Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?
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As a "reporter" of the Bible, that's what my Bibles state. Those who increase in obedience, these are the Children of God.
I was baptized and proclaimed Faith when I was 12 years old. I knew nothing about sin at that point in my life. In many respects, I was much more Pure than I was at age 49 (the year my Transformation began). But by the time I was 49, I was living at the bottom of alcohol bottles and loved strip clubs. I had a serious, serious sexual addiction problem . . . I was obsessed with having sex. I believed that I was Truly saved, thinking that "nothing could separate me from the Love of God." What I didn't understand is that I hadn't yet experienced the Indwelling Love of God. So, if the Holy Spirit was not within me, how could I be separated from Him?
Once my Transformation began, I slowly began to change more and more and more. To date, I have very little sin in my life and I take absolutely no credit for it whatsoever. I have been incredibly disciplined by God. I have suffered beyond imagination, and all of that suffering caused me to stop sinning. My Father in Heaven Loves me, thus the discipline, and I was changed from the inside out. This is the Work of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is not the work of myself, lest I should boast about what I had done for myself.
I was baptized and proclaimed Faith when I was 12 years old. I knew nothing about sin at that point in my life. In many respects, I was much more Pure than I was at age 49 (the year my Transformation began). But by the time I was 49, I was living at the bottom of alcohol bottles and loved strip clubs. I had a serious, serious sexual addiction problem . . . I was obsessed with having sex. I believed that I was Truly saved, thinking that "nothing could separate me from the Love of God." What I didn't understand is that I hadn't yet experienced the Indwelling Love of God. So, if the Holy Spirit was not within me, how could I be separated from Him?
Once my Transformation began, I slowly began to change more and more and more. To date, I have very little sin in my life and I take absolutely no credit for it whatsoever. I have been incredibly disciplined by God. I have suffered beyond imagination, and all of that suffering caused me to stop sinning. My Father in Heaven Loves me, thus the discipline, and I was changed from the inside out. This is the Work of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is not the work of myself, lest I should boast about what I had done for myself.
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No. I was eventually saved because Jesus Circumcised my Heart of the Sinful Nature. No one can be saved unless Jesus cuts out the Sin Nature from their Heart. Be sure to read the Scripture below. You sure replied fast to the last message, so honor me with reading all that I write. Thank you.
Colossians 2:11-15 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."
Colossians 2:11-15 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."
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Think of it like a court. We are standing before the judge and we are guilty of Sin. Satan tells the judge that the just requirement is death, because sin = death. Satan is also guilty of sin and should die but if God lets humans off He should also let Satan off and the law that sin = death is no longer valid.
We truly deserve death, but we have Jesus in our corner and He steps forward and tells the Judge that He well pay for our sin. God accepts it and we are free from the guilt and punishment of sin. the law is still valid and Satan is still able to be justly or fairly destroyed.
God is Judge and Jesus' blood can pay for all the sins of all the people that have ever lived but not everyone is saved. So each case is presented individually and the blood of Jesus is only used for those that accept and have faith in His grace. It is more then just understanding Gods grace because even the demons understand the Gospel.
We are not saved by our works or obedience, it is never good enough. But will Jesus give His blood to save those that do not want to obey and desire to disobey?
If people desire to disobey and Jesus allows them to live in Heaven and obedience is the only way to live, those people will feel out of place and hate living there. Rest and peace and joy comes from being close to Jesus, disobedience causes unrest and war and unhappiness. Heaven = obedience.
We need to commit to obey now because it will be too late after Jesus comes.
Psa_119:115 Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.
Pro_7:2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.
Ecc_12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Dan_9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
Mat_19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
We are not saved by being obedient to the law but faith in Jesus does not make the law void or mean that we can continue in sin.
Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
We truly deserve death, but we have Jesus in our corner and He steps forward and tells the Judge that He well pay for our sin. God accepts it and we are free from the guilt and punishment of sin. the law is still valid and Satan is still able to be justly or fairly destroyed.
