When Jesus 'broke the rules'

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Christ Yeshua brought fullness to the meaning of love, of God's law of love. He walked perfectly in God's law of love, and he preached it perfectly. God's law is love, love for God, and neighbour as self.
yep that’s a good summary 🙂

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

...And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-3, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭45:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”

‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
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307
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yep that’s a good summary 🙂

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

...And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-3, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭45:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”

‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭
Amen brother.
 

laymen

Senior Member
Apr 6, 2014
680
102
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faithlife.com
yep that’s a good summary 🙂

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

...And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-3, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭45:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”

‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭
This is all fine. But what does this have to do with the subject of "Did Jesus break the Law?"
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
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307
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This is all fine. But what does this have to do with the subject of "Did Jesus break the Law?"
It is relevant in the sense that Christ Yeshua could not break the law, as he brought it to is fulness.


Matthew 5 (ESV)


16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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It is relevant in the sense that Christ Yeshua could not break the law, as he brought it to is fulness.


Matthew 5 (ESV)


16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


Every way of a man is right in his own eyes:

but the Lord pondereth the hearts.”

‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭21:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes;

but the Lord weigheth the spirits.”

‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭16:2‬ ‭K

“Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men,

but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:24-26, 28‬ ‭

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees

“ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men,

but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.”

notice one command for the flesh And another for the spirit

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭51:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:

for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

which veil is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes:

but the Lord pondereth the hearts.”

‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭21:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes;

but the Lord weigheth the spirits.”

‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭16:2‬ ‭K

“Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men,

but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:24-26, 28‬ ‭

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees

“ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men,

but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.”

notice one command for the flesh And another for the spirit

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭51:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:

for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

which veil is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Amen brother.
 
Sep 9, 2018
3
2
3
so why then, did Jesus heal on the Sabbath when God said to set that day apart right in the Decalogue (10 commandments) and do no work on that day ?
Forgive me if this has already been answered for you. I just thought I'd share my thoughts for your consideration.

As I understand it, love and mercy always take priority over the literal adherence of the Torah as the whole sum of the Torah is love.

Consider how an ambulance speeds through traffic breaking the limit. Technically they are breaking the law but the situation supercedes the law. But the "business as usual" ruling is sticl to the limit or pay a penalty.

It's lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Working for selfish or financial means would be a violation. But working to bless or help someone else in real need - when you have the means - is no violation. Conversely, if you saw someone in real need and you had the power to help but didn't because of Sabbath, you've missed the very heart of the Torah.

But let me reiterate, "business as usual" is sabbath observance. When there is no one within range with a real need that you can meet then it's "business as usual" - rest up and recuperate!

I hope that gives you another point of view to consider. Great question.

Love & Shalom
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Forgive me if this has already been answered for you. I just thought I'd share my thoughts for your consideration.

As I understand it, love and mercy always take priority over the literal adherence of the Torah as the whole sum of the Torah is love.

Consider how an ambulance speeds through traffic breaking the limit. Technically they are breaking the law but the situation supercedes the law. But the "business as usual" ruling is sticl to the limit or pay a penalty.

It's lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Working for selfish or financial means would be a violation. But working to bless or help someone else in real need - when you have the means - is no violation. Conversely, if you saw someone in real need and you had the power to help but didn't because of Sabbath, you've missed the very heart of the Torah.

But let me reiterate, "business as usual" is sabbath observance. When there is no one within range with a real need that you can meet then it's "business as usual" - rest up and recuperate!

I hope that gives you another point of view to consider. Great question.

Love & Shalom
You have answered it so clear. The Sabbath is a love for God command. How can you convince anyone or yourself, that you have love for God, if you do not show mercy to your fellow man. You do not show love to your fellow man, if you turn away from your fellow man's distress, instead of doing something about it. If your fellow man's distress came across your path on the Sabbath day, and you could not have done something about it prior to the Sabbath, on the six days of your work, it would be contrary to, love God and your neighbour as yourself, if you do not do God's work of healing on the Sabbath. To be acting as to be refraining from doing any of your work you should have done on the six days of your work, would just be an excuse not to love.


Deuteronomy 5 (ESV)

13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
You have answered it so clear. The Sabbath is a love for God command. How can you convince anyone or yourself, that you have love for God, if you do not show mercy to your fellow man. You do not show love to your fellow man, if you turn away from your fellow man's distress, instead of doing something about it. If your fellow man's distress came across your path on the Sabbath day, and you could not have done something about it prior to the Sabbath, on the six days of your work, it would be contrary to, love God and your neighbour as yourself, if you do not do God's work of healing on the Sabbath. To be acting as to be refraining from doing any of your work you should have done on the six days of your work, would just be an excuse not to love.


