Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
NO, it stands to reason we have a will. To use the word "free" it means there is nothing higher than our will. So, unless you can explain the Scriptures where God overrides man's will, you are in a circular argument.
Using the word “free” doesn’t mean our will is higher than God’s will. If you’ve ever sinned, and you have, you’ve gone against God’s will.

You couldn’t have sinned if you didn’t have the freedom to do so. To say otherwise is to say it was God’s will that you sinned. Free will is reality and the fact that you disagree doesn’t change reality.
 
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
The biggest issue with once saved always saved isn't the security of the believer, but articulating what it means to be saved especially if it is based on the individual's belief. At what point of belief is one "saved"? How convinced must one be in their thinking before it is salvific?

No, salvation while eternally secure must be continually contended for. Never getting so comfortable in our salvation that we neglect the sanctifying process we have been engaged in.

We must finish the race, press on to make it our own, lay aside the sin that so easily ensnares us and run with endurance. To behave as if we have already arrived is entirely failing to live the Christian life.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
Using the word “free” doesn’t mean our will is higher than God’s will. If you’ve ever sinned, and you have, you’ve gone against God’s will.

You couldn’t have sinned if you didn’t have the freedom to do so. To say otherwise is to say it was God’s will that you sinned. Free will is reality and the fact that you disagree doesn’t change reality.
I agree about man being able to choose, except for the term itself, free will.
Real freedom happens when man operates under God.
Take any addiction, and you see what I mean. A person in any habitual sin is enslaved and controlled by sin, and not free.
So if we use the term "free will" it might shift us away from the biblical paradigm unintendedly.
God looses the prisoners, breaks prison walls, etc.
I stopped using the term "free will" (thank you Magenta!) and call that choice possibility "man's will (or choice)" and am open to hear a yet better term if there is any... :)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
To behave as if we have already arrived is entirely failing to live the Christian life.
Anyone who understands Gospel truth will also know that there are three phases to salvation: (1) justification, (2) sanctification, and (3) glorification. And the first two should not be confused with each other. To be justified by grace is to be saved by grace through faith. That is an accomplished fact from God's perspective (Romans 4 &5). Then Romans 6-8 deals with sanctification.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(Rom 6:1,2)
 
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
Anyone who understands Gospel truth will also know that there are three phases to salvation: (1) justification, (2) sanctification, and (3) glorification. And the first two should not be confused with each other. To be justified by grace is to be saved by grace through faith. That is an accomplished fact from God's perspective (Romans 4 &5). Then Romans 6-8 deals with sanctification.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(Rom 6:1,2)
I'm with you on salvation being an accomplished fact from God's perspective, but our perspective makes it where we can't know who or at what point someone is in fact "saved" so the only real option we have is to pursue salvation with zeal continually refreshing ourselves anew in God's grace.

If even Paul did not know until very near the end I see no reason more "ordinary" believers should be more strongly assured.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
I see no reason more "ordinary" believers should be more strongly assured.
John tells us that we should be strongly assured (1 John 5:13):

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
 
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
John tells us that we should be strongly assured (1 John 5:13):

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Given the context of 1 John, especially the 5th chapter the assurance John is giving there is not the sort that is often peddled in OSAS. In fact, John writes exceedingly about the need for demonstrating our love in order to have such assurance.

Let's not forget shortly prior to that, the very "these things have I written" is stuff like:
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. (1 John 3:9)

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. (1 John 5:3-4)

So John isn't preaching the sort of thing that is often preached under OSAS in that a single confession of faith is salvific but an assurance based on continuing in the faith.
 

J-T

Banned
Jul 29, 2020
477
78
28
Heaven Bound
If your faith and trust is not placed in Christ and His Finished Work at Calvary Cross, i.e, “The Blood of Jesus,” you become a self righteous hypocrite! Why? Because you get to take care of you without the help of the Holy Spirit. Without your faith and trust in the Sacrifice you remove yourself from the Lord. Gal. 1:6

