Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.

[Chris1975]

Single lines are sufficient to present the gist of a post. And your response shows that you still do not understand this subject, even though you quote a passage which confirms what I said. So let me show you from that passage that future glorification is guaranteed because salvation is also an accomplished fact today:

into this grace wherein we stand = ACCOMPLISHED FACT

and rejoice in hope of the glory of God = FUTURE GLORIFICATION GUARANTEED

by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us = ACCOMPLISHED FACT

being now justified by his blood = ACCOMPLISHED FACT

we shall be saved from wrath through him = FUTURE GLORIFICATION GUARANTEED

If you continue in the faith....

Colossians 1 v21-23a 21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard,

See...?

When does He present us holy, blameless and above reproach in His sight? If it were ONCE ONLY, AT THE BEGINNING, then there would be no reason for the verse to say "If indeed you continue in the faith". ----> you see, the reality is our sanctification is very much part and parcel of salvation. Without holiness (sanctification), nobody will see the Lord.

 

[EleventhHour]

Paul may have been saved,

Until you can accept that Paul was saved it would be very difficult to understand his writings.
He always wrote from a position of secure salvation.

He is not addressing earning, keeping, maintaining, attaining salvation in Philippians 3:10-11 but his focus is to have his life align with the life of Jesus his Lord and Saviour.

 

[posthuman]

There are plenty of scriptures that reference those who tasted the gifts of the Holy Spirit and left. You can say they never were in communion but that's a logical fallacy. No true Scotsman fallacy. The bottom line is no one knows with certainty who is saved and who is not.

that's very insightful of you -- but i do not think it is truly a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy, and here's why:
because it isn't true that no one knows with certainty who are the sheep and who are the goats; The Shepherd knows. He knows which are tares and which are wheat, and He sends His angels to separate them at the right time. so at least at the time of the harvest, His angels know. the Father knows, who gives the sheep to the Son. God alone knows who are His. Jesus knows He has not lost one.

so with regards to human judgement, yes, it certainly is the 'no true Scotsman' -- but very often in scripture something reads as though it is a contradiction, from an human perspective, and that thing is only resolved, and understood, when we take the perspective of the omniscient and omnipotent Savior God into account. what you point out is valid and useful, because it points to the necessary glory of God: all judgement is committed to the Son.
after all, He knows; He knows before all - He's the one who created them Scotch & Irish.

 

[J-T]

Given the context of 1 John, especially the 5th chapter the assurance John is giving there is not the sort that is often peddled in OSAS. In fact, John writes exceedingly about the need for demonstrating our love in order to have such assurance.

Let's not forget shortly prior to that, the very "these things have I written" is stuff like:
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. (1 John 3:9)

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. (1 John 5:3-4)

So John isn't preaching the sort of thing that is often preached under OSAS in that a single confession of faith is salvific but an assurance based on continuing in the faith.

It would be best to present and to discuss the full context of 1John, including that of chapter 5.

But, in the meantime, I hope you don't mind, but I have a few questions that I would request for you to please answer each one. Per 1John 5:3; are you confusing "his commandments" with the Law, better known as the Ten Commandments?

Also per verse 4; What does it mean to be "born of God"? And how does that relate to overcoming the world? What is faith, and what is the purpose of faith? Where does faith come from? Is faith something that you muster up by doing works to stay saved? Furthermore, are you the Author and Finisher of your own faith?

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

This is Part 1 of a 2 Part Post:

I had asked for you to please expound upon the Finished work on the cross, but I see a huge conundrum with your post, where you present the "Object Of Faith" to be associated with good works, performed by man, with selected portions of passages, taken out of context from the Bible, that have to do with the subject of good works, which although are instruction in righteousness, but have absolutely nothing to do with the work of salvation, and whether you realize it or not, you have confusingly worked them in to inadvertently tie good works in with salvation, as such is the case with your repeated reference to Romans 6:1-14.