Deuteronomy 5 (ESV)

13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

Your screen name TzephanYahu sounds like Zephanaiah. Are there relevance to this coinciding?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,947
5,648
113
You have answered it so clear. The Sabbath is a love for God command. How can you convince anyone or yourself, that you have love for God, if you do not show mercy to your fellow man. You do not show love to your fellow man, if you turn away from your fellow man's distress, instead of doing something about it. If your fellow man's distress came across your path on the Sabbath day, and you could not have done something about it prior to the Sabbath, on the six days of your work, it would be contrary to, love God and your neighbour as yourself, if you do not do God's work of healing on the Sabbath. To be acting as to be refraining from doing any of your work you should have done on the six days of your work, would just be an excuse not to love.


Deuteronomy 5 (ESV)

13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
see the very end of your post ?

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;

which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there are two separate covenants with two separate laws , given by two separate mediators , for two separate purposes .

There is a sabbath rest in Christ that has nothing to do with any specific day Look at the ot like a prophecy and the new as the revelation

“For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the sabbath rest of God is about faith in Christ

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:28-30‬ ‭
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
see the very end of your post ?

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;

which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there are two separate covenants with two separate laws , given by two separate mediators , for two separate purposes .

There is a sabbath rest in Christ that has nothing to do with any specific day Look at the ot like a prophecy and the new as the revelation

“For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the sabbath rest of God is about faith in Christ

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:28-30‬ ‭
I can not have Sabbath's rest while having to handle a crisis at work, an injured child having to be rushed to hospital, friends being murdered on a farm, etc., etc. There is the seventh day we set ASIDE, holy unto God, to be rejuvenated into his rest, from all the hustlings and bustlings of the rat race of the other six.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,947
5,648
113
I can not have Sabbath's rest while having to handle a crisis at work, an injured child having to be rushed to hospital, friends being murdered on a farm, etc., etc. There is the seventh day we set ASIDE, holy unto God, to be rejuvenated into his rest, from all the hustlings and bustlings of the rat race of the other six.
it’s about being born again brother those things like sabbaths were temporary shadows of things in the New Testament listen to what Paul is saying here and ill
Leave it there

“As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come;

but the body is of Christ.”

‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:6-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬



do you notice this part ?

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come;

but the body is of Christ.”

It’s about this now

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:29‬ ‭KJV‬

It isn’t about a holy day but in the end brother it matters what you believe

One man esteemeth one day above another:

another esteemeth every day alike.

Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s about faith . Definitely not a bad thing to keep the sabbath but it’s not part of the new covenant Sort of was my point .
 
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Scribe

Guest
it’s about being born again brother those things like sabbaths were temporary shadows of things in the New Testament listen to what Paul is saying here and ill
Leave it there

“As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come;

but the body is of Christ.”

‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:6-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬



do you notice this part ?

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come;

but the body is of Christ.”

It’s about this now

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:29‬ ‭KJV‬

It isn’t about a holy day but in the end brother it matters what you believe

One man esteemeth one day above another:

another esteemeth every day alike.

Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s about faith . Definitely not a bad thing to keep the sabbath but it’s not part of the new covenant Sort of was my point .
If that scripture does not clear things up then no amount of arguing will do it. If this passage is ignored, glossed over, or twisted then you are dealing with intellectual dishonesty and those that oppose themselves. Time to shake the dust off and move on. When this passage of scripture is rejected by Sabbath Police I realize I am dealing with a cult type personality that wants to be part of an elite in their own minds and will not let you take that away from them.
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
385
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ogom.co
see the very end of your post ?

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;

which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there are two separate covenants with two separate laws , given by two separate mediators , for two separate purposes .