The Bible says that Christ and Him Crucified is the power and the wisdom Of God. Without your faith and trust placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified, there will only be a worldly wisdom, even though you use scriptures!
Hello there! I hope you won't mind, but I have a lot of tough questions for you, and hope you won't mind carefully considering each one. Do you suppose that you could be much more precise as to what actually is the finished work of the cross at Calvary that The Lord Jesus Christ did? What specifically did He do and for what purpose? Have you considered that Jesus fulfilled every prophecy written about Him concerning the very Gospel for salvation, and this also relates to the very necessity to become Born Again? How does a man become born again? Is it by the will of the flesh, since it is a matter of record that Donnie Swaggart said more than once that "a person can be born again, lost again, born again, lost again, born again, lost again, ....." to the unpteeth time, and whatever "state" the person was in at the time of their death determine their fate of destiny? REALLY? Would this also have something to do with the will of man? REALLY? What is written in John 1:1-14; highlighting verses 12 & 13? What is written in verse 13? BORN AGAIN BY WHOM? Did you catch that? The answer is God! Not the will of man, nor the will of the flesh, but of God! Do you understand what that means? It means what is written; You can't will yourself to be saved! It just doesn't work like that. Are their other passages in the Bible that can give us further clarification of God's role in saving mankind? Did you catch that in verse 12 Who is it that does the saving? What POWER? What POWER FOR WHAT? Oh? POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD! Compare those holy words with The Lord Jesus Christ's words in John 14:6. If you like red letters, there's a red letter edition of The King James Bible, where Jesus' words are printed in red ink. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. What is the role of The Holy Ghost during the moment of a man's conversion? What does The Holy Ghost do and accomplish? Now, I'm certain that you have heard, or at least read in the Bible where the person being saved is SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, and have you also read and understood that this is the circumcision of the heart that is made without hands? Who does the sealing? Man or God? Oh, we both know that Pentecostalism, along with many others deny the SEALING POWER of THE HOLY GHOST. They say that a man, by his own will, can break that seal. REALLY? Did we just not read in John 1:12-13 that salvation has absolutely nothing to do with the will of man? Furthermore, have you also not read in the Bible where it is Jesus that openeth a door that NO MAN can shut, and how He also closeth a door that NO MAN can open? Who is man? Is not man the fallen sinful creature that Jesus Christ came to be crucified for? Also, have you not read in the scriptures where Jesus Christ made it perfectly clear that He came not to call the righteous to repentance, but sinners? And, did you also read in 1Timothy 1 where Apostle Paul said that this is a FAITHFUL saying that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners, with the providing of the list of all of the various types of sinners? Did you catch the word, "faithful", as well as the holy words, "according to the glorious gospel of the Blessed God"? If you read that passage most thoroughly, Jesus is our only answer to a good conscience. Again, I ask, have you also read in the Bible where people are saved by Jesus' righteousness, not their own? Have you ever actually read Apostle Paul's epistle to the churches at Galatia to grasp the fullness within the context to be able to comprehend what this single verse, Galatians 1:6 truly pertains to? Who is Apostle Paul in relationship to the Gentiles? Did you read when, where, how, why, and to what extent Apostle Paul withstood Apostle Peter to the face? How was it and why was it spoken, as written of how Peter and the other men that were with him, did not walk uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel? What did Paul say to Peter? How did Peter respond? What did Peter do after that? Did they get into a fist fight? OR did Peter humble himself with repentance? Did Peter, at any time lose his salvation? Did you notice that Paul was personally called and chosen by The Lord Jesus Christ, not only to be saved, but appointed and anointed with the FULLNESS of The Holy Ghost to be the very Apostle to the Gentiles? We know that Jimmy Swaggart was not, is not, nor ever will be the Apostle to the Gentiles, therefore, there's no way he could have more light than Apostle Paul did, as Jimmy Swaggart proclaimed before an International SBN Television audience, since Apostle Paul was CHOSEN by The True Light, Whom is The Lord God Almighty in the flesh, The True and Living Lord Jesus Christ! Did you catch that sermon and/or episode, if you did hear it live in person when Jimmy said that? No, he didn't come out and say that he was an Apostle, at least, not to the best of my knowledge, but how can one possibly suggest that they have more light than what was received by Apostle Paul, himself, from The True Light? You see, Jimmy was painting and boasting himself to be greater than Apostle Paul. Now, what's wrong with that? Is Jimmy's name written in the Bible? We certainly can observe that Jimmy has placed his own words in red ink, of his own wisdom and whatever, in amongst the words of The True and Living Lord Jesus Christ, Whom SPOKE THROUGH Apostle Paul! What did Jesus say about NOT ADDING TO NOR DIMINISHING FROM His words? Would you agree that it was presumptuous of Jimmy to do that? Has Jimmy never heard the written words of Hebrews 4:12? Have you? Is it Jimmy that revealeth understanding? OR IS IT THE HOLY GHOST THAT REVEALETH UNDERSTANDING? Know ye not that The Holy Ghost is God Almighty? Know ye not that The Holy Ghost is The Spirit of Christ, WHOM BREATHED THE HOLY SCRIPTURES? You see, Jesus Christ is the only way for salvation. Either a man is saved or man is not saved. There is no in between. The problem is that a whole lot of folks have placed their trust in man, rather than in God. They have followed after false teachers that deny the saving power of God, as they erroneously teach with the wisdom of their own words, thus leading multitudes to hell, who lose out on salvation because they became self-righteous being misled and misguided into believing in and becoming dependant upon their own will, and the will of other men, instead of the will of God to truly be born again. Apostle Paul spoke very clearly about the subject of "will worship" in the context of his epistle to saints and faithful brethren at Colosse. Have you ever prayed and meditated on those words of God written in the Book of Colossians? While reading the context, you'll find that Apostle Paul most adequately links "will worship" to the enemies of the cross of Christ. There is a reason why Apostle Paul gave distinct criteria in 2Corinthians 11 on how to spot a false Apostle. What else has Pentecostalism, including the Swaggarts, erred concerning the Scriptures? What will you do? Will you, by your own will continue following after the Swaggarts and Pentecostalism, or will you seek The Lord, according to His will, in repentance for the free gift of genuine salvation, which is eternal life?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,471
13,414
113
58
That is plainly speaking about FALSE TEACHERS. Not genuine Christians. Do you see how utterly confused you are. It is time to go back to SQUARE ONE after abandoning all your false beliefs.
Amen! Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men who have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19) In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1). Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
Lessons from John 10:26-29:

