Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

I see what you’re saying. I’ll think on your viewpoint more today.
I read that and see ‘one cannot he born again since they, those being addressed, already are’; 6 starts with a conjunction and those in 5:11-14 are true believers, however, are mere infants on milk just like the Corinthians.

How can one come to repentance and ask for the free gift if one had already repented and taken the gift? Its impossible for them to come back to repentance and seek the gift which was already given.

By me, having been truly converted prior, willfully sinning was I not “crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace”?
What if one continues even if the Holy Spirit tells them its wrong?
Does God take that lightly or ignore it?

Why doesn’t 1 John 2:19 use that term (Parapiptó)? I agree those described in 1 John 2:19 were not true converts to begin with

We must abide in the vine. Abiding is not a work.

John
15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.

The Scripture is crystal clear on the matter. Take it or leave it. Leaving it = eternal damnation...

Hebrews
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
10:33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

I see what you’re saying. I’ll think on your viewpoint more today.
I read that and see ‘one cannot he born again since they, those being addressed, already are’; 6 starts with a conjunction and those in 5:11-14 are true believers, however, are mere infants on milk just like the Corinthians.

How can one come to repentance and ask for the free gift if one had already repented and taken the gift? Its impossible for them to come back to repentance and seek the gift which was already given.

Why doesn’t 1 John 2:19 use that term (Parapiptó)? I agree those described in 1 John 2:19 were not true converts to begin with

So if your doing it of your own power. Its not work? Since when?

You work for a wage,

A gift is freely given.

If your doing all the work to get or keep your salvation. it is works. Period!

We must abide in the vine. Abiding is not a work.

John
15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.

Overall, I just wanted to add something to what I said earlier, that if you're walking in perseverance and Holiness, confessing sin and in right standing with Christ, you shouldn't have to worry about the question of whether you can lose your salvation. But I also refuse to walk around in fear that if I do something, I will be condemned. This is something I tend to struggle with a lot. I think the right way to view this is to believe that if I mess up, I come back to Christ, make right with Him and move on. I don't allow sin to govern the way I think and act. Its something I need to remind myself of every day.

Then it is not a gift, It is a reward, or wage for our ability to remain in faith. Thus it is not of grace. It is of works.

Hey, oyster67 are you "doing it of your own power"?

People reverse Salvation way too much :0

People reverse Salvation way too much :0

I believe the Bible is clear enough on this issue.

"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" 2 Timothy 2:12 KJV

What part of this Verse do you not understand? I myself am 100 %ly sure that salvation loss is possible.

Do you consider having faith as a work? Surely you must believe that faith is necessary for salvation? And not just a one time confession, but a way of life. Jesus shed His blood, however in order to receive the promise of salvation and eternal life, it requires having faith in Him. As His word says "Whoever has the Son has life. But whoever does not have the Son does not have life." In other words, it is not a blanket salvation where everyone is just saved whether they believe or not. It requires faith to receive the promises.

Apply was you said above to the characteristics of the scripture below:

==============================================================
Because of this, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlements, a debtor was brought to him owing ten thousand talents.e 25Since the man was unable to pay, the master ordered that he be sold to pay his debt, along with his wife and children and everything he owned.

26Then the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Have patience with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’

27His master had compassion on him, forgave his debt, and released him.

28But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.f He grabbed him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe me.’

29So his fellow servant fell down and begged him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you back.’

30But he refused. Instead, he went and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay his debt.

31When his fellow servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed, and they went and recounted all of this to their master.

32Then the master summoned him and declared, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave all your debt because you begged me. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

35That is how My Heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”
===============================================================

In the parable above the king represents the Lord, the servant represents the believer and the debt that he owed represents our sin. The servant is forgiven for all his debt, but he was unwilling to forgive another servant his debt. So, he was initially forgiven for his debt/sin, but then because he would not forgive his fellow servant, the debt was reinstated.

Do you consider having faith as a work? Surely you must believe that faith is necessary for salvation? And not just a one time confession, but a way of life. Jesus shed His blood, however in order to receive the promise of salvation and eternal life, it requires having faith in Him. As His word says "Whoever has the Son has life. But whoever does not have the Son does not have life." In other words, it is not a blanket salvation where everyone is just saved whether they believe or not. It requires faith to receive the promises.



Apply was you said above to the characteristics of the scripture below:

==============================================================
Because of this, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlements, a debtor was brought to him owing ten thousand talents.e 25Since the man was unable to pay, the master ordered that he be sold to pay his debt, along with his wife and children and everything he owned.

26Then the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Have patience with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’

27His master had compassion on him, forgave his debt, and released him.

28But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.f He grabbed him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe me.’

29So his fellow servant fell down and begged him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you back.’

30But he refused. Instead, he went and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay his debt.

31When his fellow servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed, and they went and recounted all of this to their master.

32Then the master summoned him and declared, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave all your debt because you begged me. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

35That is how My Heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”
===============================================================

In the parable above the king represents the Lord, the servant represents the believer and the debt that he owed represents our sin. The servant is forgiven for all his debt, but he was unwilling to forgive another servant his debt. So, he was initially forgiven for his debt/sin, but then because he would not forgive his fellow servant, the debt was reinstated.