The "Finished Work" that Jesus Christ did on the cross at Calvary is His work; His death, burial, and resurrection; His being nailed to the cross, nailing our sin unto the cross with Him, with His becoming a curse for us. Not my work; Not your work; Not the Swaggarts' work, nor any other man's work. Even though the Swaggarts and you claim not to teach a works salvation, you all still believe and teach a works salvation, as it made obvious with your linking Romans 6:1-14 as being the "Finished Work of Christ". I also see the word "cross" being substituted in place of the Gospel, (even though the cross of Christ is pertinent with the Biblical Gospel) along with faith in the object of the cross, rather than faith alone in Jesus Christ Himself for salvation, thus bypassing Jesus Christ with "another gospel" of maintaining good works. This is the very same philosophy taught by Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, and other false prophet groups, all of which are rooted from the Roman Catholic Church of which works salvation stems from. It is counterfeit Christianity.

Let's begin by looking at more context from Epeshians 2:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Do you see the distinction between the two? Salvation being a gift from God, which is solely by grace through faith in Jesus Christ APART FROM any works by man? That is what Apostle Paul clarified here, in this passage, as well as in numerous other scriptures to be read in full context of the epistles.

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

In Philippians 1:6 and in Roman's 9:28, Who did Apostle Paul say it is doing the work in the Christian? Is it not God that is doing the work, and not man? What work is God doing? Is it not the holy work of salvation which is of faith? You see, it's not man doing the work in man, it is God doing the work!

We see that God is doing the work in several passages; Here's another highlight from 2Thessalonians 1:10-12:

2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

2Th 1:12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, let's take a look at Romans 11:6;

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

In Romans 11:6, What did Apostle Paul say? Does this help you to understand the very important fundamental truth of Grace? Is Grace by works, any works? By continuing in your good works, does that solidify your salvation according to this passage? Of course not!

God only honors what God does. In you and through you, providing that your Faith is placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified. Not what we do.

Grace only flows when my faith is in the death of Jesus (Christ Crucified). The Holy Spirit will deliver this believer into the death, burial, Resurrection of Christ, and His Ascension. Rom. 8:2, Rom. 6:3-5, 2 Cor. 4:11-12, Gal. 2:21, Ephesians 2:6

As servants of Righteousness (Romans 6:18), and the only way we can continue to serve that Righteousness is by the Grace of God (Galatians 2:21). Which means the Grace of God is flowing into that Believer because their Faith is placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified. If the Believer Faith is not in Christ and Him Crucified (the death of Christ who loved us and gave Himself for us - Galatians 2:20, 1 John 4:9-10) you are out of the will of God. Which means we have removed ourselves from Him (Galatians 1:6).

All works must be produced and birth by the Holy Spirit or it is dead works, rotten fruit! (wood, hay, stubble) - 1 Cor. 3:12-15.

Everything that man does dies; everything Jesus does lives forever and is blessed (Psalms 1:3).

If it's done in the flesh, it will consume the person, i.e., "the bush"; however, if it's done by the Power of the Holy Spirit, the bush will burn and not be consumed (Exodus 3:2, Romans 8:2).

We live by what Jesus Christ did by Grace through Faith who loved us and gave Himself for us at the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won (Rom. 6:3-5, Philippians 1:21); His Obedience (Philippians 2:8, John 10:18), His Faith (Gal. 2:20-21), and His Love (Faith works by Love -Gal. 5:6). It is not our obedience, not our faith, and not our love, that we live by (Rom. 8:2, Gal. 2:18). We are united with Christ, therefore, God doesn’t rehabilitate us, He eliminates us. The Holy Spirit moves in to give us power to live Holy that causes us to walk in the newness of life (Ezekiel 36:26-37, Romans 8:11). Only by Faith in the Blood of Jesus have we been given eyes to see (John 3:3-5) and only Faith in the Blood of Jesus will you continue be able to see and not go blind again (2 Peter 1:9).

