not after the flesh, but AFTER the Spirit".

See that?

That does not mean....>"try to not sin" and "Keep the commandments"""

To Walk NOT AFTER the Flesh, but AFTER the Spirit", means to have become "DEAD to THE LAW," but "ALIVE TO CHRIST".

See that " Alive TO CHRIST"?

This means '....."in Christ"....

It means that we are no longer a part of the old covenant .. because we have been born again into the Kingdom of God, as a "new Creation" IN CHRIST.

So, all the born again, EXIT, "AFTER the Spirit".......or in Spiritual Union with God, as "ONE with God"< "In Christ".

This means that the born again, are born again INTO the Spirit of GOD, by the Spirit of God.

The born again now exist here......""""As Jesus IS.....so are the born again, IN THIS WORLD".""

This means that the born again have become= "The Righteousness of God, IN Christ"., which is why the born again are defined as a "NEW CREATION".

The born again are not saved sinners, trying to keep commandments, hoping to stay out of hell...........THEY are IN CHRIST having been """"made Righteous"""", forever.

The born again, exist as having the same righteousness as God, because we have received ..."THE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS"", Which become who we ARE.......Its our Spiritual existence, as a "SON of God".
All God's SON's are as righteous as God or they are not a "Son".

This is what it means to """walk AFTER the Spirit"""........It means to have become joined to God's Spirit, in Spiritual Union. = "born again"
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#90
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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113
#90
Kidron said:
Romans 4:8
Click to expand...
Roman 4
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[a]

That verse is not stand alone brother the Lord forgive if we repent

If not than this the same apostle that wrote that verse also wrote this

1 for 6

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#91
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#91
Kidron said:
Notice these.......

"you are no longer under THE LAW, you are UNDER GRACE".

"Christ has redeemed you from the CURSE of the Law".

"The Power of SIN........is THE LAW".

""For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."""""


Notice this now.....""""who walk not after the flesh, but AFTER the Spirit".

See that?

That does not mean....>"try to not sin" and "Keep the commandments"""

To Walk NOT AFTER the Flesh, but AFTER the Spirit", means to have become "DEAD to THE LAW," but "ALIVE TO CHRIST".

See that " Alive TO CHRIST"?

This means '....."in Christ"....

It means that we are no longer a part of the old covenant .. because we have been born again into the Kingdom of God, as a "new Creation" IN CHRIST.

So, all the born again, EXIT, "AFTER the Spirit".......or in Spiritual Union with God, as "ONE with God"< "In Christ".

This means that the born again, are born again INTO the Spirit of GOD, by the Spirit of God.

The born again now exist here......""""As Jesus IS.....so are the born again, IN THIS WORLD".""

This means that the born again have become= "The Righteousness of God, IN Christ"., which is why the born again are defined as a "NEW CREATION".

The born again are not saved sinners, trying to keep commandments, hoping to stay out of hell...........THEY are IN CHRIST having been """"made Righteous"""", forever.

The born again, exist as having the same righteousness as God, because we have received ..."THE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS"", Which become who we ARE.......Its our Spiritual existence, as a "SON of God".
All God's SON's are as righteous as God or they are not a "Son".

This is what it means to """walk AFTER the Spirit"""........It means to have become joined to God's Spirit, in Spiritual Union. = "born again"
Click to expand...
We are under grace if we repent. If we keep rob the bank, we are fallen from the grace isn't it?
 
Kidron

Kidron

Banned
#92
Feb 16, 2017
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285
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#92
Jackson123 said:
We are under grace if we repent. If we keep rob the bank, we are fallen from the grace isn't it?
Click to expand...
Fallen from grace is when you believe you stay saved by being good.
 
Kidron

Kidron

Banned
#93
Feb 16, 2017
1,037
285
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#93
Jackson123 said:
That verse is not stand alone brother the Lord forgive if we repent

.
Click to expand...
Salvation is not ......"I have to get God to save me again.......i have to get God to forgive me again, and again and again, by confessing and repenting"....

Salvation is God on the Cross, shedding Blood and dying ONE TIME, 2000 yrs ago..... and its by this one time eternal sacrifice that all who are born again, have become "made righteous".....>"One with God".... "In Christ".
Paul says that if you are born again, then your old sinful man is "crucified with Christ" and your Spirit is risen in New Life, eternally, as a "new Creation" in Christ.

