Torah Observant Christians.

[crossnote]

I believe when Jesus reiterated the laws and said until Heaven and Earth pass away not one jot nor tittle shall be removed from the law, that I'll believe Jesus. And take on the name, Judaizer, that some Christians cast about when this is the case for those of us who follow Christ.

I think you left out 'til all be fulfilled'. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets.
Besides, the Law has not passed away, but if you had read Paul's explanation that in Christ we died to the Law that we may be wed to another. Yes, Paul and Jesus do not contradict each other but Paul has explained what Jesus' words meant in light of the Death and Resurrection of Jesus (the Gospel). You would do well to heed Paul just as well since His Words were inspired by the Holy Spirit just as much as Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John's words were when they wrote of Jesus in the four Gospels.


Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
(Rom 7:1-6)

 

[Whispered]

I think you left out 'til all be fulfilled'. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets.
Besides, the Law has not passed away, but if you had read Paul's explanation that in Christ we died to the Law that we may be wed to another. Yes, Paul and Jesus do not contradict each other but Paul has explained what Jesus' words meant in light of the Death and Resurrection of Jesus (the Gospel). You would do well to heed Paul just as well since His Words were inspired by the Holy Spirit just as much as Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John's words were when they wrote of Jesus in the four Gospels.


Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
(Rom 7:1-6)

No, I didn't leave it out. Jesus fulfilled the law, but you'll notice that he said, until Heaven and Earth pass away...

What did Jesus say in the Book of Luke chapter 24?
"44 Then he (Jesus) said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance for[c] the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. "



Jesus Foretells His Death a Third Time
The Book of Luke chapter 18
31 And taking the twelve, he said to them, “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the Son of Man by the prophets will be accomplished. 32 For he will be delivered over to the Gentiles and will be mocked and shamefully treated and spit upon. 33 And after flogging him, they will kill him, and on the third day he will rise.” 34 But they understood none of these things. This saying was hidden from them, and they did not grasp what was said.

17. “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” The Book of Matthew 5


Remember, Jesus also said, until Heaven and Earth pass away.
All that Jesus fulfilled in the time He was first here, and yet, Heaven and Earth are still here. That means not all has been fulfilled according to the Messiah prophecy.

The Book of Luke chapter Luke 1 and verses 32 and 33
"He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end. "

And the Psalm verses also that speak to Messiah.
All is fulfilled with Jesus second coming. (The Book of Matthew 19)

Jesus reiterated the 9 commandments of the ten in His teachings and also said,if you love me keep my commands.
Some think He didn't reiterate the Sabbath commandment because in Him we have our Sabbath rest. True. However, Jesus also told us that the Sabbath was made for us, for man. We have our rest in Jesus and Sabbath day is when we are to rest in Him and leave the worldly concerns of our life to take a rest in their own right. There is no scripture wherein Jesus says we are not to honor the Sabbath.

And that teaching wherein some say, all that is of and for the Jews forget one thing. Gentiles were grafted into the fold of Jesus chosen people.

The Book of John chapter 10
16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”


See the Book of Matthew 8
11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, 12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

 

[crossnote]

No, I didn't leave it out. Jesus fulfilled the law, but you'll notice that he said, until Heaven and Earth pass away...

What did Jesus say in the Book of Luke chapter 24?
"44 Then he (Jesus) said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance for[c] the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. "



Jesus Foretells His Death a Third Time
The Book of Luke chapter 18
31 And taking the twelve, he said to them, “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the Son of Man by the prophets will be accomplished. 32 For he will be delivered over to the Gentiles and will be mocked and shamefully treated and spit upon. 33 And after flogging him, they will kill him, and on the third day he will rise.” 34 But they understood none of these things. This saying was hidden from them, and they did not grasp what was said.

17. “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” The Book of Matthew 5


Remember, Jesus also said, until Heaven and Earth pass away.
All that Jesus fulfilled in the time He was first here, and yet, Heaven and Earth are still here. That means not all has been fulfilled according to the Messiah prophecy.