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

There are two groups of people:
(1) Those who do not believe and are not Jesus' sheep
(2) Those who are hearing and are following (present Greek tenses) Him are his sheep - This group has eternal life and will never perish, and is secure in the Father's hand

100% security for those who are hearing and following Him.
No security for those who are not his sheep

Which group are you in? Hearing and following? Or not believing?
The sheep in context are the jews .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
You can quote John 3:16 all you like nut you must harmonize the rest of Scripture. God so loved the world in What way? Who is the world? World is often used in Scripture to represent a limited group. Search the Scriptures on the use of the word Kosmos (world).

Oh and since I am a little off target for this thread. I to believe in eternal security for our Lord's true sheep.
Sheep are Jews not gentiles in 2020 .
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
Hello there! I hope you won't mind, but I have a lot of tough questions for you, and hope you won't mind carefully considering each one. Do you suppose that you could be much more precise as to what actually is the finished work of the cross at Calvary that The Lord Jesus Christ did? What specifically did He do and for what purpose? Have you considered that Jesus fulfilled every prophecy written about Him concerning the very Gospel for salvation, and this also relates to the very necessity to become Born Again? How does a man become born again? Is it by the will of the flesh, since it is a matter of record that Donnie Swaggart said more than once that "a person can be born again, lost again, born again, lost again, born again, lost again, ....." to the unpteeth time, and whatever "state" the person was in at the time of their death determine their fate of destiny? REALLY? Would this also have something to do with the will of man? REALLY? What is written in John 1:1-14; highlighting verses 12 & 13? What is written in verse 13? BORN AGAIN BY WHOM? Did you catch that? The answer is God! Not the will of man, nor the will of the flesh, but of God! Do you understand what that means? It means what is written; You can't will yourself to be saved! It just doesn't work like that. Are their other passages in the Bible that can give us further clarification of God's role in saving mankind? Did you catch that in verse 12 Who is it that does the saving? What POWER? What POWER FOR WHAT? Oh? POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD! Compare those holy words with The Lord Jesus Christ's words in John 14:6. If you like red letters, there's a red letter edition of The King James Bible, where Jesus' words are printed in red ink. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. What is the role of The Holy Ghost during the moment of a man's conversion? What does The Holy Ghost do and accomplish? Now, I'm certain that you have heard, or at least read in the Bible where the person being saved is SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, and have you also read and understood that this is the circumcision of the heart that is made without hands? Who does the sealing? Man or God? Oh, we both know that Pentecostalism, along with many others deny the SEALING POWER of THE HOLY GHOST. They say that a man, by his own will, can break that seal. REALLY? Did we just not read in John 1:12-13 that salvation has absolutely nothing to do with the will of man? Furthermore, have you also not read in the Bible where it is Jesus that openeth a door that NO MAN can shut, and how He also closeth a door that NO MAN can open? Who is man? Is not man the fallen sinful creature that Jesus Christ came to be crucified for? Also, have you not read in the scriptures where Jesus Christ made it perfectly clear that He came not to call the righteous to repentance, but sinners? And, did you also read in 1Timothy 1 where Apostle Paul said that this is a FAITHFUL saying that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners, with the providing of the list of all of the various types of sinners? Did you catch the word, "faithful", as well as the holy words, "according to the glorious gospel of the Blessed God"? If you read that passage most thoroughly, Jesus