When Jesus 'broke the rules'

[lenna]

Again he entered the synagogue, and a man was there who had a withered hand. They watched him to see whether he would cure him on the sabbath, so that they might accuse him. And he said to the man who had the withered hand, “Come forward.” Then he said to them, “Is it lawful to do good or to do harm on the sabbath, to save life or to kill?” But they were silent. He looked around at them with anger; he was grieved at their hardness of heart and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored. The Pharisees went out and immediately conspired with the Herodians against him, how to destroy him. (Mark 3:1–6)

oh no. on the Sabbath. the key to understanding this passage without taking sides with the Pharisees, is to understand the reason for the law given to Moses to give to the Israelites. reading the passage above today (read the whole chapter even better) we say we see the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, but what about those who insist Jesus was sinless and never broke any portion of the law?

perhaps the answer lies in priorities. or perhaps in a person's desire to be 'sinless' so as not be under condemnation

so why then, did Jesus heal on the Sabbath when God said to set that day apart right in the Decalogue (10 commandments) and do no work on that day ?

 

[Happy2020]

1. You will first have to learn Hebrew then the Talmud to understand anything that’s going on between the Pharisees and Jesus.

2. Pharisees includes both righteous G-d fearing Jews and also corrupt Jews. But because they were leaders and some were heretical Jesus had rebuked them. For we know many Pharisees that also believed in Jesus.

3. Just so you know I’m not crazy and the NT is a jewish text, Jesus brings down that “circumcision” is permitted on Shabbat (I.e. cutting foreskin or bleeding are 2 of 39 Biblical Forms of “melacha” - creative work). Hebrew is very rich and there are various types of work. Proof that all Jews and Jesus agree to this law that Shabbat can be broken for we are also commanded on the 8th day to circumcise a boy. So which law is heavier? That’s great explained in the Talmud as well as Jesus brings it down

4. Saving a life mean and you break all Shabbat laws if needed because life isn’t much greater. HOWEVER some Pharisees who were “legalistic” like “SOME CHAREDI’s” in the Orthodox world, wouldn’t even break Shabbat to save a life. Jesus would rebuke these same type of Jews today but most Jews know to break Shabbat for a life.

5. Therefore it is a given that if physical life can be saved then a spiritual life can be saved since that’s all the more greater! And Shabbat is a very spiritual day too, this Jesus did NOT break Shabbat according to the Torah but SOME (NOT ALL) Pharisees did not like this because they were “overly religious” and looked passed the meaning or “purpose” of G-d’s PERFECT (NOT OLD) Torah.

I hope that makes sense You don’t learn this in Sunday school sadly and because they don’t know and just ignore the fact that there is so much to know from the Torah before understanding this occurrence

 

[SoulWeaver]

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

I agree with you - the Pharisees didn't understand the reason because it's spiritually discerned. Sabbath was about finding rest from one's own dead works in God. All they could see with the carnal eyes was "don't taste, don't touch, don't do this on such and such day". They thought they were made for Sabbath, when in reality Sabbath as a holiday was made for man's sake to foretell the things to come. They didn't understand the reality Sabbath was foreshadowing when they saw it in Jesus, and were (are?) still clinging to a shadow form of godliness.

 

[JaumeJ]

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

I agree with you - the Pharisees didn't understand the reason because it's spiritually discerned. Sabbath was about finding rest from one's own dead works in God. All they could see with the carnal eyes was "don't taste, don't touch, don't do this on such and such day". They thought they were made for Sabbath, when in reality Sabbath as a holiday was made for man's sake to foretell the things to come. They didn't understand the reality Sabbath was foreshadowing when they saw it in Jesus, and were (are?) still clinging to a shadow form of godliness.

Wonderful insight and teaching. Would that all would take off that veil and see this clearly and understand the gift of the Sabbath is not a drudgery, rather a delight.

 

[TM19782017]

This question leads my mind to the story about the women caught in adultery that said according to Mosaic law, she should be stoned.

What Jesus did, after they tried to trip him up has always been a little baffling to me until, I heard someone else explain the verses in a different way.
Jesus pretended like he didn’t hear them and starting writing in the sand. Anything written in sand will disappear when the wind comes.

In a nutshell, the law was not written to point the finger at others wrongdoings, it was written for personal growth within.

 

[Blik]

The basic rule of the Lord is to love your God with all your heart, soul, and mind and others as yourself. All the rules given are ways to do that. But if a rule given in stone means you need to break the basic rule, then it is the basic rule you must follow. Christ broke the law of the Sabbath, as an example, to follow the law of love.

In more recent times in the Netherlands people broke the law telling them not to lie to the Nazi in order to save life.

