Trinity haters on CC

[Noose]

He is bodily in the presence of God in heaven now. Do you understand the bodily resurrection?

He sent the Holy Spirit to unite them with himself and to accomplish the Great Commission through them until he returns, then he will take vengeance on his enemies when he returns, including false teachers.

Nope.

John 14:16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be c in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.

1. Jesus doesn't live them as orphans but comes to them shortly
2. The Holy spirit was already living with them and they knew Him
3. Jesus had to go for the HS to come in them

Conclusion

Jesus = Holy spirit

Try again.

 

[garee]

He is bodily in the presence of God in heaven now. Do you understand the bodily resurrection?

He sent the Holy Spirit to unite them with himself and to accomplish the Great Commission through them until he returns, then he will take vengeance on his enemies when he returns, including false teachers.

God is not a man as us (a creation)

John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

This was before he was born when into his corrupted body of death when the idea was developed .Son of God not seen the eternal .

Son of man is used to demonstrate his promise in Isaiah 53. God is not a man as us.

 

[kaylagrl]

I totally agree with that...but the Trinity and the Deity of Christ are not man-made doctrines.

The concept of the Trinity is clearly biblical, and the deity of Christ is biblical too.

Of course, you get the oddballs like KJVers who point out that the word Trinity is not found in Scripture, but their reasoning isn't valid because the concept is Scriptural.

I read the KJV and have no issue with the Trinity.

 

[garee]

Well, who gave you permission to edit the Bible? It says another Advocate, and Jesus refers to this Advocate as "he" in the third person.

Hilarious that you guys have to go modifying the Bible to support your heresies.

Like I've said, you cannot support a heretical, non-Trinitarian view with the Bible.

No modifying is needed...

Sounds like Catholicism making the idea of trinity into a law.

Three does denote the end of the matter. It does not make God into a man.

God is not a man as us and neither is there any fleshly mediator set between him seen and our father in heaven not seen . Jesus as the Son of man refused to stand in the place of a Daysman (Pope) as a infallible umpire.

For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.Job 9:32-33

When called good teaching master (no man can serve two (the Father and the Son) The Son of man in respect to his corrupted flesh refused to be that kind of advocate . But rather giving glory to the unseen holy Place of His father.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

The word good is assigned as the fingerprints of God. Not the literal finger prints of corrupted mankind or DNA You can say trinity but its two attributes of God who is not a man working as one .

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Nope.

John 14:16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be c in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.

1. Jesus doesn't live them as orphans but comes to them shortly
2. The Holy spirit was already living with them and they knew Him
3. Jesus had to go for the HS to come in them

Conclusion

Jesus = Holy spirit

Try again.

Again, this sounds like Oneness theology....Oneness Pentecostalism teaches this sort of thing. I don't even consider them to be Christians.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I read the KJV and have no issue with the Trinity.

Good...it's a bad argument anyways.

 

[Noose]

Again, this sounds like Oneness theology....Oneness Pentecostalism teaches this sort of thing. I don't even consider them to be Christians.

Maybe it is from the scriptures.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

God is not a man as us (a creation)

John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

This was before he was born when into his corrupted body of death when the idea was developed .Son of God not seen the eternal .

Son of man is used to demonstrate his promise in Isaiah 53. God is not a man as us.

Of course, God is not a man....however Jesus is both God and man. He is glorified man as well as God. He has a dual nature.

Regarding Son of Man, this is a reference to the ruler in Dan 7:13-14...it is not necessarily pointing toward his humanity directly. However, it is a reference to the Messiah.

I can't understand some of your remarks..perhaps due to a language barrier.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Maybe it is from the scriptures.

Maybe pigs can fly too..

 

[kaylagrl]

Good...it's a bad argument anyways.

Quite clear in Scripture. Anyone who doesn't accept the divinity of Christ, in my mind, is not a Christian.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Quite clear in Scripture. Anyone who doesn't accept the divinity of Christ, in my mind, is not a Christian.

The deity of Christ was under attack from the very beginning. Here is an interesting summary from Got Questions on Arianism:

Question: "What is Arianism?"

