Plea not to receive mark of the beast because of waiting for rapture
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Greetings Godcares!
The scripture above is not referring to the gathering of the church, but to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. It is paramount to understand that there is a difference between these two events. At the gathering of the church, the Lord will descend to the atmosphere and with a voice like a trumpet will up the dead first, immortal and glorified. Immediately after that, those in Christ who are still alive will be changed and caught up with those who will have just resurrected. At this point and in accordance with the Lord's promise in John 14:1-3, the Lord will then take the entire church back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us. Once there, we will stand before the Bema Seat of Christ for judgment, not for sin, but to receive reward or to suffer loss of reward, as our sins have already been forgiven. Another event that will take place will be the wedding and wedding feast of the Lamb. After the 7th bowl has been poured out which completes God's wrath, the Lord will descend from heaven riding on a white horse and the armies of heaven, which is His church/bride will be following behind Him also riding on white horses and wearing the fine linen, white and clean that the bride will have received at the wedding of the Lamb, as described in Revelation 19:6-8, 14.
The scriptures that you posted above, including I Corinthians 15:50-53, are not in reference to when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, but is in reference to when the Lord appears to gather His church and take us back to the Father's house.
Jesus already took upon himself the wrath of God that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. Therefore, the wrath of God no longer rests upon those in Christ. In addition, God does not punish the righteous with the wicked.
During the tribulation period, God's wrath will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as all of the plagues that the two witnesses will bring. Since believers in Christ are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then the gathering of the church must and will take place prior to the first seal being opened. Consider the following verse regarding the Lord's return to the earth to end the age:
"They (beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
The above is regarding when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age where the beast, the ten kings and all of the nations will be gathered for Armageddon. As the scripture states, as the Lord is descending to engage the beast, the ten kings and their armies, with Him will be His called, chosen and faithful followers, which are all of the dead who will have previously been resurrected in their immortal and glorified bodies, as well as those who were still alive, changed and caught up. All of these will descend with Christ to end the age. In support of the church descending with the Lord to end the age, we also have the following scripture:
"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” - Jude 14
1 Corinthians 15:51-53/I Thessalonians 4:13-18/John 14:1-3 = Refers to the gathering of the church prior to the beginning of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments
Matthew 24:30-31/Revelation 19:11-21 = The Lord's return to the earth to end the age. The beast and the false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire alive, all who worshiped the beast, his image and received his mark are killed by the Lord and Satan is thrown into the Abyss and sealed in it so that he cannot deceive the nations during the thousand year reign of Christ on this present earth
Understanding the difference between the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to end the age is paramount to understanding end-time events. Because of failure to do so, expositors confuse scriptures for both events as referring to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and by doing so, put the church through the same wrath of God as the wicked.
The scripture above is not referring to the gathering of the church, but to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. It is paramount to understand that there is a difference between these two events. At the gathering of the church, the Lord will descend to the atmosphere and with a voice like a trumpet will up the dead first, immortal and glorified. Immediately after that, those in Christ who are still alive will be changed and caught up with those who will have just resurrected. At this point and in accordance with the Lord's promise in John 14:1-3, the Lord will then take the entire church back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us. Once there, we will stand before the Bema Seat of Christ for judgment, not for sin, but to receive reward or to suffer loss of reward, as our sins have already been forgiven. Another event that will take place will be the wedding and wedding feast of the Lamb. After the 7th bowl has been poured out which completes God's wrath, the Lord will descend from heaven riding on a white horse and the armies of heaven, which is His church/bride will be following behind Him also riding on white horses and wearing the fine linen, white and clean that the bride will have received at the wedding of the Lamb, as described in Revelation 19:6-8, 14.
The scriptures that you posted above, including I Corinthians 15:50-53, are not in reference to when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, but is in reference to when the Lord appears to gather His church and take us back to the Father's house.
Jesus already took upon himself the wrath of God that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. Therefore, the wrath of God no longer rests upon those in Christ. In addition, God does not punish the righteous with the wicked.