is our only answer to a good conscience. Again, I ask, have you also read in the Bible where people are saved by Jesus' righteousness, not their own? Have you ever actually read Apostle Paul's epistle to the churches at Galatia to grasp the fullness within the context to be able to comprehend what this single verse, Galatians 1:6 truly pertains to? Who is Apostle Paul in relationship to the Gentiles? Did you read when, where, how, why, and to what extent Apostle Paul withstood Apostle Peter to the face? How was it and why was it spoken, as written of how Peter and the other men that were with him, did not walk uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel? What did Paul say to Peter? How did Peter respond? What did Peter do after that? Did they get into a fist fight? OR did Peter humble himself with repentance? Did Peter, at any time lose his salvation? Did you notice that Paul was personally called and chosen by The Lord Jesus Christ, not only to be saved, but appointed and anointed with the FULLNESS of The Holy Ghost to be the very Apostle to the Gentiles? We know that Jimmy Swaggart was not, is not, nor ever will be the Apostle to the Gentiles, therefore, there's no way he could have more light than Apostle Paul did, as Jimmy Swaggart proclaimed before an International SBN Television audience, since Apostle Paul was CHOSEN by The True Light, Whom is The Lord God Almighty in the flesh, The True and Living Lord Jesus Christ! Did you catch that sermon and/or episode, if you did hear it live in person when Jimmy said that? No, he didn't come out and say that he was an Apostle, at least, not to the best of my knowledge, but how can one possibly suggest that they have more light than what was received by Apostle Paul, himself, from The True Light? You see, Jimmy was painting and boasting himself to be greater than Apostle Paul. Now, what's wrong with that? Is Jimmy's name written in the Bible? We certainly can observe that Jimmy has placed his own words in red ink, of his own wisdom and whatever, in amongst the words of The True and Living Lord Jesus Christ, Whom SPOKE THROUGH Apostle Paul! What did Jesus say about NOT ADDING TO NOR DIMINISHING FROM His words? Would you agree that it was presumptuous of Jimmy to do that? Has Jimmy never heard the written words of Hebrews 4:12? Have you? Is it Jimmy that revealeth understanding? OR IS IT THE HOLY GHOST THAT REVEALETH UNDERSTANDING? Know ye not that The Holy Ghost is God Almighty? Know ye not that The Holy Ghost is The Spirit of Christ, WHOM BREATHED THE HOLY SCRIPTURES? You see, Jesus Christ is the only way for salvation. Either a man is saved or man is not saved. There is no in between. The problem is that a whole lot of folks have placed their trust in man, rather than in God. They have followed after false teachers that deny the saving power of God, as they erroneously teach with the wisdom of their own words, thus leading multitudes to hell, who lose out on salvation because they became self-righteous being misled and misguided into believing in and becoming dependant upon their own will, and the will of other men, instead of the will of God to truly be born again. Apostle Paul spoke very clearly about the subject of "will worship" in the context of his epistle to saints and faithful brethren at Colosse. Have you ever prayed and meditated on those words of God written in the Book of Colossians? While reading the context, you'll find that Apostle Paul most adequately links "will worship" to the enemies of the cross of Christ. There is a reason why Apostle Paul gave distinct criteria in 2Corinthians 11 on how to spot a false Apostle. What else has Pentecostalism, including the Swaggarts, erred concerning the Scriptures? What will you do? Will you, by your own will continue following after the Swaggarts and Pentecostalism, or will you seek The Lord, according to His will, in repentance for the free gift of genuine salvation, which is eternal life?
The Holy Spirit, Works strictly within the parameters of the "Finished Work" i.e., "the Cross of Christ", which demands that our Faith be exclusively in the Cross of Christ. The reason is simple, that's were the price was paid, and the victory was forever won (Romans 6:1-14; 1 Cor. 2:2; Gal. 5; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15).