The Book of Luke chapter Luke 1 and verses 32 and 33
"He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end. "

And the Psalm verses also that speak to Messiah.
All is fulfilled with Jesus second coming. (The Book of Matthew 19)

Jesus reiterated the 9 commandments of the ten in His teachings and also said,if you love me keep my commands.
Some think He didn't reiterate the Sabbath commandment because in Him we have our Sabbath rest. True. However, Jesus also told us that the Sabbath was made for us, for man. We have our rest in Jesus and Sabbath day is when we are to rest in Him and leave the worldly concerns of our life to take a rest in their own right. There is no scripture wherein Jesus says we are not to honor the Sabbath.

And that teaching wherein some say, all that is of and for the Jews forget one thing. Gentiles were grafted into the fold of Jesus chosen people.

The Book of John chapter 10
16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”


See the Book of Matthew 8
11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, 12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

I think you missed my point. Yes, the Law still stands but in Christ we have died to the Law. (again Rom 7:1-6 and Gal 2:19-21)
You are going to have to come up with a way of how those truths align with our walk.
As far as the Sabbath goes, we are to find our rest in Jesus. He is our Sabbath. (Hebrews chaps 3&4 summarized in 4:14-16.)
Failure to find rest in Jesus' person and work is an afront to His redemptive work for us. In a sense we are saying it is insufficient and we need to add our 2¢.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

The Law was given to the Hebrews to show them what sin was. Paul refers to this in Romans chapter 7. If Humans were able to keep the law and never break it(If one law is broken all of them are) there would be no need for sacrificial atonement.

------------------

The law was given for one to be obedient to God's word. Example, don't shalt not commit adultery, you not only know that adultery is sin, but the fact that you were obedient to the word of God you kept it. Gentile believer are not understanding this and that is because they been impress with when one keeps the law they are working. Keeping the law has nothing to do with the gift of Salvation God gives one, but when one is obedient to the the it is because they are saved.

Now, weigh fairly and truthfully the above and see if it is according to Scriptures. Men of God were obedient to the law of God, just that the Gentile believers have adapted to the Romans distorted view because they wanted nothing to do with the Jews. Let me make myself clear, the new covenant God did not make it with the Gentiles, but with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the one he made with their fathers which was on tablets of stone. Gentiles refuse to accept this because it would mean they were wrong all the times and this is not about being wrong, this is about allowing the Spirit of God to teach us the truth of God's word, what God made clear when he first spoke.

 

[Judges1318]

If it is a mater of a brother with a weak conscience, we are to give him space, but if it is a matter of another actually teaching falsely (i.e. righteousness comes through law-keeping) then we are to confront them.
It's not a matter of differing opinions but the truth of God's Word.

I agree completely, but I can honestly tell you I think I've only encountered a single person who said you had to keep the law to earn salvation. All the others I've talked to over the years in various forums know and affirm that law keeping is not for the purpose of justification (Paul's justification).

Besides the exception noted above, I have never in any way sensed any of these law keepers were just kidding themselves and were really just trying to earn salvation by their law keeping (okay, maybe one, lol). The light suddenly went on for me and I realized they were keeping the Festival cycle for the same reason that you and I, for example, don't steal, and don't commit adultery. We're quite adamant about that, and make very sure that we are obedient that way, but that hardly means we are trying to earn our salvation. And so it is with them and their law keeping.

I've learned lots of insightful things from Torah observant Christians, though I feel no compulsion to keep the literal Festival cycle myself. I know where they're coming from. I get it. I'm not going to take that away from them. If they want to know why I'm convinced I don't have to be Torah observant (for all that means in this discussion) like I have to be observant of 'do not steal', etc. then I will gladly engage them on that. It's actually one of my favorite subjects. But in the meantime, I let them love God and praise Him and experience Him and give thanks to Him the way they feel God wants them to do that.

 

[Judges1318]

the Gentile believers have adapted to the Romans distorted view because they wanted nothing to do with the Jews.

...for fear of being persecuted with them. This be true.

If it wasn't for the early Catholic Church deciding they wanted their own system of worship we'd all be 'going to church' in the fashion of the old covenant system of worship. Not so we can earn our salvation, but for the same reason we now adhere to the system of worship the Catholics invented and gave us.

Learning church history was a real eye opener for me. Not many Christians know why we do things the way we do now. We just think things are the way they are because God ordained it to be this way. Not so true, people. Do some homework.