 

[throughfaith]

If you continue in the faith....

Colossians 1 v21-23a 21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard,

See...?

When does He present us holy, blameless and above reproach in His sight? If it were ONCE ONLY, AT THE BEGINNING, then there would be no reason for the verse to say "If indeed you continue in the faith". ----> you see, the reality is our sanctification is very much part and parcel of salvation. Without holiness (sanctification), nobody will see the Lord.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11¶In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
just a few verses after ( Col 2 )
Chapter 3
2Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

This is Part 2 of a 2 Part Post:

Now, what if a man does absolutely no work whatsoever at all, but believes on Jesus! Would you say that man is not saved? What did Apostle Paul write by inspiration of The Holy Ghost in Romans 4:5? Let's take a look at that verse to see if it is a prime example of salvation that is solely by grace through faith in Jesus Christ;

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Oh, I will say that good works are important, and that by doing good works, there will be rewards at the Judgement Seat of Jesus Christ, but they have absolutely nothing to do with mankind's salvation.

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Cor 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Have you ever really given much thought about the types of works that will be burned up in contrast to the works that will not be burned up? Do you see what whatever the works are; they have absolutely no bearing as the very means for salvation?

Now, here is a great example of a good work; Do you suppose that Apostle Paul will receive a reward for his work? Sure he will! But know that his salvation was already secure from the time that Jesus saved him in Acts 8-9

1Cor 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

Furthermore, Apostle Paul continually encouraged good works for the Brethren, in each passage; And it is worthy to mention that these are works that will not be burned up.

1Cor 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

1Cor 16:10 Now if Timotheus come, see that he may be with you without fear: for he worketh the work of the Lord, as I also do.

2Cor 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

There are a multitude of other verses and passages of scripture relating to the important subject of good works, but now, let's examine a few more passages to hammer the nails into the coffin of the false teaching and notion of keeping good works as means for salvation:

The first example I want to use for someone that had gotten involved in terrible sin is found in 1Corithians 5. Let's take a look to see 1. The extent of the sin; 2. What instruction Apostle Paul gave concerning what to do with the individual; 3. What was said about the state of the individual's salvation and was salvation lost? (Read the full context for the chastisement given to the Church there that was condoning the sin, and be blessed by the godly counsel that Apostle Paul gave!)

1Cor 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

1Cor 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

1Cor 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

1Cor 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

As ingregious as the incestual sin was, and with the severity of the necessary punishment, did the man lose his salvation? Absolutely not! Those are works that will be burned up, yet his soul shall be saved, as if by fire! I don't know about you, but I rejoice in the precious tender mercies of The Lord!!

There are other passages that come to mind, such as when Lot was caused to become drunk by his daughters, who had molested him. Then there was the situation with Samson, who had gotten drunk, and as a consequence, had his hair cut off and his eyes plucked out. These are two that are mentioned in the "Faith Chapter" of Hebrews 11. Oh, and then there was King David who had committed adultery with another man's wife, and even sent the man away to be killed on the battle front, and yet, King David is said, by God, to be a man after his own heart. We can go on and on, but the point is Jesus Christ came to save SINNERS and redeem them by His POWER, by His Blood, by fulfilling the law in just one word: "love". We have yet to get into those passages. It all comes down to Jesus saving sinners, and their being saved solely by grace through faith in him!

1Cor 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

P.S. If you read the preceding chapters of Romans 6, along with the subsequent chapters, you would discover that the full context is also on this very issue. Try starting with reading the rest of chapter 6, then go back to read chapter 5, then read chapter 7 to get the point.

Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jesus said; "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." - John 8:36

As He tasted death for ALL men by the grace of God (Hebrews 2:9) so that we who believe can taste that same death by faith (Romans 6:6-8, Galatians 2:20), and our declaration will be, “O taste and see that the Lord is good, blessed is the man that trusts in Him.”