There is a sabbath rest in Christ that has nothing to do with any specific day Look at the ot like a prophecy and the new as the revelation

“For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the sabbath rest of God is about faith in Christ

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:28-30‬ ‭

"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."


there remaineth - it's still waiting

for he that is - has ceased (has stopped completely)

ceased from his own works (from anything at all not of God)


Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


let us labour (present tense, future)

to enter (not yet entered into)

into that rest (that rest not yet entered)

lest any man fall (it's possible to fall)

same example -


"To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts." verse 7

Isaiah 30
21 You will hear a voice behind you saying, “This is the way. Follow it, whether it turns to the right or to the left.”
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,947
5,648
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If that scripture does not clear things up then no amount of arguing will do it. If this passage is ignored, glossed over, or twisted then you are dealing with intellectual dishonesty and those that oppose themselves. Time to shake the dust off and move on. When this passage of scripture is rejected by Sabbath Police I realize I am dealing with a cult type personality that wants to be part of an elite in their own minds and will not let you take that away from them.
on brother I don’t know what’s in other folks mind , I just believe that scripture needs to be what interprets the scripture .

the way I see it the Old Testament is prophetic and the New Testament is revelation to understand the message in the old. so it sort of requires scripture to interpret scripture and not thinking without the revelation that’s there

like Paul taught the Old Testament is like trying to understand God while looking at him through a dark veil , but when one turns to the gospel there stands our Lord for all to see and know .

the law is to see God from this perspective

“And the Lord came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the Lord called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up. And the Lord said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the Lord to gaze, and many of them perish.

And Moses said unto the Lord, The people cannot come up to mount Sinai: for thou chargedst us, saying, Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it. And the Lord said unto him, Away, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the Lord, lest he break forth upon them.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭19:20-21, 23-24‬ ‭

so the law appears as if you are looking at God from a far distance and can’t hear or see him there’s no real relationship between God and his people so they have carnal ordinances to observe that he doesn’t destroy them .

but Christ Jesus is like this

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭

so the law is heard like this

“Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the Lord our God any more, then we shall die.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:25‬ ‭

but the truth is , and Jesus speaks like this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,947
5,648
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"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."


there remaineth - it's still waiting

for he that is - has ceased (has stopped completely)

ceased from his own works (from anything at all not of God)


Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


let us labour (present tense, future)

to enter (not yet entered into)

into that rest (that rest not yet entered)

lest any man fall (it's possible to fall)

same example -


"To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts." verse 7

Isaiah 30
21 You will hear a voice behind you saying, “This is the way. Follow it, whether it turns to the right or to the left.”
I’m yes because he is speaking from Old Testament scripture . He’s saying Joshua didn’t give them the rest God promises when they entered into the promised land . And that prophecy wouldn’t have promised the rest was yet to come if Joshua has given then the rest

so there remains a rest for Gods people , that rest is found in Christ.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
it’s about being born again brother those things like sabbaths were temporary shadows of things in the New Testament listen to what Paul is saying here and ill
Leave it there

“As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come;

but the body is of Christ.”

‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:6-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬



do you notice this part ?

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come;

but the body is of Christ.”

It’s about this now

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:29‬ ‭KJV‬

It isn’t about a holy day but in the end brother it matters what you believe

One man esteemeth one day above another:

another esteemeth every day alike.

Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s about faith . Definitely not a bad thing to keep the sabbath but it’s not part of the new covenant Sort of was my point .
Yes, but God's mercy does not give us free-pass to unrighteousness. Those born again will not be judged by their works, but are set free by the book of life, of the lamb that was slain. Those born again WILL DO ACCORDING TO GOD'S LAW, as they are a new creature - the one does not go without the other - God's will, as revealed in his law, is eternal.

If you were born twice (physically and eternally spiritually), you die once (physically, and not spiritually nor eternally). If you were born once (only physically), you die twice (physical and eternally).

Children of God are not lawless, and is synchronised to God's will, his law, as written on their hearts and minds, including resting on his Sabbath day.


Hebrews 8 (KJV)


10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
If that scripture does not clear things up then no amount of arguing will do it. If this passage is ignored, glossed over, or twisted then you are dealing with intellectual dishonesty and those that oppose themselves. Time to shake the dust off and move on. When this passage of scripture is rejected by Sabbath Police I realize I am dealing with a cult type personality that wants to be part of an elite in their own minds and will not let you take that away from them.
What you do with you Sabbath is your business, do not tell me what to do with mine, I prefer God and Christ Yeshua telling me that. I prefer resting in God's presence and the presence of his holy ones.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
2 Peter 3 (ESV)

14 Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. 15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."


there remaineth - it's still waiting

for he that is - has ceased (has stopped completely)

ceased from his own works (from anything at all not of God)


Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


let us labour (present tense, future)

to enter (not yet entered into)

into that rest (that rest not yet entered)

lest any man fall (it's possible to fall)

same example -


"To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts." verse 7

Isaiah 30
21 You will hear a voice behind you saying, “This is the way. Follow it, whether it turns to the right or to the left.”

Exodus 31 (KJV)


16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.