During the tribulation period, God's wrath will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as all of the plagues that the two witnesses will bring. Since believers in Christ are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then the gathering of the church must and will take place prior to the first seal being opened. Consider the following verse regarding the Lord's return to the earth to end the age:
"They (beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
The above is regarding when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age where the beast, the ten kings and all of the nations will be gathered for Armageddon. As the scripture states, as the Lord is descending to engage the beast, the ten kings and their armies, with Him will be His called, chosen and faithful followers, which are all of the dead who will have previously been resurrected in their immortal and glorified bodies, as well as those who were still alive, changed and caught up. All of these will descend with Christ to end the age. In support of the church descending with the Lord to end the age, we also have the following scripture:
"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” - Jude 14
1 Corinthians 15:51-53/I Thessalonians 4:13-18/John 14:1-3 = Refers to the gathering of the church prior to the beginning of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments
Matthew 24:30-31/Revelation 19:11-21 = The Lord's return to the earth to end the age. The beast and the false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire alive, all who worshiped the beast, his image and received his mark are killed by the Lord and Satan is thrown into the Abyss and sealed in it so that he cannot deceive the nations during the thousand year reign of Christ on this present earth
Understanding the difference between the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to end the age is paramount to understanding end-time events. Because of failure to do so, expositors confuse scriptures for both events as referring to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and by doing so, put the church through the same wrath of God as the wicked.
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Agreed! If you will notice and which is very significant, throughout chapter 1 thru 3 in Revelation, the word 'church' is used 19 times. Then it mysteriously disappears. This is because the word 'church' is the last word mentioned at the end of chapter three. Revelation 4:1 is then the prophetic allusion representing the church being called up by that voice that sounds like a trumpet and then the word 'church' is never used again during the narrative of God's wrath. The next place that the church is alluded to is at the wedding of the Lamb in Revelation 19:7 as the bride. After that, the next time the actual word 'church' is used is in Revelation 22:16 in the epilog. This is no coincidence, but is a clue from God within His word and we should pay attention to it.
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"l used to believe in the rapture and now I do not after re-examining the bible and realizing that there is not enough biblical evidence."
Really? You say that you have examined the Bible and not "enough " Biblical evidence. So you are not saying there is NO EVIDENCE?
Why would one think God could take a person(s) out of the world to prevent them from the wrath of God being poured out on the world?
Anything in Genesis?
Enoch (Gen 5:21–24) "walked with God: and he was no more; for God took him"
Elijah? 2Kings 2:11 "As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. "
Any others? Philip Comes to mind Acts 8:39 " after the "the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away,(harpazō ) and the eunuch saw him no more and went on his way rejoicing. "
In each situation, God removed them Supernaturally. Here are three times in scripture where God has shown HE is able to remove and relocate people.
Can we say as a normative God has and can remove people from the earth or protect them while on the earth? Sozo = Saved=Salvation saved, healed, and delivered
Has the church been subject to God's wrath?
This may not be enough evidence for you but it is a good start to ask this question " From what we see God did in the Old Testament in protecting HIS People can we see that same protection in the future of the church?
I think so.
Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him."
Hebrews chapter 10 & 11
10:35-38
35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
Hebrew 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
verse 5-6
By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Do you believe God can do it? and do you have faith HE will do it? From what I see HE can and has .
second question: " Where is the scripture used to speak on what is known as the "Rapture " at where this doctrine has come from?
2 Thessalonians 2:1–10
“Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.”
and many others:
- 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
- Rev 3:10
- 1cor 15:52
- Phil 3:20-21
- John14:3 Jesus speaking
- Dan 12:1
I will stop here because there is more than enough scriptures from the word of God both Old and New Testaments to see:
- God supernaturally saving people as a normative in many biblical accounts
- To answer the question can HE do it today
- wherein the New Testament does it speak of forthcoming of the Lord and removing those of His church as HE has done in the past
- who has spoken consistently on this happening? 1. Jesus 2. Paul 3. John
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This is one major aspect of why there is a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. There are also two other major aspects which are generally ignored by the naysayers:
(1) the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church is the CULMINATION of salvation. God has predestined His children to be glorified and perfected. And that is exactly what happens at the Rapture. They must be perfected for the Marriage of the Lamb (Rev 19) which happens BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ.
(2) The Tribulation is a part of the reign of the Antichrist. But before he can take control, the Restrainer -- the Holy Spirit -- must be "taken out of the way". Which means that His restraining influence on earth will be absent for 3 1/2 years. And since the saints are indwelt by the Spirit, it would follow that the Church must also be taken out of the way. This is all during Daniel's 70th week.
The absence of God's restraint on Satanic and demonic evil on earth will mean that Satan can exercise his full wrath on the Tribulation saints and have them all beheaded (Rev 12, 13 & 20). And demonic spirits will work on earth mightily at that time as we seen in Revelation.
(1) the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church is the CULMINATION of salvation. God has predestined His children to be glorified and perfected. And that is exactly what happens at the Rapture. They must be perfected for the Marriage of the Lamb (Rev 19) which happens BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ.