 

[Grandpa]

Any time we obey Christ in any way we are working at the law. Are you telling us we should sin so that we do not work at the law?

Righteousness is a Gift.

Not something you gain by your work at the law.


Any time you obeyed Christ it was a gift. NOT your work. I'm telling you to receive His Gift and stop banging your head against the wall with your flawed circular reasoning.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

...for fear of being persecuted with them. This be true.

If it wasn't for the early Catholic Church deciding they wanted their own system of worship we'd all be 'going to church' in the fashion of the old covenant system of worship. Not so we can earn our salvation, but for the same reason we now adhere to the system of worship the Catholics invented and gave us.

Learning church history was a real eye opener for me. Not many Christians know why we do things the way we do now. We just think things are the way they are because God ordained it to be this way. Not so true, people. Do some homework.

---------------
You are correct!

When Christians today learn church history they are not given all the facts. satan's intention was to distort the truth of God's word to separated the Gentile believers from the Jewish believers and the way he did it was by removing the Sabbath day, changing it to Sunday. Through the Scriptures the Sabbath day was still being head and they were meeting on the Sabbath day. Jews in Rome were being persecuted because Rome wanted nothing to do with the Jews and by them removing the Sabbath day they pulled themselves away from the truth of God's word and from the Jews.

 

[Aerials1978]

------------------

The law was given for one to be obedient to God's word. Example, don't shalt not commit adultery, you not only know that adultery is sin, but the fact that you were obedient to the word of God you kept it. Gentile believer are not understanding this and that is because they been impress with when one keeps the law they are working. Keeping the law has nothing to do with the gift of Salvation God gives one, but when one is obedient to the the it is because they are saved.

Now, weigh fairly and truthfully the above and see if it is according to Scriptures. Men of God were obedient to the law of God, just that the Gentile believers have adapted to the Romans distorted view because they wanted nothing to do with the Jews. Let me make myself clear, the new covenant God did not make it with the Gentiles, but with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the one he made with their fathers which was on tablets of stone. Gentiles refuse to accept this because it would mean they were wrong all the times and this is not about being wrong, this is about allowing the Spirit of God to teach us the truth of God's word, what God made clear when he first spoke.

The gift of salvation and the New Covenant is for all mankind(Jew and Gentile alike). There is plenty of scripture that attests to this starting in Genesis and ending in Revelation.

You are right though, salvation has come through Israel and the Hebrews. The Holy Roman Church believes that it has become the way to Heaven. This not the case. Scripture also tells us about the restoration of Israel to God. The eternal city of God will be a new Jerusalem.

Being obedient to God doesn’t just mean following the moral law(Ten Commandments) but also listening when the Spirit speaks to you. As believers(and even non) we hear his voice our hearts. It’s up that us to either listen or not.

If the Old Covenant was sufficient and perfect, there would have been no need for to Christ to come to Earth suffer the cross. I get what you’re saying, but don’t go so far back that you being to lose sight of that. I have known some who called themselves Christians and become Torah observant. It didn’t end well.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

The gift of salvation and the New Covenant is for all mankind(Jew and Gentile alike). There is plenty of scripture that attests to this starting in Genesis and ending in Revelation.

You are right though, salvation has come through Israel and the Hebrews. The Holy Roman Church believes that it has become the way to Heaven. This not the case. Scripture also tells us about the restoration of Israel to God. The eternal city of God will be a new Jerusalem.

Being obedient to God doesn’t just mean following the moral law(Ten Commandments) but also listening when the Spirit speaks to you. As believers(and even non) we hear his voice our hearts. It’s up that us to either listen or not.

If the Old Covenant was sufficient and perfect, there would have been no need for to Christ to come to Earth suffer the cross. I get what you’re saying, but don’t go so far back that you being to lose sight of that. I have known some who called themselves Christians and become Torah observant. It didn’t end well.

-----------------------------
Let me make this clear according to the Scriptures - Read Jeremiah 31:31-34, you will see that the new covenant was between God and the two houses, the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not with the Gentiles. If I am wrong you will have to prove the Scriptures wrong not me, it is what God made clear when he first spoke. As for Salvation, that was for all men which God, to the Jews first, then Greeks and Gentiles. When a Gentile become a believer he becomes part of the commonwealth of Israel.