And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Isaiah 32:17

Romans 4:5 teaches us that God only awards Righteousness only on the basis of Faith in Christ and His Finished Work. Our Faith must be placed exclusively in Jesus, the Son of God, and Jesus, the Lamb of God to be awarded Righteousness. If we preach Jesus alone and ignore the Cross (the Lamb of God), that is another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4). This is sin, a insult to God!

Holiness and Sanctification are actually the same thing. Our holiness is obtained by faith and trust in Christ and what He did at the Cross. Without such Faith, there is no holiness, and there is no Salvation.

The gospel remains to be the only avenue through which Righteousness is revealed and experienced (Romans 1:16-17), and without the experience of Righteousness there is no Holiness, and without Holiness, no one can see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

 

[Nehemiah6]

...23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard...

Why did Paul exhort the Colossians in this manner when he clearly taught that justification is an accomplished fact? The answer is found in verse 28: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

That word "perfect" means complete, mature, and stable. It does not mean sinlessly perfect, but grounded and settled in Christ and in God's truth. Paul wanted all Christians to grow from babes in Christ to mature and godly Christians who could stand against the assaults of Satan. This is further confirmed in Ephesians 4.

The "hope of the Gospel" mentioned in verse 23 corresponds to "the hope which is laid up for you in Heaven" (v 5) which is not only a guarantee of glorification but also a guarantee of the eternal inheritance laid up in Heaven for every saint. "Hope" here is expectation, not wishful thinking.

But the reason Paul uses "if indeed you continue" is because of the Gnosticism and Judaizing that was creeping into the churches (as you will note in chapter 2), and would cause people to either (a) doubt their salvation, (b) think that they needed to add something to their salvation, or (c) go off into some bizarre doctrines. We see this in the next chapter where he says Beware lest any man spoil you through [1] philosophy and [2] vain deceit, after [3] the tradition of men, after [4] the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (v 8).

All of this would impact on their sanctification, hence their "perfection", and that is what that verse is talking about. These believers would remain eternally secure, but be tossed about by every wind of doctrine. Paul even mentions the worshipping of angels in that context.

 

[Bbrdrd]

Until you can accept that Paul was saved it would be very difficult to understand his writings.
He always wrote from a position of secure salvation.

He is not addressing earning, keeping, maintaining, attaining salvation in Philippians 3:10-11 but his focus is to have his life align with the life of Jesus his Lord and Saviour.

Sounds like you're dictating to the text what it's supposed to read through inference. The text itself states that what he has not yet achieved is the resurrection not simply having his life align.

Now, given the focus on righteousness coming by faith that Paul regularly emphasizes you're right its not about earning salvation but his attitude is markedly different than the one forwarded by those who preach OSAS.

 

[Blik]

No. anyone claiming that people can lose their salvation is false doctrine.

That is a terrible accusation. Please give scripture to back this up. I can give scripture that sin kills, and I have never see anywhere that says all sin kills except sub committed by someone who was once a Christian.

 

[Guojing]

That is a terrible accusation. Please give scripture to back this up. I can give scripture that sin kills, and I have never see anywhere that says all sin kills except sub committed by someone who was once a Christian.

1 John 3:14-15

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Was John preaching a false doctrine then?

 

[Blik]

1 John 3:14-15

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Was John preaching a false doctrine then?

Where!! in these words does it make the statement that when you abide in life you then are unable to choose death? You are adding to scripture.

 

[Guojing]

Where!! in these words does it make the statement that when you abide in life you then are unable to choose death? You are adding to scripture.

Its actually the opposite, if you hate your brother, you have no eternal life abiding in you.

 

[SoulWeaver]

If you continue in the faith....