Answer: Arianism is a heresy named for Arius, a priest and false teacher in the early fourth century AD in Alexandria, Egypt. One of the earliest and probably the most important item of debate among early Christians was the subject of Christ’s deity. Was Jesus truly God in the flesh, or was Jesus a created being? Was Jesus God or not? Arius denied the deity of the Son of God, holding that Jesus was created by God as the first act of creation and that the nature of Christ was anomoios (“unlike”) that of God the Father. Arianism, then, is the view that Jesus is a finite created being with some divine attributes, but He is not eternal and not divine in and of Himself.

Arianism misunderstands biblical references to Jesus’ being tired (John 4:6) and not knowing the date of His return (Matthew 24:36). It may be difficult to understand how God could be tired or not know something, but these verses speak of Jesus’ human nature. Jesus is fully God, but He is also fully human. The Son of God did not become a human being until a specific point of time we call the Incarnation. Therefore, Jesus’ limitations as a human being have no impact on His divine nature or His eternality.

A second major misinterpretation in Arianism concerns the meaning of firstborn as applied to Christ. Romans 8:29 speaks of Christ as “the firstborn among many brothers and sisters” (see also Colossians 1:15–20). Arians understand firstborn in these verses to mean that the Son of God was “created” as the first act of creation. This is not the case. Jesus Himself proclaimed His self-existence and eternality (John 8:58; 10:30). In Bible times, the firstborn son of a family was held in great honor (Genesis 49:3; Exodus 11:5; 34:19; Numbers 3:40; Psalm 89:27;Jeremiah 31:9). It is in this sense that Jesus is God’s “firstborn.” Jesus is the preeminent Person in God’s plan and the Heir of all things (Hebrews 1:2). Jesus is the “Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6).

After nearly a century of debate at various early church councils, the Christian church officially denounced Arianism as a false doctrine. Since that time, Arianism has never been accepted as a viable doctrine of the Christian faith. Arianism has not died out, however. Arianism has continued through the centuries in varying forms. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons of today hold a very Arian-like position on Christ’s nature. Following the example of the early church, we must denounce any and all attacks on the deity of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

https://www.gotquestions.org/arianism.html

 

[garee]

This is Oneness heresy.

Even they aren't that heretical, though, because they believe Jesus was a man during the Incarnation.

Jesus is truly glorified man and truly God. That is why he is able to be the Messiah and to rule here on earth when he returns.

Those who deny Jesus' true humanity are as bad as those who deny his true deity.

Jesus' true humanity is he was human living in corrupted flesh .No power to resurrect.

The Son of God as fully God Eternal Spirit and the Son of man. Man Jesus

God is not according to the flesh a creation.

Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Grace is not reckoned to the flesh. No need to walk by faith the unseen eternal

 

[garee]

This is Oneness heresy.

Even they aren't that heretical, though, because they believe Jesus was a man during the Incarnation.

Jesus is truly glorified man and truly God. That is why he is able to be the Messiah and to rule here on earth when he returns.

Those who deny Jesus' true humanity are as bad as those who deny his true deity.

How long is henthforth we know Christ after the corrupted flesh? Quite clear in Scripture.

Anyone who doesn't accept the divinity of Christ, in my mind is threading on thin ice. The idea of knowing divinity after what the eyes see, has broken through the ice. Even the Son of man Jesus would not stand in the holy unseen place of the father. That's the place the Pope for one stands proudly.. When we think of divine divinity a blank picture should come up . The Son of man did have form.no divinity reckoned to the flesh

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 80 -
80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, (second in order) then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal." Each of them makes present and fruitful ..

The flesh of men do not become gods that have no beginning. God is simply not a man as us.

 

[dcontroversal]

Believing Jesus is God in the flesh is “must believe “. Denying that disqualifies someone being a Christian

AMEN...John was clear when it comes to those that deny he came in the flesh........and what they are, or who leads them........