 

[SheepMary]

Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” Matt 12:12

 

[SheepMary]

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

I agree with you - the Pharisees didn't understand the reason because it's spiritually discerned. Sabbath was about finding rest from one's own dead works in God. All they could see with the carnal eyes was "don't taste, don't touch, don't do this on such and such day". They thought they were made for Sabbath, when in reality Sabbath as a holiday was made for man's sake to foretell the things to come. They didn't understand the reality Sabbath was foreshadowing when they saw it in Jesus, and were (are?) still clinging to a shadow form of godliness.

Where did you get this? You speak heresy.

6Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,
“Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.” Heb 4

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from His. Heb 4

11Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. Heb 4

The false teaching you posted is in conflict with the Word of God. Repent.

 

[SheepMary]

This question leads my mind to the story about the women caught in adultery that said according to Mosaic law, she should be stoned.

What Jesus did, after they tried to trip him up has always been a little baffling to me until, I heard someone else explain the verses in a different way.
Jesus pretended like he didn’t hear them and starting writing in the sand. Anything written in sand will disappear when the wind comes.

In a nutshell, the law was not written to point the finger at others wrongdoings, it was written for personal growth within.

Jesus was in the temple. The temple is made of stone. Jesus was writing (with the finger of God) on stone. No sand.
((Just like the 10 Commandments were written in stone by the finger of God.))

 

[SoulWeaver]

Where did you get this? You speak heresy.

6Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,
“Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.” Heb 4

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from His. Heb 4

11Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. Heb 4

The false teaching you posted is in conflict with the Word of God. Repent.

Repent from what? Can you explain what do you think is heresy in my post?

Sabbath ordinance was a shadow of the things to come. Rest is entered through Christ "come all you weary and I will give you REST", to suggest that Jesus didn't give us rest and isn't the finisher of our faith but ordinance completes us, is an absurdity.
We lay down our own old dead works on the altar. We don't live the old life after we start following Jesus.
Weekly ordinances are not something that is ENTERED. You don't enter a weekly ordinance but you can enter a unity with God.

 

[SheepMary]

1At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.” 3He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, and those who were with him: 4how he entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? 5Or have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are guiltless? 6I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. 7And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

 

[SheepMary]

Repent from what? Can you explain what do you think is heresy in my post?

Sabbath ordinance was a shadow of the things to come. Rest is entered through Christ "come all you weary and I will give you REST", to suggest that Jesus didn't give us rest and isn't the finisher of our faith but ordinance completes us, is an absurdity.
We lay down our own old dead works on the altar. We don't live the old life after we start following Jesus.
Weekly ordinances are not something that is ENTERED. You don't enter an ordinance.

What you profess is in conflict with what God says, that makes you wrong; it's heresy. The Sabbath was not an ordinance, it preceeded the law and is spoken of in Genesis. The Sabbath has nothing to do with works of righteousness hoping to attain Salvation...that's heresy.

________________
6Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,
“Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.” Heb 4

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from His. Heb 4

11Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. Heb 4

There are 4 witnesses against what you profess. And Jesus' quote is the 5th:
Jesus said, "I WILL give you rest."

It's future tense; Jesus has NOT YET given this rest. Hebrews witnesses with Jesus that the rest is yet to come.
______________________

The Sabbath has nothing to do with works of the flesh in trying to obtain righteousness. The Sabbath is simply rest, as in not doing work, not doing your own pleasure, but drawing near to God.

The Sabbath is a day of rest holy to God and therefore also holy to His people. The Sabbath precedes the law, is not an ordinance, and has nothing to do with works; it's simply God ordained rest in Him.

God was not doing works of the flesh or resting from works of the flesh. To say that God rested from works of the flesh is absurd.

Take it to the Lord.

You've fallen into twisted Scripture. Seek the Lord on this because you are preaching heresy.

 

[SoulWeaver]

What you profess is in conflict with what God says, that makes you wrong; it's heresy. The Sabbath was not an ordinance, it preceeded the law and is spoken of in Genesis. The Sabbath has nothing to do with works of righteousness hoping to attain Salvation...that's heresy.

________________
6Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,
“Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.” Heb 4

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from His. Heb 4

11Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. Heb 4

There are 4 witnesses against what you profess. And Jesus' quote is the 5th:
Jesus said, "I WILL give you rest."

It's future tense; Jesus has NOT YET given this rest. Hebrews witnesses with Jesus that the rest is yet to come.
______________________

The Sabbath has nothing to do with works of the flesh in trying to obtain righteousness. The Sabbath is simply rest, as in not doing work, not doing your own pleasure, but drawing near to God.

The Sabbath is a day of rest holy to God and therefore also holy to His people. The Sabbath precedes the law, is not an ordinance, and has nothing to do with works; it's simply God ordained rest in Him.

God was not doing works of the flesh or resting from works of the flesh. To say that God rested from works of the flesh is absurd.