God is Judge and Jesus' blood can pay for all the sins of all the people that have ever lived but not everyone is saved. So each case is presented individually and the blood of Jesus is only used for those that accept and have faith in His grace. It is more then just understanding Gods grace because even the demons understand the Gospel.
We are not saved by our works or obedience, it is never good enough. But will Jesus give His blood to save those that do not want to obey and desire to disobey?
If people desire to disobey and Jesus allows them to live in Heaven and obedience is the only way to live, those people will feel out of place and hate living there. Rest and peace and joy comes from being close to Jesus, disobedience causes unrest and war and unhappiness. Heaven = obedience.
We need to commit to obey now because it will be too late after Jesus comes.
Psa_119:115 Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.
Pro_7:2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.
Ecc_12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Dan_9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
Mat_19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
We are not saved by being obedient to the law but faith in Jesus does not make the law void or mean that we can continue in sin.
Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
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Salvation by grace but trough faith
Like Noah, he save by grace of information but Noah had to respon with faith Noah believe the information that god will float the earth than he respon by built an arch, store food etc
if Noah not obey and not build an arch, logically speaking he will die under water
Like Noah, he save by grace of information but Noah had to respon with faith Noah believe the information that god will float the earth than he respon by built an arch, store food etc
if Noah not obey and not build an arch, logically speaking he will die under water
You explain so very well.
Hitler was an extreme case. We know he was not saved no matter what he believed by looking at his deeds. We know a saved person would never order humans killed, and sin in sin in God's eyes. His sins were just so extreme we all know of them.
Paul pointed out it isn't what we do, it isn't our actions but it is our intent. Romans 7:14-25,
Hitler was an extreme case. We know he was not saved no matter what he believed by looking at his deeds. We know a saved person would never order humans killed, and sin in sin in God's eyes. His sins were just so extreme we all know of them.
Paul pointed out it isn't what we do, it isn't our actions but it is our intent. Romans 7:14-25,
"obedience" would be to do the "work of God"...... what is the work? "the work of God is that you BELIEVE on Jesus, whom God sent".
This results in becoming born again, ... "made righteous".....having become "One with God in Christ"
The born again become this. = "As Jesus IS, so are the born again, IN This World".
And that is not caused by our discipleship, its caused by being born again.
We become a "Son of God", having done no works no discipleship, nothing, as Salvation is all of God.
We then do this...."take up our cross", "deny ourselves", "present our body a living sacrifice"....as our discipleship.
However..
You can do that, and not be born again.....
This results in becoming born again, ... "made righteous".....having become "One with God in Christ"
The born again become this. = "As Jesus IS, so are the born again, IN This World".
And that is not caused by our discipleship, its caused by being born again.
We become a "Son of God", having done no works no discipleship, nothing, as Salvation is all of God.
We then do this...."take up our cross", "deny ourselves", "present our body a living sacrifice"....as our discipleship.
However..
You can do that, and not be born again.....
Im saying this.
We are a Spirit, that lives in a body, that has a soul.
The soul is the : mind, will, and emotions.
The body is dying, and will be replaced by a NEW Body.
The Spirit, is the REAL us......We are born again Spiritually, having been joined to God's Spirit, by God's Holy Spirit.
We are born again, INTO the Spirit of God, by the Holy Spirit. So, its our SPIRIT that is born again, not the body, and not the mind.
THis is why Paul tells us to RENEW our mind....
So, our Spirit, that is born again, exists as "in Christ", and "ONE with God"...
Paul said our "old man" is "crucified with Christ" and to "reckon it dead"..
We , the born again, are "no longer under the law, but under Grace".
So, where there is no law, there is no sin...... imputed. = Romans 4:8
We are a Spirit, that lives in a body, that has a soul.
The soul is the : mind, will, and emotions.
The body is dying, and will be replaced by a NEW Body.
The Spirit, is the REAL us......We are born again Spiritually, having been joined to God's Spirit, by God's Holy Spirit.
We are born again, INTO the Spirit of God, by the Holy Spirit. So, its our SPIRIT that is born again, not the body, and not the mind.