(2) The Tribulation is a part of the reign of the Antichrist. But before he can take control, the Restrainer -- the Holy Spirit -- must be "taken out of the way". Which means that His restraining influence on earth will be absent for 3 1/2 years. And since the saints are indwelt by the Spirit, it would follow that the Church must also be taken out of the way. This is all during Daniel's 70th week.
The absence of God's restraint on Satanic and demonic evil on earth will mean that Satan can exercise his full wrath on the Tribulation saints and have them all beheaded (Rev 12, 13 & 20). And demonic spirits will work on earth mightily at that time as we seen in Revelation.
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I see that you strongly believe in the pre-rapture. I understand because I also at one point in my life also strongly believed as you do. And I will not be able to convince you to change your mind.
However, would you agree with me with the main point of my post that if the rapture (the pre-rapture specifically) was not true that many Christians are more likely to decide to receive the mark of the beast because according to the theory, the mark of the beast comes after the pre-rapture.
If so, then my plea is that anyone who does believe in the rapture should have it at the back of their minds that their pastors could be wrong. And if there is something that is introduced to control buying or selling and involves putting a mark on their hand or forehead, that they should rather be safe than sorry and not to accept it.
When you think about it, the rapture theory is actually a very dangerous theory if it is indeed not true.
However, would you agree with me with the main point of my post that if the rapture (the pre-rapture specifically) was not true that many Christians are more likely to decide to receive the mark of the beast because according to the theory, the mark of the beast comes after the pre-rapture.
If so, then my plea is that anyone who does believe in the rapture should have it at the back of their minds that their pastors could be wrong. And if there is something that is introduced to control buying or selling and involves putting a mark on their hand or forehead, that they should rather be safe than sorry and not to accept it.
When you think about it, the rapture theory is actually a very dangerous theory if it is indeed not true.
Many people have made the same claim, as though because you changed your belief that everyone else is now wrong. It tells me that, your information does not come from the Holy Spirit, because He does not give false information and then change His mind later on.
The mark of the beast takes place from the middle of the seven years until the end. It is going to be a type of proverbial line being drawn in the sand, forcing every individual to make his/her own choice. As I already told you, the church will not be here during that time period of God's wrath, because believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Jesus already satisfied it on behalf of every believer. It is a legal precedent and no long rests upon those who believe in Christ. In addition, God does not punish the righteous with the wicked. And since everyone on earth will be exposed to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, then the church cannot be here to be exposed to them. Use your head!
Also, the gathering of the church (rapture) is not a theory, but can be read in John 14:1-3, I Thess.4:13-17, I Cor.15:51-53 and Rev.3:10. The controversy is not if, but when.
Since Jesus already experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely, then believers cannot and will not be exposed to it.
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"Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed." - Isaiah 53
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Consequently, anyone who is believing and teaching that the Lord is going to put His church through His wrath, cannot also believe that Jesus suffered God's wrath on every believers behalf. They're like democrats talking out both sides of their mouths! Either Jesus took upon himself God's wrath and therefore reconciled us to God, or He didn't and God's wrath still rests upon us. What's it going to be? Because you can't claim both! It is only those who do not believe in Christ that do not have life and upon whom God's wrath rests. For the believer, it has been fulfilled.
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them."
The scripture above is also saying that, those who believes in the Son, the wrath of God no longer rests upon them.
When we believed, we were credited with the righteousness of Christ and reconciled to God. How is it then that you people think that God's wrath still rests upon us and is going to send us through His wrath?
The mark of the beast takes place from the middle of the seven years until the end. It is going to be a type of proverbial line being drawn in the sand, forcing every individual to make his/her own choice. As I already told you, the church will not be here during that time period of God's wrath, because believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Jesus already satisfied it on behalf of every believer. It is a legal precedent and no long rests upon those who believe in Christ. In addition, God does not punish the righteous with the wicked. And since everyone on earth will be exposed to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, then the church cannot be here to be exposed to them. Use your head!
Also, the gathering of the church (rapture) is not a theory, but can be read in John 14:1-3, I Thess.4:13-17, I Cor.15:51-53 and Rev.3:10. The controversy is not if, but when.
Since Jesus already experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely, then believers cannot and will not be exposed to it.
=============================================================================
"Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed." - Isaiah 53
=============================================================================
Consequently, anyone who is believing and teaching that the Lord is going to put His church through His wrath, cannot also believe that Jesus suffered God's wrath on every believers behalf. They're like democrats talking out both sides of their mouths! Either Jesus took upon himself God's wrath and therefore reconciled us to God, or He didn't and God's wrath still rests upon us. What's it going to be? Because you can't claim both! It is only those who do not believe in Christ that do not have life and upon whom God's wrath rests. For the believer, it has been fulfilled.