(...)

and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard,

It looks to me that people who preach salvation insecurity are the ones moving people away from the hope of the gospel which they heard, and stopping faith in the finished work of Jesus.
We're supposed to be focused on renewal of our minds, on making God happy, not trying to pull rugs under feet and convince people they are not saved, it's unprofitable, why not just teach people to walk the walk, we would then all have agreement. The New testament is focused on grace and walking the walk (balanced message of Mercy and Truth), apostles were exhorting wherever needed, exhortation is the rod that helps work salvation out because the born again person will not ignore it. They were not constantly contending with people that they aren't saved, they were correcting. Good news? I don't know what would that be according to how some people take the Bible. The focus doesn't seem right. God wants profit and results, not losses and wastes.

 

[throughfaith]

That is a terrible accusation. Please give scripture to back this up. I can give scripture that sin kills, and I have never see anywhere that says all sin kills except sub committed by someone who was once a Christian.

Jesus died for the sins of the world .

 

[Blik]

Its actually the opposite, if you hate your brother, you have no eternal life abiding in you.

Of course, but we are speaking about the declaration that it is not possible to loose your salvation. According to that you would be able to go ahead and hate your brother, if you were once saved it you wouldn't need Christ any more??????

 

[Guojing]

Of course, but we are speaking about the declaration that it is not possible to loose your salvation. According to that you would be able to go ahead and hate your brother, if you were once saved it you wouldn't need Christ any more??????

If one wants to find scripture that states one can lose their salvation, looking at Hebrews to Revelations will be how you can get those.

 

[Nehemiah6]

That is a terrible accusation.

Not an accusation but a warning to those who may be uncertain.

Please give scripture to back this up.

THE ETERNAL SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture... My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (John 19:9,27-29)

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John 11:25,26)

There are many more Scriptures to support this Gospel truth.

 

[throughfaith]

If you continue in the faith....

Colossians 1 v21-23a 21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard,

See...?

When does He present us holy, blameless and above reproach in His sight? If it were ONCE ONLY, AT THE BEGINNING, then there would be no reason for the verse to say "If indeed you continue in the faith". ----> you see, the reality is our sanctification is very much part and parcel of salvation. Without holiness (sanctification), nobody will see the Lord.

Whats your thoughts on Predestination? The bible says that we are sealed by the HS until the day of redemption. ( Eph 4.30 / Eph 1.13 And that After we are sealed that we are predestined to The Adoption which is the redemption of the body ( Rom 8.23/ eph 1.5 ) How do you not see we cannot undo what God does to a person After they believe. Eph 1.13 .
And even if you could leave ,you would have to be slightly insane to demand or want to go to hell .
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (KJV)
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one
body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV)
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Ephesians 1:13 (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after
that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 5:30 (KJV)
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Romans 12:5 (KJV)
5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

 

[throughfaith]

If you continue in the faith....

Colossians 1 v21-23a 21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard,

See...?

When does He present us holy, blameless and above reproach in His sight? If it were ONCE ONLY, AT THE BEGINNING, then there would be no reason for the verse to say "If indeed you continue in the faith". ----> you see, the reality is our sanctification is very much part and parcel of salvation. Without holiness (sanctification), nobody will see the Lord.

denominations read the scriptures and its usually back to front. They will quote from the OT , The tribulation and verses aimed at Maturing in the Faith ; discipleship , the unclear to the clear and or for rewards and put all these is the ' conditional salvation ' bucket. Then I notice the Gosepl message is then changed from Believing to ' doing ' . Grace to works . The law changes into ' deeds of faith ' . Consistency goes out the window with Conditional salvation . How many works are enough , who's making the rules ? The Nt salvation becomes harder than the OT sacrafices to keep. You would also be better off dying early on in your walk as a believer because the longer you live the increasing odds you will mess up your salvation. Suicide might be easier than walking with the Lord ,but I guess some will say that would forfiet salvation also ? should we envy those that die in the Lord days after they recieve Jesus ? Like the thief on the cross . oh what sweet assurance he had not worrying about going to hell by enduring to the end in good works .