God speaks to us through the Scriptures and yes we need to be obedient, not only to his law, but what he ask of us.

One has to put the law of God in its right perspective, the problem is that some christian believers when they become law observance they are not taught correctly or are taught to make it part of Salvation. At one time, I was gathering with Torah observers (Messianic), I did not agree with some of the things they taught. The leader of that group who is not a rabbi, I gave him a book I wrote and apparently I concluded he trashed it, he literally said unto me that as he was reading he noticed I leaned more toward christianity. At Shabbat they have a tradition that they open the door inviting or waiting for Elijah and I smile within because I am not waiting for Elijah, he has nothing to do with my Salvation, I am waiting for Yeshua who is my Salvation. I became good friends with a believer who was getting involved with the Hebrew root movements and thank me becaush God allowed me to say the right words for his eyes to be open and he contacted me to thank me, I told him that he needs to thank God. We becme good friends.

 

[Aerials1978]

-----------------------------
Let me make this clear according to the Scriptures - Read Jeremiah 31:31-34, you will see that the new covenant was between God and the two houses, the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not with the Gentiles. If I am wrong you will have to prove the Scriptures wrong not me, it is what God made clear when he first spoke. As for Salvation, that was for all men which God, to the Jews first, then Greeks and Gentiles. When a Gentile become a believer he becomes part of the commonwealth of Israel.

God speaks to us through the Scriptures and yes we need to be obedient, not only to his law, but what he ask of us.

One has to put the law of God in its right perspective, the problem is that some christian believers when they become law observance they are not taught correctly or are taught to make it part of Salvation. At one time, I was gathering with Torah observers (Messianic), I did not agree with some of the things they taught. The leader of that group who is not a rabbi, I gave him a book I wrote and apparently I concluded he trashed it, he literally said unto me that as he was reading he noticed I leaned more toward christianity. At Shabbat they have a tradition that they open the door inviting or waiting for Elijah and I smile within because I am not waiting for Elijah, he has nothing to do with my Salvation, I am waiting for Yeshua who is my Salvation. I became good friends with a believer who was getting involved with the Hebrew root movements and thank me becaush God allowed me to say the right words for his eyes to be open and he contacted me to thank me, I told him that he needs to thank God. We becme good friends.

With regard: to the passage from Jeremiah, God was speaking to the Israelites in exile. It was a promise that God had made to bring them back to the promise land.

God had made many convents with His chosen people. The convent of circumcision was an example.

( The Hebrew word for a covenant is ברית (b'riyt, Strong's #1285 ), a noun derived from the verb ברה (B.R.H, Strong's #1262), which means "to select the best.")

God renewing of the His convent:
if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14

You take a section of scripture and try to make it say something that it doesn’t. Context is everything. As for the promise to Gentiles:

Therefore I want you to know that God's salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!"
Acts28:28

I will plant her for myself in the land; I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'"
Hosea 2:23

There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.
People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God.
Luke 13:28-29

Are you obedient to just the moral law or all of them? 613 in all.

 

[crossnote]

I have never in any way sensed any of these law keepers were just kidding themselves and were really just trying to earn salvation by their law keeping (okay, maybe one, lol). The light suddenly went on for me and I realized they were keeping the Festival cycle for the same reason that you and I, for example, don't steal, and don't commit adultery. We're quite adamant about that, and make very sure that we are obedient that way, but that hardly means we are trying to earn our salvation. And so it is with them and their law keeping.

True, but where they step over the line is thinking that keeping the law contributes to their sanctification at least by keeping them in the faith.
BTW I had spent some time in Messianic Congregations and even though they declare 'we are one man in Yeshua' it didn't work out that way in practice, because if you didn't fully participate in the booth building (Sukkot) or the other festivals or didn't bring the right 'Kosher' foods, you were just a bit 'less than' the others.
Also I was taken back by their emphasis on Moses over Paul or even Abraham (another sign of their preference of 'law-keeping' over faith).
I would never put the moral law (not stealing or adultery etc.) on the same level as a Festival cycle. We can't compare the fruit of the Spirit with shadows and types of things to come.

