Torah Observant Christians.

You said, "Scripture does not tell anyone to "go to church" on the Sabbath."
I showed you the scripture that says to assemble on the Sabbath.
You made the simple assertion that scripture does not tell anyone to meet on the Sabbath. I showed you it does.

What 'church' do you suppose Christ is referring to here that existed before His resurrection?

"...tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church..." - Matthew 18:17

As you can see, 'church' is not confined solely to a New Testament assembly of the people of God. It's the assembly of God's people before and after Christ's resurrection. The assembly of God's people were in fact commanded in scripture to meet on the Sabbath. You said no scripture tells anyone to do that.

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I am sorry for this long response, but I respond accordingly to what is asked...

I am not giving you an opinion, I am giving you Scriptures of what God make clear when he first spoke. Read Jeremiah 31: 31 slow... Behold, the days come saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah (not a replacement, but a new covenant).

Verse 32, not according to the one that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake (he is talking about the commandments on the tablets of stone that he made not with the two houses, but with their fathers).

Verse 33, he is telling them about the new covenant that he is making... I will put my law in their inward parts and write them in their hearts.

Hebrews 8 confirms Jeremiah 31 and if one denies this they are deny God at his word.
Everything that is being stating has been debated throughout history, but why? Because men decided to distort the word of God and you have men who understands what God made clear when he first spoke and trying to bring it to the attention of those who been impressed with distorted teachings.

Yeshua summed up the Ten commandments with two commandment and he commended the teacher of the law when he asked him how interpret you the law. Therefore, if two commandment fulfills the Ten Commandments how can one say that the Ten Commandments are done away with? It is all because they do not want to keep the one day God specifically gave to keep holy and that is the Sabbath. Yeshua never did away with the Sabbath, if he did, why did he continue to hold it and why didn't he say the Sabbath is done away with? Give me Scriptures that proves that God's word is wrong. Not to mention, the Scriptures tell us, if we walk after the Spirit, the Spirit will fulfill the righteousness of the law.

You are correct on the Sabbath. To answer your question where in the NT does Jesus or any Apostle say believers are to keep the Sabbath as the Jews did? Before one can respond to that question one needs to understand that the Sabbath was being held, right? That Yeshua kept the Sabbath even after he said that he is Lord of the Sabbath, right? After his resurrection believers continued to meet on the Sabbath, right? So, there was not need to say to continue in the Sabbath, they understood that it had to be kept holy and they continue with keeping it holy. That is a falacious question that was brought about to deprive one from keeping the Sabbath holy. That is my me asking you, where did Yeshua say to do away with the Sabbath when we know that he never said that.

Now you will say, he is the Lord of the Sabbath, he can say that because he understand Exodus 20 what it says the Sabbath is of the Lord, and if he is Lord the Sabbath is his, wouldn't you agree?

What does the John 4:20-23 have to do with the Sabbath? We serve God every day, but God specifically said to keep the Sabbath holy.
As for John 5:16-18, they accused him of breaking the Sabbath, but did he? If you answer yes then your Savior broke the law therefore he cannot be the Son of God. Before Pilate he broke no law. What Yeshua was actually pointing out that they were following the tradition of me who took the law of God and distorted it, what we see nowadays.

As for Romans 14:5-6, he that regarded the day regarded it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. According to this verse we probably agree that it is talking about the 7th day of the week which included the Sabbath day, so if you do not regard the seventh day unto the Lord, you are not regarding the Sabbath day unto the Lord, if you are regarding the seventh day unto the Lord you are regarding the Sabbath, but do not realize it. See, I will not judge one because in their ignorance they do not realize that if they are regarding the seventh day unto the Lord they are keeping holy.

God dealt with the Jews and the Jews were to teach the Gentiles, but they rejected Messiah. Now, Paul being the Apostle to the Gentiles it was something new to them and because of this it was find with the Holy Spirit for them to obstain from 4 things, not that the God did away with the rest. As they learned God's way eventually they with follow the way God intended it. The Romans have distorted God's word, they wanted nothing to do with the Jews and by them removing the Sabbath they Separated the Jewish believers from Gentile believers. Remember that the Jews were being persecuted in Rome.

Bottom line, the Ten Commandment is a walk to obedient and has nothing to do with Salvation, Salvation is the gift of God.

It would be so wonderful if I could talk you into keeping your posts to scripture and speaking of it in a way that is not rude and accusing others. Perhaps the cause of your rudeness is that you maybe think you have special powers to be always correct so you can correct other's statements saying they are wrong without any speaking of what you think is correct. You make it a personal judgement. Honestly, your beliefs do not always follow scripture and you are human like the rest of us. That means you can challenge, say what you believe is the correct interpretation, but your position of needing to judge all others is not right. Scripture tells us no one who is human is always correct in everything and you are human.

I congratulate you on this post, it is done without rudeness.