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them."
The scripture above is also saying that, those who believes in the Son, the wrath of God no longer rests upon them.
When we believed, we were credited with the righteousness of Christ and reconciled to God. How is it then that you people think that God's wrath still rests upon us and is going to send us through His wrath?
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Dream On!
Rev 7v9,10,14: "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"... And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
You have to be "in something" before you can come "out of it"! These are Christians who "come out of" the Great Tribulation either by being martyred during it, or who are raptured at the Second Coming of Christ (when Antichrist is destroyed by the breath of His mouth) IMMEDIATLY after the Great Tribulation! Matt 24v29-31, 2Thess 2v1-4,8.
"Out of" is the Greek prep. "ek" and NOT "apo" which means "away from."
So, dear sir, you are completely deceived!
Rev 7v9,10,14: "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"... And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
You have to be "in something" before you can come "out of it"! These are Christians who "come out of" the Great Tribulation either by being martyred during it, or who are raptured at the Second Coming of Christ (when Antichrist is destroyed by the breath of His mouth) IMMEDIATLY after the Great Tribulation! Matt 24v29-31, 2Thess 2v1-4,8.
"Out of" is the Greek prep. "ek" and NOT "apo" which means "away from."
So, dear sir, you are completely deceived!
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Hello Nehemiah6 and @throughfaith
You think that “elect” relates only to the Jews, then it means that you believe that the “elect” in Romans 8:33, Colossians 3:12 and 1 Timothy 5:21 only relate to the Jews as well, which does not make sense.
You think that “elect” relates only to the Jews, then it means that you believe that the “elect” in Romans 8:33, Colossians 3:12 and 1 Timothy 5:21 only relate to the Jews as well, which does not make sense.
Correct. 
The last few verses in that chapter show their destination-location, where this parallels Isaiah 49:10's verse pertaining to the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (... notice also the phrasing "day and night" in that section).
Additionally, these "a great multitude... of all the nations" are set in contradistinction to "the 144,000 [12,000 of each of the tribes named there (of Israel, singular nation)]" (also on the earth), in that same chapter, Rev7. One could ask themselves "why is this?" I mean, each section (of these two distinct sections) are telling of "saved persons".
The last few verses in that chapter show their destination-location, where this parallels Isaiah 49:10's verse pertaining to the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (... notice also the phrasing "day and night" in that section).
Additionally, these "a great multitude... of all the nations" are set in contradistinction to "the 144,000 [12,000 of each of the tribes named there (of Israel, singular nation)]" (also on the earth), in that same chapter, Rev7. One could ask themselves "why is this?" I mean, each section (of these two distinct sections) are telling of "saved persons".
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The main point of my post is the plea that whether or not you believe in the rapture, that if you suspect that something could be the mark of the beast that you should not accept it and you should not wait for a rapture that might not happen.
However, the majority of the people who replied to the post decided to focus on the rapture and not the plea.
Therefore since the majority prefers to focus on the rapture, then I will also focus on it. I have been reading your posts and no one has been able to provide bible verses to prove that the pre-rapture is true. The bible verses provided so far do not specifically relate to the end times. I have also read long posts of speculation.
The bible says that in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall God’s word be established (2 Corinthians 13:1).
Therefore if you believe in the pre-rapture, you need to provide 2 or 3 bible verses for each point that prove the following:
Any bible verses can be provided if it is obvious from reading them that they are rapture related. (Therefore no more speculations!). However, it would be wonderful if someone could provide bible verses from the book of Revelation (the main end-time book) that the pre-rapture is true.
However, the majority of the people who replied to the post decided to focus on the rapture and not the plea.
Therefore since the majority prefers to focus on the rapture, then I will also focus on it. I have been reading your posts and no one has been able to provide bible verses to prove that the pre-rapture is true. The bible verses provided so far do not specifically relate to the end times. I have also read long posts of speculation.
The bible says that in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall God’s word be established (2 Corinthians 13:1).
Therefore if you believe in the pre-rapture, you need to provide 2 or 3 bible verses for each point that prove the following:
- The rapture happens after the tribulation
- People disappear/vanish during the rapture
- The rapture secretly happens
- The rapture is a silent event (i.e. if people are raptured at night, the ones left behind will find out the next morning)
- Seven years of apocalyptic terror will overtake those left behind
Any bible verses can be provided if it is obvious from reading them that they are rapture related. (Therefore no more speculations!). However, it would be wonderful if someone could provide bible verses from the book of Revelation (the main end-time book) that the pre-rapture is true.
