Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.

[Chester]

Lessons from John 10:26-29:

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

There are two groups of people:
(1) Those who do not believe and are not Jesus' sheep
(2) Those who are hearing and are following (present Greek tenses) Him are his sheep - This group has eternal life and will never perish, and is secure in the Father's hand

100% security for those who are hearing and following Him.
No security for those who are not his sheep

Which group are you in? Hearing and following? Or not believing?

 

[gb9]

He that is born of God does not sin.

How does it feel to be contrary to scripture?

Or are you past feeling?

Ephesians 4:19 KJV
[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

let's go to the root- the Biblical definition of sin is - missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so.

so, to say you do not sin you mean you always hit the mark, never fall short of a standard. always do the right thing in every situation .

do you qualify as sinless based on this truth??

nope. and neither does anyone else.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

How does a man retain what he can not obtain?

 

[posthuman]

To me Paul is teaching about our end.
What does it mean, to die with Christ? What does that look like?

Not unlike Romans 7. Baptism is a figure of it, and a new Spirit in a person contends with the will of the flesh. Before I did with Him, I agreed with my flesh - now we are at odds

 

[Chris1975]

You really have a knack for wrenching verses out from their context...

for, just three verses earlier, verse 5 says this:

"even being dead in the trespasses, did make us to live together [G4806 - synezōopoiēsen - made [us] alive together-with] with the Christ, (by grace ye are [present indicative active] having been saved [*PERFECT TENSE, participle, middle or passive - V-RPM/P-NMP (<--"perfect tense" represented by the "R" here)] )"

https://biblehub.com/text/ephesians/2-5.htm [see the last word in the chart at bottom, at link, and its accompanying " V-RPM/P-NMP " (i.e. "perfect tense"/"R")]



*Perfect Tense -

"ACTION COMPLETED at a SPECIFIC POINT of TIME in PAST (●) with results CONTINUING into the PRESENT (▬►). In certain contexts the results are PERMANENT."

NKJV 1 Corinthians 15v2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
- so TDW look at the conundrum you have in this vesre then. If SAVED is a done deal and cannot be altered post initial belief then you have an interpretation problem with verse 2 above.
- Whereas you ARE, IF YOU ---> pointing to conditional. Meaning that Ephesians 2v8 and 2v5 is only considered a done deal IF YOU CONTINUE in the faith.
- therefore we are BEING SAVED (in continuous process is the right interpretation). It was an accomplished act fulfilled by JESUS but conditional on our continue faith in Jesus. The act He accomplished in the Past, is only being realised in our walk of faith (ongoing).

 

[EleventhHour]

let's go to the root- the Biblical definition of sin is - missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so.

so, to say you do not sin you mean you always hit the mark, never fall short of a standard. always do the right thing in every situation .

do you qualify as sinless based on this truth??

nope. and neither does anyone else.

Check the status ... this is a former member.
Every possible scripture and argument was presented over and over... obviously to this person error was more valuable than truth.

 

[gb9]

Check the status ... this is a former member.
Every possible scripture and argument was presented over and over... obviously to this person error was more valuable than truth.

thanks.

did not realize the person had got kicked out.

 

[tourist]

thanks.

did not realize the person had got kicked out.

Here on minute and gone the next. Apparently, he caught the train to Bansville.

 

[Chris1975]

NKJV 1 Corinthians 15v2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
- so TDW look at the conundrum you have in this vesre then. If SAVED is a done deal and cannot be altered post initial belief then you have an interpretation problem with verse 2 above.
- Whereas you ARE, IF YOU ---> pointing to conditional. Meaning that Ephesians 2v8 and 2v5 is only considered a done deal IF YOU CONTINUE in the faith.
- therefore we are BEING SAVED (in continuous process is the right interpretation). It was an accomplished act fulfilled by JESUS but conditional on our continue faith in Jesus. The act He accomplished in the Past, is only being realised in our walk of faith (ongoing).