You give the truth so well!

The Torah, is the first 5 books of the Old Testament, our Bible. Jesus Christ nailed all the ordinances, & statutes of the old animal blood ritual, and sacrifices to the cross when he suffered, died, and resurrected from the dead. 1 Cor. 5:7, Paul states ...."For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:" then in Vs. 8 "Therefore let us keep the feast."
Jesus kept the feasts of God:
Luke 22:15 "And He said unto them, "With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God."
But, for future observance of Passover, He established the wine & the bread, or Communion, as it is now called, instead of sacrificing & roasting a lamb, and eating bitter herbs with it, as described in Exodus.

Jesus did not nail the Ten Commandments, aka the Royal Law, to the cross.
Matt. 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfil.
Vs. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Vs. 19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of the least of these commandments and teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Vs. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:15 "If ye love Me, keep My commandments."
John 14:21 "He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him."
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, "If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him."

Jesus is the living Word.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Vs. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Vs. 3 All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. .....
Vs.14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life."

Jesus is the living Word.

1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is transgression of the law."
Vs. 5 "And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin."

The Messiah come said, if you love me keep my commandments. After he reiterated....his commandments. You'll rationalize that in some way, but whatever way you dismiss it matters not one bit. Because Jesus said it. And only those who don't honor his teachings try to tell us what he really meant to say.
Shockingly, there are many here who commit to that very thing.
I wonder why.

Jesus did away with the sacrificial laws when He died on the cross as the offering for the sins of all people.
And during his ministry He said, if you love me keep my commandments.

It would be odd for Jesus to say that if he meant to say, His laws no longer apply.

Really easy , as to your first challenge. I look at what Jesus said. Then I look at what anyone else may say regarding the overall theme of what Jesus said. And if they contradict Jesus in any way, I follow Jesus. Not them. Be they an Apostle writing to the churches he founded and who grew to refer to his teachings as his gospel, or lay people on forums.

nice of you to imply that i dishonor Christ and teach against His word because i pointed out there is no more temple or sacrifices.


if you are truly Torah observant, and you & another witness convict me of false prophecy in this topic, then you must stone me to death. literally. Deuteronomy 13, 17 & 18

or are those jots and tittles you don't consider you ought to obey?

I think you should realize the depths to which you plunge when arguing for your beliefs of scripture. Even when it is contrary to scripture.

all i'm saying is scripture:

whoever breaks even the least part of Torah is guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10
there is no more temple in Jerusalem and even if there were, there is no more sacrifice for sins Hebrews 10:26
no one for nigh on two thousand years has ever observed Leviticus 5, therefore no one for an eon has observed Torah.
a person cannot any longer; the veil is torn. Matthew 27:51

There is much symbolism in scripture and the temple and the blood of animals as sacrifice were symbols. Actually, there is currently temples and sacrifices. We are the temple and we are to treat our bodies as to the Lord. Christ is our sacrifice.

I find it hilarious that you look for ways that people still sin when they profess to put their heart and soul into not sinning. Are you free of sin? If you are a human then you are not. Then why in the world would you point to the sin of others.

I don't think you have a clue about the stoning of the OT. They did not have prisons or any other way to support justice as we do today, but the stoning was done only after strict rules so it was not done unjustly. The people chosen to handle the stoning were carefully chosen. God was part of their government and just as we have laws against traitors, they had laws against traitors to the lord.

so, you are admitting that you only 'symbolically' observe Torah -- you don't "actually" observe Torah?

you are saying, 'some of those jots and tittles are only symbolic' ?

Actually what they actually said is :

It's something out of In Living Color reruns. "The sky is blue" "So, you're saying you don't like the color blue?"

you clearly do not understand what i am saying if you think i'm 'looking for ways that people still sin'

you clearly don't comprehend what's being said either.

does the Torah command that you bring a goat, a lamb, or birds to the place of meeting, and give them to the priests for their blood to be shed at the altar whenever you sin, yes or no
is Leviticus 5 made of jots and tittles, yes or no
do you keep it, yes or no
does scripture say that if you do not keep ever single jot and tittle of the law you are guilty of breaking all of it, yes or no
so does in truth actually keep Torah, yes or no

i wonder if you hardly understand what Blik said either.
she made 3 statements.
the first is relevant and i replied to it. she confessed that she doesn't keep the jot and tittle of the Torah, she accepts that Christ has done away with it by establishing Himself as the atonement for sin.
the second was an ignorant personal attack against me.
the third was a diversion away from the fact that she doesn't observe every jot and tittle and she spoke without knowledge.

is it because i did not respond immediately to baseless insults and ignorant diversions, you accuse me of being a liar?
or is it because you are having trouble following the discussion so you though best recourse is to slander me?

but since you objected i wrote another post and answered to Blik about the mockery she had also posted, that the wise should have overlooked without mention. happy?