Trinity haters on CC

Tertullian making a trinity like statement is not a group of Christians proclaiming a belief, that would come 75 years later, like I already said,

I didnt say principles, elements, or bits and pieces, I said a formal teaching of the doctrine of the trinity, I even gave you an example of what that meant.

There was little “force” applied to the Arias generation nor was the much force applied to the next few generations, we do not see that until around the 600s.

The true church, you mean rome? They are the ones that killed Jesus, killed/imprisoned the 12 Apostles and st Paul, that church?
Interesting that when we apply what Jesus taught, fruits, to these two churches, rome and alexandria, we get the opposite of what your saying.
First of all the Alexandrian Christians never killed people to spread their teachings, they also didnt have a political agenda being as Christianity was one of many beliefs in the area and all were welcome.

does this mean you dont have any examples of non trin churches persecuting people?

The Arians conducted persecutions after Constantine died. In fact, they almost overcame true Christianity.

Are you familiar with this?

This is so incredibly ignorant....but it is very typical of heretics who have spun church history to accomodate their persecution complex.

Rome was only one bishopric of several in the true church. Major bishoprics were Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople and Rome.

The bishop of Rome, Sylvester, didn't even show up at the Council of Nicea. He sent a few representatives instead.

Rome didn't even have a "pope" in any sense until about 600 AD, with Pope Gregory. Even then, the Roman Catholic Church didn't exist in the form we know it until after the Great Schism. There were bold claims to supremacy after about 450 ad, but they considered themselves to be one of several bishoprics of the true church until the Great Schism.

When you read history, you must realize that the word "catholic" means, basically, pure in teachings. It came about largely to distinguish itself from Arians. Arians and anti-Trinitarians would not have been "catholic" in the sense that they were not real Christians.

Concerning the ones who killed Jesus and the 12 apostles, it's laughable that you claim they were killed by Roman Catholics since they didn't even exist in the form you are claiming. Jesus was killed by the Roman government at the demand of the Jews. The apostles were martyred by different groups, including Jews and secular Romans (not Roman Christians..that's crazy).

By the way, Alexandrian Christians were not Arians...Arians are not Christians. Alexandria had a bishopric of true believers, but they were not Arians. Arians are false believers.

For everyone else, realize that I, too, was caught up in this nutty, conspiracy theory view of Christianity. My guess is that jaybird88 is sitting at home in a bunker surrounded by cultic literature that is feeding his theology. He probably doesn't have a fellowship at all, and if he does, it is some cultic group (perhaps Sabbathkeepers) who hold similar conspiracy theory level views that feed their vain minds with a martyr complex. They view themselves as being the lone defenders of the true faith.

I suggest that you read good books on Church history, such as Nick Needham's 2000 Years of Christ's Power, and realize that church history displays the relentless march of Christians toward glory, with sinful episodes and growth along the way.

And, realize that there are dozens of cultic groups teaching the same essential conspiracy theory level views as jaybird88 is portraying. Don't be fooled by them, and led off into some goofy cultic movement.

I will tell you one thing those types of people don't talk about much: Jesus. After leaving these groups, I found that out. They are obsessed with their little proof-texts claiming that Christians are a false version of the truth. And, in the process, they fail to give Jesus the honor he is due. That is why they hate the teaching that he is God....they don't give honor to Him.

The Arians conducted persecutions after Constantine died. In fact, they almost overcame true Christianity.

Are you familiar with this?

Hi Garee, not sure, so I am asking this question for clarification. Do you believe in three persons in the godhead?

That's right. The actual term for the Christian belief is monotheistic trinitarianism.

Jesus Christ as the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity is equal to the Father:

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel, which means, God with us..." (St. Matt. 1, 23);

The author of the Arian heresy was Arius, a native of Lybia, and a priest of Alexandria, who, in A.D. 318, began to publish his errors. He was condemned by a council of Lybian and Egyptian bishops, and that sentence was confirmed by the Council of Nice, A.D. 325. After the death of Constantine the Great, the Arians found means to ingratiate themselves into the favor of the emperor Constantinus, his son and successor in the east; and hence a persecution was raised against the orthodox bishops and clergy. The celebrated Athanasius, and other bishops, were banished, and their sees filled with Arians.

In Egypt and Lybia, thirty bishops were martyred, and many other Christians cruelly tormented; and, A.D. 386, George, the Arian bishop of Alexandria, under the authority of the emperor, began a persecution in that city and its environs, and carried it on with the most infernal severity. He was assisted in his diabolical malice by Catophonius, governor of Egypt; Sebastian, general of the Egyptian forces; Faustinus, the treasurer; and Heraclius, a Roman officer.

The persecutions now raged in such a manner that the clergy were driven from Alexandria, their churches were shut, and the severities practiced by the Arian heretics were as great as those that had been practiced by the pagan idolaters. If a man, accused of being a Christian, made his escape, then his whole family were massacred, and his effects confiscated.

From the Foxe Book of Martyrs

Yes God with us not God is us. Jesus had the same treasure in a body of death .No power according to what the eyes see.

I have no idea where your going with all the rome bishops, what catholic means and popes?

rome means imperial rome, and yes, they were the ones that killed Jesus, Herod , the governor, the corrupt priest leadership, all roman. Surely you dont believe all those leaders were installed by the Jewish people?

What exactly are you thinking is some crazy conspiracy theory? You have used this a few times now but have yet to point out one single thing and try and disprove it with facts.

I never said Alexandria and arias were one and the same. Alexandria had a long history of open mindedness, that was before rome came in, cracked heads and stomped out the idea of people thinking for themselves.

And the formal teaching of the trinity, did you have no response to that one, is that what most of this long winded filibuster was all about, dodging the point?

never heard of it, i would love to see some examples of these churches giving orders for everyone to go out and kill trins. when exactly did this start? the very idea contradicts the facts which show a very, very, very long history in Alexandria of freedom of worship. Jews wrote the LXX there, wrote it in the middle of a very non Jewish community with no fear of persicution. hindus, Celts, Buddhist, etc all came there to discuss ideas and learn from one another. that was the philosophy of Alexandria.

For those that know what they are talking about, continue reading the bible.

Constantine II was an arian but its not likely he had much involvement in religious persicutions. he was only emperor three years and for those three years he was occupied with his invasion of Italy, which he lost.


George would be the last person i would use for an example, he may have been an arian Christian but he was not supported by them, he was hated by most all his subjects, including arians.
most of this fighting had nothing to do with the trinity, it was mostly about the nature of Jesus so its pretty much irreverent.

The Hebrew tells us in Genesis that God is three in one based upon the word used that is translated life.......When God breathes into Adam the breath of life<---this word is actually plural in Hebrew and should be translated LIVES.......Now Hebrew has the following...

a. Singular = one
b. Dual = pair or two
c. Plural = three or more

The word LIVES is plural = three

Spiritual LIFE <-----Holy Spirit
Intellectual LIFE <----Heavenly Father
Physical LIFE<-----Jesus as the SON

MADE in GOD'S image..............

Not to mention all of the other examples in the bible and creation!!

obviously biblical yet some of these statements are very contradicting to the bible.

the Most High is three yet the bible says He is one.

Jesus is the Most High and man. this would mean the Most High is a man, which He says He is not (two or three times) and it would also mean every man is the Most High, i dont think i am the creator of the heavens and the earth.

non trins are cultust if they do not bow down and acknowledge these three persons, just curious where this command is in scripture?



this is an odd one, brought into union with Jesus yet the trinity family says the Father, Son and Spirit make up that family so unless you feel you are one more person in the trinity you are left on the outside looking in.