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)

Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

Most modern Christians simply do not know how to live for God; consequently, they make the attempt in all the wrong ways, which results in the words of the Apostle Paul being fulfilled in their lives, “O wretched man that I am . . .” (Rom. 7:24). Living for the Lord can be carried out successfully in only one way, and that is by the Believer understanding that everything we receive from the Lord comes to us exclusively through Christ as the Source and the Cross as the Means.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
113
The sheep in context are the jews .
In John 10:16 Jesus had said: "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd"

So, yes, right there in the context the "sheep" group he is talking to is the Jews. But he has also made it clear that he has other sheep - those Gentiles that will come to him in faith - and so - in verse 26 - when he says, "my sheep hear my voice . . . " - the truths expressed there are for all his sheep.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
113
Hello there! I hope you won't mind, but I have a lot of tough questions for you, and hope you won't mind carefully considering each one. Do you suppose that you could be much more precise as to what actually is the finished work of the cross at Calvary that The Lord Jesus Christ did? What specifically did He do and for what purpose? Have you considered that Jesus fulfilled every prophecy written about Him concerning the very Gospel for salvation, and this also relates to the very necessity to become Born Again? How does a man become born again? Is it by the will of the flesh, since it is a matter of record that Donnie Swaggart said more than once that "a person can be born again, lost again, born again, lost again, born again, lost again, ....." to the unpteeth time, and whatever "state" the person was in at the time of their death determine their fate of destiny? REALLY? Would this also have something to do with the will of man? REALLY? What is written in John 1:1-14; highlighting verses 12 & 13? What is written in verse 13? BORN AGAIN BY WHOM? Did you catch that? The answer is God! Not the will of man, nor the will of the flesh, but of God! Do you understand what that means? It means what is written; You can't will yourself to be saved! It just doesn't work like that. Are their other passages in the Bible that can give us further clarification of God's role in saving mankind? Did you catch that in verse 12 Who is it that does the saving? What POWER? What POWER FOR WHAT? Oh? POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD! Compare those holy words with The Lord Jesus Christ's words in John 14:6. If you like red letters, there's a red letter edition of The King James Bible, where Jesus' words are printed in red ink. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. What is the role of The Holy Ghost during the moment of a man's conversion? What does The Holy Ghost do and accomplish? Now, I'm certain that you have heard, or at least read in the Bible where the person being saved is SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, and have you also read and understood that this is the circumcision of the heart that is made without hands? Who does the sealing? Man or God? Oh, we both know that Pentecostalism, along with many others deny the SEALING POWER of THE HOLY GHOST. They say that a man, by his own will, can break that seal. REALLY? Did we just not read in John 1:12-13 that salvation has absolutely nothing to do with the will of man? Furthermore, have you also not read in the Bible where it is Jesus that openeth a door that NO MAN can shut, and how He also closeth a door that NO MAN can open? Who is man? Is not man the fallen sinful creature that Jesus Christ came to be crucified for? Also, have you not read in the scriptures where Jesus Christ made it perfectly clear that He came not to call the righteous to repentance, but sinners? And, did you also read in 1Timothy 1 where Apostle Paul said that this is a FAITHFUL saying that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners, with the providing of the list of all of the various types of sinners? Did you catch the word, "faithful", as well as the holy words, "according to the glorious gospel of the Blessed God"? If you read that passage most thoroughly, Jesus is our only answer to a good conscience. Again, I ask, have you also read in the Bible where people are saved by Jesus' righteousness, not their own? Have you ever actually read Apostle Paul's epistle to the churches at Galatia to grasp the fullness within the context to be able to comprehend what this single verse, Galatians 1:6 truly pertains to? Who is Apostle Paul in relationship to the Gentiles? Did you read when, where, how, why, and to what extent Apostle Paul withstood Apostle Peter to the face? How was it and why was it spoken, as written of how Peter and the other men that were with him, did not walk uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel? What did Paul say to Peter? How did Peter respond? What did Peter do after that? Did they get into a fist fight? OR did Peter humble himself with repentance? Did Peter, at any time lose his salvation? Did you notice that Paul was personally called and chosen by The Lord Jesus Christ, not only to be saved, but appointed and anointed with the FULLNESS of The Holy Ghost to be the very Apostle to the Gentiles? We know that Jimmy Swaggart was not, is not, nor ever will be the Apostle to the Gentiles, therefore, there's no way he could have more light than Apostle Paul did, as Jimmy Swaggart proclaimed before an International SBN Television audience, since Apostle Paul was CHOSEN by The True Light, Whom is The Lord God Almighty in the flesh, The True and Living Lord Jesus Christ! Did you catch that sermon and/or episode, if you did hear it live in person when Jimmy said that? No, he didn't come out and say that he was an Apostle, at least, not to the best of my knowledge, but how can one possibly suggest that they have more light than what was received by Apostle Paul, himself, from The True Light? You see, Jimmy was painting and boasting himself to be greater than Apostle Paul. Now, what's wrong with that? Is Jimmy's name written in the Bible? We certainly can observe that Jimmy has placed his own words in red ink, of his own wisdom and whatever, in amongst the words of The True and Living Lord Jesus Christ, Whom SPOKE THROUGH Apostle Paul! What did Jesus say about NOT ADDING TO NOR DIMINISHING FROM His words? Would you agree that it was presumptuous of Jimmy to do that? Has Jimmy never heard the written words of Hebrews 4:12? Have you? Is it Jimmy that revealeth understanding? OR IS IT THE HOLY GHOST THAT REVEALETH UNDERSTANDING? Know ye not that The Holy Ghost is God Almighty? Know ye not that The Holy Ghost is The Spirit of Christ, WHOM BREATHED THE HOLY SCRIPTURES? You see, Jesus Christ is the only way for salvation. Either a man is saved or man is not saved. There is no in between. The problem is that a whole lot of folks have placed their trust in man, rather than in God. They have followed after false teachers that deny the saving power of God, as they erroneously teach with the wisdom of their own words, thus leading multitudes to hell, who lose out on salvation because they became self-righteous being misled and misguided into believing in and becoming dependant upon their own will, and the will of other men, instead of the will of God to truly be born again. Apostle Paul spoke very clearly about the subject of "will worship" in the context of his epistle to saints and faithful brethren at Colosse. Have you ever prayed and meditated on those words of God written in the Book of Colossians? While reading the context, you'll find that Apostle Paul most adequately links "will worship" to the enemies of the cross of Christ. There is a reason why Apostle Paul gave distinct criteria in 2Corinthians 11 on how to spot a false Apostle. What else has Pentecostalism, including the Swaggarts, erred concerning the Scriptures? What will you do? Will you, by your own will continue following after the Swaggarts and Pentecostalism, or will you seek The Lord, according to His will, in repentance for the free gift of genuine salvation, which is eternal life?
Hint - If you break your writing into smaller paragraphs it will be easier to read and digest - as you have it many people will skip over it and not read it at all . . .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
In John 10:16 Jesus had said: "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd"