 

[Blik]

I believe when Jesus reiterated the laws and said until Heaven and Earth pass away not one jot nor tittle shall be removed from the law, that I'll believe Jesus. And take on the name, Judaizer, that some Christians cast about when this is the case for those of us who follow Christ.

This is so true. If we follow Christ and do as He did we will go to church on the Sabbath that scripture tells us of, Saturday or the last day of the week and we will also honor the feasts. Christ never told us to toss out the law of Moses.





















Scripture tells us that after the Holy Spirit was made available to all men we were to follow what the spirit told us and not need to have rituals to remind us. To be fleshly fleshly circumcised was given to remind us that we belong to God and diet that eliminated any garbage eating animal was given to remind us to keep clean in thought word and deed. The Holy Spirit now takes their place. But we are still to worship as God tells us to. Now, that is called being a judaizer.

Some say that God spoke to only Jews, and nothing God told them applies to gentiles. Scriptures tells us that there is a spiritual Israel and all believers belong to that Israel.
Rom. 11:17, Gal. 3:29.

 

[Aerials1978]

This is so true. If we follow Christ and do as He did we will go to church on the Sabbath that scripture tells us of, Saturday or the last day of the week and we will also honor the feasts. Christ never told us to toss out the law of Moses.





















Scripture tells us that after the Holy Spirit was made available to all men we were to follow what the spirit told us and not need to have rituals to remind us. To be fleshly fleshly circumcised was given to remind us that we belong to God and diet that eliminated any garbage eating animal was given to remind us to keep clean in thought word and deed. The Holy Spirit now takes their place. But we are still to worship as God tells us to. Now, that is called being a judaizer.

Some say that God spoke to only Jews, and nothing God told them applies to gentiles. Scriptures tells us that there is a spiritual Israel and all believers belong to that Israel.
Rom. 11:17, Gal. 3:29.

So when the Lord gave the vision to Peter telling him to eat the unclean food, what was the the Lord saying to him other then preach the Gospel to the Gentiles?

 

[Blik]

True, but where they step over the line is thinking that keeping the law contributes to their sanctification at least by keeping them in the faith.
BTW I had spent some time in Messianic Congregations and even though they declare 'we are one man in Yeshua' it didn't work out that way in practice, because if you didn't fully participate in the booth building (Sukkot) or the other festivals or didn't bring the right 'Kosher' foods, you were just a bit 'less than' the others.
Also I was taken back by their emphasis on Moses over Paul or even Abraham (another sign of their preference of 'law-keeping' over faith).
I would never put the moral law (not stealing or adultery etc.) on the same level as a Festival cycle. We can't compare the fruit of the Spirit with shadows and types of things to come.

Should we base our understanding of God on the actions of some people in a certain church or the truth?

 

[Dino246]

This is so true. If we follow Christ and do as He did we will go to church on the Sabbath that scripture tells us of, Saturday or the last day of the week and we will also honor the feasts. Christ never told us to toss out the law of Moses.

Scripture does not tell anyone to "go to church" on the Sabbath. When in the flesh, Jesus never "went to church"... not any day of the week.

 

[posthuman]

I believe when Jesus reiterated the laws and said until Heaven and Earth pass away not one jot nor tittle shall be removed from the law, that I'll believe Jesus. And take on the name, Judaizer, that some Christians cast about when this is the case for those of us who follow Christ.

i believe there are a lot of jots and tittles in the law that you don't believe you ought to keep.
you don't make blood offerings and you don't give Levites in the temple their portion. there aren't Levites for you to bring your gift to and there isn't a temple for you to offer blood at.
and when is the last time you stoned a witch to death?

you'll rationalize these things away saying Christ is our sacrifice and God is judge. and that is true, and good. but the fact remains that these things are written in the law in jots and tittles, and if you say you do not need to carry them out, you are saying you don't need to keep the jots and the tittles of the law: that they are shadows passed away and the true substance is revealed in the coming of the Messiah.