Take it to the Lord.

You've fallen into twisted Scripture. Seek the Lord on this because you are preaching heresy.

I don't think you understood my post at all. I suggest take your crusade elsewhere. Have a blessed day.

 

[SheepMary]

The basic rule of the Lord is to love your God with all your heart, soul, and mind and others as yourself. All the rules given are ways to do that. But if a rule given in stone means you need to break the basic rule, then it is the basic rule you must follow. Christ broke the law of the Sabbath, as an example, to follow the law of love.

In more recent times in the Netherlands people broke the law telling them not to lie to the Nazi in order to save life.

How dare you say that Christ broke the law!
If Christ had broken the law He is guilty of sin and therefore could NOT have been raised from the dead! Stop your heresy!
Jesus Christ was absolutely sinless and NEVER broke any part of the law. He is the law. You do not have understanding of what you speak.

Where are you people getting all this false doctrine? How terrible!!!

 

[SheepMary]

I don't think you understood my post at all. I suggest take your crusade elsewhere. Have a blessed day.

It's the Word of God that YOU DISREGARD in favor of your fanciful man-u-factured, made-up HERESY.

YOU PREACH HERESY. REPENT.

 

[SoulWeaver]

It's the Word of God that YOU DISREGARD in favor of your fanciful man-u-factured, made-up HERESY.

YOU PREACH HERESY. REPENT.

You think arguing people on BDF and your yelling at them in print is going to make some impact in anyone's spiritual life. That's just ridiculous. Stuff like this and especially on the internet, never edifies anyone it only indulges the flesh. But do what you must. Keep screaming at people that they are heretics if it will alleviate you and make you feel "legit" in whatever it is you believe, you attacked me for no reason I only pointed out the rest was found in Christ as opposed to an ordinance, I didn't actually focus on the whens, you got worked up out of nowhere. Seems you have a big need to show you know everything, so the stage is yours.

 

[lenna]

ok Sheep Mary

I don't have time right now to respond to my op, but I am asking you to TONE IT DOWN please

don't accuse people of heresy. you are going to destroy the entire thread arguing that way

 

[lenna]

How dare you say that Christ broke the law!
If Christ had broken the law He is guilty of sin and therefore could NOT have been raised from the dead! Stop your heresy!
Jesus Christ was absolutely sinless and NEVER broke any part of the law. He is the law. You do not have understanding of what you speak.

Where are you people getting all this false doctrine? How terrible!!!

take a chill pill. your behavior is obnoxious. I created this thread for DISCUSSION and ideas. not for someone to come along and take it over and accuse others

par for the course though I guess. anytime someone brings something to the table that requires thought, someone comes along and screams so that the truth is forgotten

 

[Magenta]

Jesus was in the temple. The temple is made of stone. Jesus was writing (with the finger of God) on stone. No sand.
((Just like the 10 Commandments were written in stone by the finger of God.))

Scripture does not say Jesus wrote on stone in John 8, just simply "the ground."

 

[SheepMary]

You think arguing people on BDF and your yelling at them in print is going to make some impact in anyone's spiritual life. That's just ridiculous. Stuff like this and especially on the internet, never edifies anyone it only indulges the flesh. But do what you must. Keep screaming at people that they are heretics if it will alleviate you and make you feel "legit" in whatever it is you believe, you attacked me for no reason I only pointed out the rest was found in Christ as opposed to an ordinance, I didn't actually focus on the whens, you got worked up out of nowhere. Seems you have a big need to show you know everything, so the stage is yours.

That's not going to work. Don't fault me for rejecting your heresy. Don't fault me for giving the truth to protect the sheep.
What you've posted is false and dangerous and leads the sheep astray. The things you say don't fit into the Word of God.

To post heresy is throwing dirt in the pure water of the Word. That is not ok. God is very clear in the Scriptures but you don't believe the Scriptures, instead you've clung to false doctrine. False doctrine is destructive and must be quenched.

What you've written is fanciful made-up junk that is NOT of God. It's not the same as God, it's not welcome with the truth; it contradicts the truth which is clearly spoken in the Scriptures that I gave you and others that are not posted.

Every Word of God proves true. He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His Words let He rebuke you and you be found a liar. Prov 30:5-6

Here's the thing with Holy Spirit, He leads us to all truth. Holy Spirit has given these Scriptures but you've refused to see/hear them in support of your fringe theory. Read it for what it says. Take it before the throne of grace and find out from God what the truth is. By His grace and for His glory, I already have. And when you take this before God He will tell you that the Sabbath was never taken away. We still observe the Sabbath to this day as disciples of Jesus Christ. God will tell you only truth, but you must ask Him.

I strongly encourage you to post directly from the Word of God.