And we can continue with this line of inquiry: Colossians 1 v21-23a 21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard,

See...?

When does He present us holy, blameless and above reproach in His sight? If it were ONCE ONLY, AT THE BEGINNING, then there would be no reason for the verse to say "If indeed you continue in the faith". ----> you see, the reality is our sanctification is very much part and parcel of salvation. Without holiness (sanctification), nobody will see the Lord.

 

[EleventhHour]

you see, the reality is our sanctification is very much part and parcel of salvation. Without holiness (sanctification), nobody will see the Lord.

The Good News IS ... the person born from above is justified and in positional sanctification... read Hebrews.

Therefore you have not correctly understood Colossians 1 v21-23a 21

You have two options when it comes to salvation .....

Appeal to God on the merit of your own righteousness/sanctification or lack of wickedness/sinfulness to be saved

or Accept the merit of Jesus Christ and the completed work He accomplished.

 

[Chris1975]

The Good News IS ... the person born from above is justified and in positional sanctification... read Hebrews.

Therefore you have not correctly understood Colossians 1 v21-23a 21

You have two options when it comes to salvation .....

Appeal to God on the merit of your own righteousness/sanctification or lack of wickedness/sinfulness to be saved

or Accept the merit of Jesus Christ and the completed work He accomplished.

Sanctification means holiness. It means being set apart (from worldliness). For God's purposes.

Now if you go ahead and think that living according to your own will willful sinful ways will inherit you salvation, you are sorely mistaken. Look at how the bible addresses those vis-a-vis sanctification:

Hebrews 10v26 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

 

[EleventhHour]

Sanctification means holiness. It means being set apart (from worldliness). For God's purposes.

Now if you go ahead and think that living according to your own will willful sinful ways will inherit you salvation, you are sorely mistaken. Look at how the bible addresses those vis-a-vis sanctification:

Hebrews 10v26 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Cor 6:11 ESV

Do you accept that all sin was paid for at the cross.
Why are we placed in position of sanctification (not to be confused with progressive)..................... because of Jesus, He was Holy, not by our effort.

no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Jesus is the only sacrifice... there is no other unlike under the OT system.

 

[Chris1975]

Do you accept that all sin was paid for at the cross.

All REPENTED OF SIN. Not all rebelliousness, unrepented of sin.

 

[EleventhHour]

All REPENTED OF SIN. Not all rebelliousness, unrepented of sin.

And what does the word "repent" mean biblically speaking.

As well do you think you can be aware of every sin?

 

[Chris1975]

And what does the word "repent" mean biblically speaking.

As well do you think you can be aware of every sin?

Repent means a change of mind
A change of mind means a change in behaviour
We are to be led by the Spirit, who convicts the world of sin and righteousness.
Do not quench the Spirit.

 

[Duskey]

He that is born of God does not sin.

How does it feel to be contrary to scripture?

Or are you past feeling?

Ephesians 4:19 KJV
[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

If Micaiah-imla was truly sinless as he claimed to be, he would not have been banned. 🍺

 

[SoulWeaver]

If Micaiah-imla was truly sinless as he claimed to be, he would not have been banned. 🍺

Btw, why was Micaiah banned? I saw this morning. What did he do?

 

[Duskey]

Judas was a apostle which means at one time he was saved and sealed until the day of redemption until he turned aside to go to his own place." Acts 1:24-25 NASB

Judas was baptizes. Judas baptizes others., Judas was anointed. Judas was empowered. Judas cast out Devils. Judas healed the sick. Judas preached the gospel.

Did Judas believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior?

 

[Duskey]

Btw, why was Micaiah banned? I saw this morning. What did he do?

I don’t know why he was banned but if you click on his name then click on posts, you can read his most recent posts and maybe see a downward trend of heresy or hostility.

 

[EleventhHour]

Btw, why was Micaiah banned? I saw this morning. What did he do?

Teach heretical doctrine for starters.