THis is why Paul tells us to RENEW our mind....
So, our Spirit, that is born again, exists as "in Christ", and "ONE with God"...
Paul said our "old man" is "crucified with Christ" and to "reckon it dead"..
We , the born again, are "no longer under the law, but under Grace".
So, where there is no law, there is no sin...... imputed. = Romans 4:8
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Obedience is as simple as waking up and thinking about God and give Him praise for a new day, for it being incredible, and maybe say other things to Him. But God [instructed] us to Pray to Him, Come to Him with our problems, Praise/Worship/Thank Him. So, we are [obeying] many times during the course of our normal day being in constant conversation with God within our thoughts. We are in our [secret place] just talking to God and being Obedient for doing it!
But Obedience is not Salvation, Obedience is the Result of Salvation!
But Obedience is not Salvation, Obedience is the Result of Salvation!
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Yes, as i wrote.
Salvation is all of God.
Discipleship (obedience), "walking the walk"..."presenting your body a living sacrifice"...."taking up your Cross"....... all of this is discipleship.
Its what the born again perform, because they are born again, but never to try to stay saved.
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Being on this site, discussing the Word of God by breaking it down into topics like this thread, reading the Word to verify Verses you are presented or agree with, voicing your view of God's Word for others to read and judge, these are all things we're doing in Obedience to God. We are keeping the Kingdom active. And then when we log off, we continue one on one with God as we do things we normally log off and do. We are in Obedience!
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We are "made righteous"......this is as if we have never sinned.
The blood atonement, is God's provision that deals with your sin.
Once it has. (born again) (redeemed) you are not "under the law".
Notice this...."Christ has redeemed US (the born again) from the CURSE of the Law".
So, when a deceived believer tries to ....."ok, now im saved.....where are those commandments and law, here i come",..... then you returning to the "old covenant",, where MOSES LAW and Commandments were found.
You are trying to go back under the law and return to the CURSE, when Christ has "redeemed us from the CURSE of the Law'".
When you do that... Paul says this about you.
"who has BEWITCHED YOU< that you no longer OBEY THE TRUTH."""""
He then defines you as.....>"Fallen from Grace"......."in the flesh"
The blood atonement, is God's provision that deals with your sin.
Once it has. (born again) (redeemed) you are not "under the law".
Notice this...."Christ has redeemed US (the born again) from the CURSE of the Law".
So, when a deceived believer tries to ....."ok, now im saved.....where are those commandments and law, here i come",..... then you returning to the "old covenant",, where MOSES LAW and Commandments were found.
You are trying to go back under the law and return to the CURSE, when Christ has "redeemed us from the CURSE of the Law'".
When you do that... Paul says this about you.
"who has BEWITCHED YOU< that you no longer OBEY THE TRUTH."""""
He then defines you as.....>"Fallen from Grace"......."in the flesh"
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In other word the saved not murder, robing etc
Or obedience is need for salvation
Simple exemple
Jesus require you to believe in Him to be save
If you obey and believe than you save if not you not save
So need obifience for salvation
The problem is some people think believe mean only believe that Jesus God and no need to believe His teaching. That is wrong
Believe is also believe His teaching, love Him with all your heath and will produce love your fellow man
Devil believe Jesus is God
Devil watch Jesus die on the cross
Devil watch and believe Jesus risen from the death
What devil lack is he hate Jesus and not agree with His teaching
So if we only believe Jesus is God but not love Him and not obey His teaching, we lust like devil and not save
Or obedience is need for salvation
Simple exemple
Jesus require you to believe in Him to be save
If you obey and believe than you save if not you not save
So need obifience for salvation
The problem is some people think believe mean only believe that Jesus God and no need to believe His teaching. That is wrong
Believe is also believe His teaching, love Him with all your heath and will produce love your fellow man
Devil believe Jesus is God
Devil watch Jesus die on the cross
Devil watch and believe Jesus risen from the death
What devil lack is he hate Jesus and not agree with His teaching
So if we only believe Jesus is God but not love Him and not obey His teaching, we lust like devil and not save