We are called to "correctly apportion the word of truth" ... and much of that has to do with "what happens when, in relation to what other thing/things" (i.e. chronology / timing-issues), as opposed to lumping everything into one big mish-mash of mush. = )
The things that are different, are not the same.
The things that are different, are not the same.
it is not about changing my mind, it is the assumption that the doctrine of the "taking away of the church " is unbiblical .
And there is not enough evidence in the word of God to show is supported Biblically and not some kind of false teaching.
I do see in scripture also where there is support for a mid trip-rapture, so you are incorrect that I am not open to other biblical positions, however, the Doctrine of "Eminency" = the soon return of the Lord Has been supported by all positions in the orthodox church.
As far as christians receiving the " mark" there has to be a few things to happen, form that to be so IF a Christian is going to get the mark of the beast. And a pretrib rapture belief has nothing to do with it.
1. The Holy Spirit in the Believer would not be enough to seal them unto salvation I'm sure my Calvinist brother & sister would agree with that"
2. Jesus said that HE would pray for us that our faith would hold, in this time. Not may hold but will . That would have to be a lie
3. The Holy Spirit would have failed in leading us into all truth.
The mark is only part remember the mark & worship are connected it is not either or. Not only would those christian you are speaking about have to get the mark they will have to worship the image of the beast. IF a Christian today doesn't know NOT to worship anything other than th One true God, News Flash They were never christians.
Your idea that looking and expecting the return of the Lord to come an take us at any moment " Suddenly, in the twinkle of an eye " means one would get the mark of the beast, I'm sorry Think that is very much opinionated.
My safety today is in the Lord I am not problem tomorrow this is the only day I have. My rapture could be today WE are to be ready 24/7 we are to expect the Lord to Come at any time, Jesus said BE ready In the hour you think NOT the Lord cometh even so Come quickly Lord Jesus. I'm not looking for the anti-christ I am looking for the Lord Jesus Christ.
The believe in the pre-trib rapture and yes this is opinionated too, but I se it in the word of God, Jesu coming at any moment has helped me flee sin, serve more, and reach more for the Gospel. AS I see Paul did with this mind-set, and others.
John 14:1-3
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Lol
They missed the rapture.
But ironically it goes against postrib or even midtrib.
They are in heaven EARLY ON IN THE TRIB.
They are NOT protected and alive till the end or middle of the 7 yr trib.
Those martyrs IN NO WAY SUPPORT YOUR VIEW.
1)You do not know what the pretrib doctrine is.
2) you ironically cut down post and mid trib with your post
3) if you read the parable of the 10 virgins and the wedding supper parable you can clearly see harvest is not one dimensional.
4) In your same "out of" dynamic Jesus said in rev "I will keep you OUT OF the trial about to come upon the whole world"
Jesus said "pray that you may be counted WORTHY to ESCAPE..."
Then Jesus framed THAT SAME ESCAPE with Noah and Lot.
The bible is so clear it is a pretrib rapture.
You know where that postrib rapture notion started???
It was an ERRONEOUS ASSUMPTION by the church fathers that saw THE WORLD AND PROPHECY through the warped perspective of a destroyed holy land and scattered Jews.
That is WHERE it started.
1947 brought enlightenment.
Israel restored.
Postrib rapture is so busted it is like a worn out antique just kept around but totally useless
A babe in Christ with a bible can defend pretrib rapture.
Ya'lls job is a hard job my friend.
They missed the rapture.
But ironically it goes against postrib or even midtrib.
They are in heaven EARLY ON IN THE TRIB.
They are NOT protected and alive till the end or middle of the 7 yr trib.
Those martyrs IN NO WAY SUPPORT YOUR VIEW.
1)You do not know what the pretrib doctrine is.
2) you ironically cut down post and mid trib with your post
3) if you read the parable of the 10 virgins and the wedding supper parable you can clearly see harvest is not one dimensional.
4) In your same "out of" dynamic Jesus said in rev "I will keep you OUT OF the trial about to come upon the whole world"
Jesus said "pray that you may be counted WORTHY to ESCAPE..."
Then Jesus framed THAT SAME ESCAPE with Noah and Lot.
The bible is so clear it is a pretrib rapture.
You know where that postrib rapture notion started???
It was an ERRONEOUS ASSUMPTION by the church fathers that saw THE WORLD AND PROPHECY through the warped perspective of a destroyed holy land and scattered Jews.
That is WHERE it started.
1947 brought enlightenment.
Israel restored.
Postrib rapture is so busted it is like a worn out antique just kept around but totally useless
A babe in Christ with a bible can defend pretrib rapture.
Ya'lls job is a hard job my friend.