You dont repent and confess to keep that.., as becoming a Son of God is not based on how you behave.
Its based on What God did as Christ on the Cross, so that BY this FREE "gift of Salvation", and "gift of Righteousness", you BECAME a Son of God, "born again".......if you are born again and not just water baptized thinking you are born again.
You dont stop being a Son of God because of your behavior,...... anymore then God saved you to begin with by your Behavior.

Salvation is only based on what God did on the Cross for you to accept you, and never is this based on how you behave.
 
Kidron

Kidron

Banned
#94
Feb 16, 2017
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285
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#94
Jackson123 said:
R

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Click to expand...

We dont keep ourselves saved by confessing and repenting, which is what you are trying to prove.

See, in your theology....... you believe that the blood of Jesus is only as good as you are..
So, if you dont do all that stuff on that list of sins you just posted, then by not doing all that, you keep yourself saved is what you believe saves you.
When you try to keep yourself saved by THAT self effort, then you have no real faith in Christ to get you to heaven.
The term for this type of faith in self......is Self Saver. = Legalist

The blood atonement, and the Cross of Christ given as "the GIFT of Salvation", is why you will go to heaven.
Whereas......If you are trying to get there by confessing sin, so that God will CONTINUE to accept you, based on your lifestyle and behavior, ....then you have either not understood the finished work of Jesus of the Cross, or you are fallen from Grace.

Lets find out.

Do you believe that the blood of Jesus that saved you, keeps you saved, no matter what?
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#95
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#95
Jackson123 said:
We are born again, no longer under the law

If we rob the bank the law/police no longer have the right to arrest us?
Is that possible born again person not change/if he was robber, his body keep doing robing the bank only his spirit one with the Lord?
Click to expand...
This is something Christians must understand. Their actions bring about certain results in this life, good actions brings on good rewards in this life, bad actions bring on bad results. This is completely apart from the actions of the Lord in our spiritual life.

God will forgive the bank robber, but he will still need to go to jail to pay in this life for his actions. God will give him eternal life because he repented and asked for forgiveness, that is completely apart from the rewards and punishments of our bodily life.

The Lord created the world to work with order both the physical and spiritual world, the Lord wants us to live eternally with Him that is why God arranged forgiveness for us. God is also interested in us living well in the physical world, to love and not hate so we live in abundance and order physically.

Love is the core of all of it. God is love, all that we learn of God and of His laws both physical and spiritual, is like clauses in a sentence where the main subject is love.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#96
Feb 6, 2014
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#96
Kidron said:
theology....... you believe that the blood of Jesus is only as good as you are..
Click to expand...
No, God's blood is away better than me, but to be forgiven require repent, believe in His teaching and love Him.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#97
Feb 6, 2014
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#97
Blik said:
God will forgive the bank robber, but he will still need to go to jail to pay in this life for his actions. God will give him eternal life because he repented and asked for forgiveness, that is completely apart from the rewards and punishments of our bodily life
Click to expand...
And need repent, stop robing and love the Lord
 
Kidron

Kidron

Banned
#99
Feb 16, 2017
1,037
285
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#99
Jackson123 said:
No, God's blood is away better than me, but to be forgiven require repent, believe in His teaching and love Him.
Click to expand...
If you are not already forgiven, 2000 yrs ago, then you are not forgiven at all.

Salvation is not...."Jesus started it, now let be confess my way into heaven".

Let me show you something beautiful.
The blood of Jesus, is the reason that God accepts a person. And this same blood, that 2000 yrs after it was shed, is still saving people tomorrow, is the same blood that keeps a believer, as "the righteousness of God, in Christ".

You can't by confessing sin, compete with the Blood Atonement found on the Cross.

Trying to "stay saved" by works or deeds or confessing and repenting is a FAIL, and what is worse, is that its a person trying to replace the blood of Jesus by self effort.
That's legalism.
 
Kidron

Kidron

Banned
#100
Feb 16, 2017
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#100
Jackson123 said:
So you believe keep robing the bank not fallen from the grace?
Click to expand...
That is a work of the flesh.
Its not different then watching Netflix, and you know the program is going to have sex in it.
Or you rent a movie and you know its going to have sex in it.

See, you are trying to rate bad behavior as proof that a person can't be a Christian......>"if you do this, then that means you are not saved"., which is to try to believe that by being good enough, you get to keep your salvation.

Being "fallen from Grace" is a FAITH issue.
Its losing faith in Christ to keep you saved.
 
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