 

[posthuman]

IMO there is no such thing as a 'Torah-observant Christian' -- there isn't even a Torah-observant Jew.
it is impossible. Torah requires oblations and blood offerings at the earthly temple. there is no earthly temple; there is no earthly Levite high priest.
there are only hypocrites who say they keep all the letter of the law of the Sinai covenant but who in reality do not. whoever keeps the whole law and stumbles at one single point of it is guilty of breaking it all. did you splash the blood of every firstborn male animal born in your house against the altar of the LORD at the tabernacle or temple? no? then you are guilty of breaking the whole Torah. there is no more temple, there is no more Levitical priesthood, there is no more sacrifice for sin: therefore there are no more Torah observant people on earth. in establishing the second He has taken away the first.

 

[Judges1318]

True, but where they step over the line is thinking that keeping the law contributes to their sanctification at least by keeping them in the faith.

Maybe, but certainly the disciplines of the faith, whatever we think they are, help us to avoid falling into sin and unbelief. For example, I think personal Bible study and fellowship with the body help to sanctify me in regard to my personal growth and steadfastness in the faith. I can't see any reason why what they do can't possibly aid them in the same way that my disciplines aid me in my sanctification. Anything that keeps a person heavenly minded the whole day through can't help but to keep the road blocks to sanctification at a minimum. I'm confident that commemorating the ministry of Christ through the disciplines of the old covenant Festival cycle could do that.

BTW I had spent some time in Messianic Congregations and even though they declare 'we are one man in Yeshua' it didn't work out that way in practice, because if you didn't fully participate in the booth building (Sukkot) or the other festivals or didn't bring the right 'Kosher' foods, you were just a bit 'less than' the others.

I'm sure you actually having been in a Messianic congregation qualifies you to know more about this than I do. But even I can see how their meetings might have their share of disputes just like ours do. We're human. And we're not all perfectly educated and trained in the truths of God.

And an interesting point about living in booths at the end of the Feast of Tabernacles. I think the law says it's exclusively for the native born Jew (Leviticus 23:42).

Also I was taken back by their emphasis on Moses over Paul or even Abraham (another sign of their preference of 'law-keeping' over faith).

Yeah, that's kind of scary. I'd have to talk to them more to be able to say I see that too.

I would never put the moral law (not stealing or adultery etc.) on the same level as a Festival cycle.

You and I wouldn't. But they do. And for conscience sake. And Paul tell us to honor that. They are sinning if they don't follow their conscience. Just as we are sinning if we don't follow our conscience in whatever it is that our conscience is talking to us about.

We can't compare the fruit of the Spirit with shadows and types of things to come.

I wouldn't rule out any spiritual application and insights into the fruit of the Spirit coming from the types and shadows of the law and that period of time. For example, this account from the story of the spies sent out to explore Canaan:

21So they went up and explored the land from the Desert of Zin as far as Rehob, toward Lebo Hamath. 22They went up through the Negev and came to Hebron, where Ahiman, Sheshai and Talmai, the descendants of Anak, lived. (Hebron had been built seven years before Zoan in Egypt.) 23When they reached the Valley of Eshkol, a they cut off a branch bearing a single cluster of grapes. Two of them carried it on a pole between them, along with some pomegranates and figs. 24That place was called the Valley of Eshkol because of the cluster of grapes the Israelites cut off there. 25At the end of forty days they returned from exploring the land.

26They came back to Moses and Aaron and the whole Israelite community at Kadesh in the Desert of Paran. There they reported to them and to the whole assembly and showed them the fruit of the land. 27They gave Moses this account: “We went into the land to which you sent us, and it does flow with milk and honey! Here is its fruit. - Numbers 13:21-27

This can be a picture of Jesus going on ahead of us into the heavenly realm after the Crucifixion and sending back the Holy Spirit to the people of God. Or it could be a picture of the prophet or teacher who has spied out the good land ahead of us and who through his ministry shares the fruit of the land he has experienced for the rest of us to see and taste for ourselves.

 

[crossnote]

Should we base our understanding of God on the actions of some people in a certain church or the truth?

The truth. And comparing it with the HebrewRoots movent...I'm not impressed.
Did you know the majority of congragants in the Messianic Congregations are Gentiles? True Jewish Christians know better than to go back under the Law.