So, yes, right there in the context the "sheep" group he is talking to is the Jews. But he has also made it clear that he has other sheep - those Gentiles that will come to him in faith - and so - in verse 26 - when he says, "my sheep hear my voice . . . " - the truths expressed there are for all his sheep.
Do you have anything on ' sheep ' in Paul's letters to the church for example.?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
In John 10:16 Jesus had said: "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd"

So, yes, right there in the context the "sheep" group he is talking to is the Jews. But he has also made it clear that he has other sheep - those Gentiles that will come to him in faith - and so - in verse 26 - when he says, "my sheep hear my voice . . . " - the truths expressed there are for all his sheep.
Mat 15.24
But he answered and said, I am NOT SENT but unto the lost SHEEP of the house of ISRAEL .
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
113
Mat 15.24
But he answered and said, I am NOT SENT but unto the lost SHEEP of the house of ISRAEL .
But your answer ignores what I showed you in the context of John 10. Jesus ministered to the Samaritan woman and other non-Jews, but yes, very definitely his primary ministry was to the Jews.
 
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
You can quote John 3:16 all you like nut you must harmonize the rest of Scripture. God so loved the world in What way? Who is the world? World is often used in Scripture to represent a limited group. Search the Scriptures on the use of the word Kosmos (world).

Oh and since I am a little off target for this thread. I to believe in eternal security for our Lord's true sheep.
Uh oh, another pharisaic calvinist, and obviously a previous CC member who either left on his own accord or was banned.

You don’t join a group for the first time and immediately get involved in a discussion such as this and use derogatory words like calling someone a nut unless you have history here.