Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

The statement "The days of signs, wonders, and miracles are over." is a issue of prima facie. Why would he "need" to prove its validity from the Bible or any other reference source?

This is not a strange or false dichotomy. Jesus expected faith without miracles in John 20:24-29. Are miracles used to produce faith...of course but faith without miracles is labeled as blessed.

...signs and wonders....
The bible made the distinction right there, this stuff is simple, your need of manufactured emotional highs is the problem.

You looking for fireworks in your quotes to build you up and yet they are not from us but actually Jesus manifestations of “his” own thing and not something we conjure up ourselves for greatness.

Skeptics will remain skeptic. Unbelievers will continue in unbelief. Believers will receive and be blessed. God in His divine wisdom has seen fit not to reveal to those who do not want to believe some things so they will have room to remain in unbelief.

The fact that James tells Christians to go to the elders of the church so that they may pray for healing implies that healing miracles would not continue through miracle workers within the churches, but miracles would come about through prayers (as they continue to do so to this day). Furthermore, you need to study the writings of the Apostolic Fathers to see that not one of them claimed to be an apostle, or a prophets, or a miracle worker. This was shortly after the demise of the apostles.

As I already pointed out, signs, wonders, and miracles accompanied Christ and the apostles. That was a divine necessity. So while He was on earth, people flocked to Him for miracles of healing and the casting out of demons. That was then. If it were true today, we would have Christian miracle workers going out daily into every hospital, and simply healing people and sending them home. Since that is not the case, you have your answer right there.

I think that even if he did provide a video, it would just show a group of church folk doing their programmed thing. Wouldn't prove anything at all.

What I have come to in my thinking is that those who know who Jesus really is wouldn't worry about Cessationism or Continuance, because when we realise how much Jesus really loves us, we would be so immersed in Him that these things would become a non-issue.

I don't think that Jesus really worries about whether folk are Cessationist or Continuists. They would be just religious words to Him - part of "Churchianity". True Christianity is just resting in the love of Jesus, allowing Him to work out His will in us.

The best video that I could think of is of a group of people enjoying themselves and having fun around a fellowship barbecue, talking together about how God has been good to them and expressing thankfulness that God by His grace sent Jesus to die on the cross for them. Then someone would get up, take a slice of bread, break it and say, "This is the Lord's body broken for you" and then hand around buttered slices of bread with their sausages so they could eat and remember the Lord's death until He comes. Then a glass of wine would be lifted up to signify the shed blood of Jesus, and people would filled their glasses and drink a toast to the Blood of Jesus shed for them. Then they would carry on with the fun, laughter and stimulating conversation until it was time to go home.

That would be a video of a true church in action. No ceremony, ritual, programme or anyone in authority "leading" it.

In that context, someone could say, "Hey folks, I want to say something in my prayer language. Can someone interpret for me?" Someone else may agree to interpret, so the short speech in tongues would be made, and then be interpreted so that the group is encouraged and instructed by it. This can happen quite easily in the informal atmosphere of a barbecue and consequently not be anything spooky about it at all.

It is a faith issue. It is a shame cessationists come up with weak doctrinal excuses not to believe God to give the same sort of gifts He gave in scripture.

I wonder if Christianity would have been so well established and stood the rest of time if there hadn’t been all of those miraculous deeds signs and wonders accomplished in scripture ?

“And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭8:14-16,

in order for Christianity to be spread through the world it had to first be established immovable so that certain men believed fully .

when Jesus and the apostles were doing miracles it was so people would believe the gospel . I think it’s important to establish the part where God does miracles through believers to the point of spreading the gospel and having people receive it in faith

the establishment of the gospel in such miraculous ways with so many witnesses , assured that they would find the importance of carrying the great commission to the world

I agree with you what’s changed in my view isn’t anything from Gods word but it’s that there is a lack of faith in man now .

without faith even Jesus couldn’t do miracles for people because they didn’t believe. Belief fades when the doctrine is altered and watered down because faith has to be what God said

as we hear less of the true gospel our faith fades

“I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭18:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think we don’t see the workings of the Holy Ghost because we’ve lost faith in the true things

I fully believe in the gifts for today, however in 43 years I have yet to personally witness, the biblical operation of these gifts tongues, interpretation, prophesy, healing, etc in genuine Holy Spirit anointed practice.

Does Benny Hinn count?

Have you ever seen a tongue followed by an interpretation in church?

I think Jesus does indeed care what is said and done in his name.
I also disagree the picture that you are describing is how the church operated.
One only has to read the pastoral epistles to see how things were to be done.

The instructions to James does more than imply, they are instructions for how the church is to function.

There are lots of denominations teaching Christianity world wide in the mission fields .

yes yes we read a few souls get saved through their endeavours .... in America the Evangelicals have been flying on the coat tails of the Pentecostalists for decades while at the same time as being their bitterest enemies. Evangelicalism was about dead and buried before the Pentecostals came along.

yes yes we read a few souls get saved through their endeavours .... in America the Evangelicals have been flying on the coat tails of the Pentecostalists for decades while at the same time as being their bitterest enemies. Evangelicalism was about dead and buried before the Pentecostals came along.

Right where? What is the point you are making?

Emotional highs is not the topic we are discussing.

I fully believe in the gifts for today, however in 43 years I have yet to personally witness, the biblical operation of these gifts tongues, interpretation, prophesy, healing, etc in genuine Holy Spirit anointed practice.

The reason I said "implies" is because James did not come right out and say that healing miracle workers would cease.

It is a faith issue. It is a shame cessationists come up with weak doctrinal excuses not to believe God to give the same sort of gifts He gave in scripture.

This is word salad. Care to explain what you mean?