 

[jaybird88]

And, by the way, are you aware of the evil acts of Arians? Since your theology seems to be in line with Arianism, are you willing to take responsibility for the actions of Arians in history?
?

im not aware of any Arian or non trin church giving orders to kill other Christians because they were trins. can you explain that one? i hope your not going with the vandels sacking north Africa.

 

[jaybird88]

I totally agree with that...but the Trinity and the Deity of Christ are not man-made doctrines.

The concept of the Trinity is clearly biblical, and the deity of Christ is biblical too.

Of course, you get the oddballs like KJVers who point out that the word Trinity is not found in Scripture, but their reasoning isn't valid because the concept is Scriptural.

they are manmade doctrines, thats what a doctrine is, this is why we dont have a doctrine on dont murder, its an actual command given in scripture.
there is a difference in something that is biblical and something that is based on the bible. back when the church taught the sun revolved around the earth, that was based on the bible, yet they were wrong, the bible was not wrong but mans interpretation was wrong.
any respected bible academic or bible encyclopedia will tell you that there is no formal teaching on it, that means there is no passage where Jesus gathers the 12 around Him and says "today I am going to teach you on the three natures/persons/beings of the Father . . ." if there were such a passage there would have been no need for all those councils coming together in rome and establishing something that was clear and easy to understand. it also took a very long time for this doctrine to be established. the process began in the late 300s but i dont think it was enforced in the churches until the 600s.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus = Holy spirit

This is COMPLETE NONSENSE. Why don't you try again.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This was before he was born when into his corrupted body of death when the idea was developed .Son of God not seen the eternal .

garee, you seem to be a little confused about the Son of God.

1. The ETERNAL Son of God existed as the Logos (the Word) from eternity past with the Father and the Holy Spirit -- whose goings forth have been from of old, even from everlasting.(see Micah 5:2)

2. When Christ was incarnated (or born of the virgin Mary), He DID NOT have a *corrupted body of death*. He was born as sinless Man as well as fully God. Had He had even the slightest taint of corruption, He could not have paid for your sins. And had Jesus not gone to the cross willingly and voluntarily, He need not have died.

3. Christ DID NOT become the Son of God at His birth. He did become the son of Mary (and was also regarded as the son of Joseph by the Jews, Joseph being his foster father).

4. But Mary did not become *the Mother of God* at that point, since that would mean that she was the mother of the Godhead. That title is not given to her in Scripture. It is the Orthodox and the Catholic who gave her that title, and eventually made her Queen of Heaven.

 

[jaybird88]

garee, you seem to be a little confused about the Son of God.

1. The ETERNAL Son of God existed as the Logos (the Word) from eternity past with the Father and the Holy Spirit -- whose goings forth have been from of old, even from everlasting.(see Micah 5:2)

2. When Christ was incarnated (or born of the virgin Mary), He DID NOT have a *corrupted body of death*. He was born as sinless Man as well as fully God. Had He had even the slightest taint of corruption, He could not have paid for your sins. And had Jesus not gone to the cross willingly and voluntarily, He need not have died.

3. Christ DID NOT become the Son of God at His birth. He did become the son of Mary (and was also regarded as the son of Joseph by the Jews, Joseph being his foster father).

4. But Mary did not become *the Mother of God* at that point, since that would mean that she was the mother of the Godhead. That title is not given to her in Scripture. It is the Orthodox and the Catholic who gave her that title, and eventually made her Queen of Heaven.

the sinless body has always been hard for me to understand. wouldnt that be an unfair advantage? how am i supposed to follow the example of Jesus, the perfect example, when He has the sinless body and i have the sinful body?

 

[Nehemiah6]

the sinless body has always been hard for me to understand. wouldnt that be an unfair advantage? how am i supposed to follow the example of Jesus, the perfect example, when He has the sinless body and i have the sinful body?

You've hit the nail of the head. Jesus did have an *unfair advantage* over the rest of humanity. He had a sinless body and He need never have died.

But you can follow His perfect example by the power of the Holy Spirit, and you can also VOLUNTARILY offer yourself as a martyr (like the apostles), if the Holy Spirit is within and if the need arises.